Why do really expensive scopes sell and what attracts us to them ?

[Andrew_B]

2 hours ago, johninderby said:

There are many fine scopes that you never seem to hear much about in the UK. Has anybody actually used a Planewave? One of the unaffordable scopes I would like to own. 😢

https://astrograph.net/epages/www_astrograph_net.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/www_astrograph_net/Categories/Shop/"Telescopes %26 Binoculars"/Corrected_Dall_Kirkham

Planewave, Officina Stellare and various others seem to make a lot of scopes aimed at the professional end of the market such as tracking objects in orbit or for defence applications where spending $50k+ each on a few scopes is pocket change. I suspect that's where most of their business comes from because there surely can't be that many wealthy amateurs who can afford to spend that kind of money.

[johninderby]

Ah Officina Stellare. Back when they were called A&M I had one of their 80mm refractors. Wish I had lept it as it was the best 80mm I have ever looked through. 😢

[LDW1]

Over time I read so much about the overall quality and performance of the Televue NP101 that I searched high and low for one over a number of years, up here in Canada.  Finally I advertised for one and was offered a 2003 model in excellent shape so I drove 200 mi. south and picked it up personally.  My thoughts didn't let me down, its performance level is beyond question on those dark, clear nites. I wish everyone could experience it.  I guess when you are obsessed your obsessed, lol ?  PS:  Now I have to get rid of several of my refractors, I have too many (10), lol.

Edited November 28, 2021 by LDW1

[John]

1 minute ago, LDW1 said:

Over time I read so much about the overall quality and performance of the Televue NP101 that I searched high and low for one over a number of years, up here in Canada.  Finally I advertised for one and was offered a 2003 model in excellent shape so I drove 200 mi. south and picked it up personally.  My thoughts didn't let me down, its performance level is beyond question on those dark, clear nites. I wish everyone could experience it.  I guess when you are obsessed our obsessed, lol ?  PS:  Now I have to get rid of several of my refractors, I have too many (10), lol.

Great looking setup

That also demonstrates that quality lasts undiminished over the years. My 102 Vixen refractor is 20+ years old now and my 130mm 15+ years old and both perform just as well as when they were made I'm sure

 

 

[Franklin]

I've just picked up a 17 year old FS-78 and although I haven't had it under the stars yet, I have been testing it on terrestial targets. A line of street lamps at night about 1/2 a mile away. Compared to what my Vixen A80M shows and the 102ED(FPL-51), this old Tak looks like it's going to be superb. Absolutely zero CA around the bright lights and crisp detail of ice crystals forming up the lamp post, it's like I was viewing in HD. The reason I decided to spend my money on this used scope rather than a brand new SD81S was mainly due to the excellent reviews on the FS-78 that I've been reading online.

[JeremyS]

1 minute ago, Franklin said:

I've just picked up a 17 year old FS-78 and although I haven't had it under the stars yet, I have been testing it on terrestial targets. A line of street lamps at night about 1/2 a mile away. Compared to what my Vixen A80M shows and the 102ED(FPL-51), this old Tak looks like it's going to be superb. Absolutely zero CA around the bright lights and crisp detail of ice crystals forming up the lamp post, it's like I was viewing in HD. The reason I decided to spend my money on this used scope rather than a brand new SD81S was mainly due to the excellent reviews on the FS-78 that I've been reading online.

The fluorite lens will be a beauty. Love my FS 102.

[Franklin]

Just now, JeremyS said:

The fluorite lens will be a beauty. Love my FS 102.

What's the advice on solar viewing with these front fluorite element scopes? Is there any need for concern? I use a Lunt wedge rather than a full aperture filter.

[JeremyS]

8 minutes ago, Franklin said:

What's the advice on solar viewing with these front fluorite element scopes? Is there any need for concern? I use a Lunt wedge rather than a full aperture filter.

No special issues with it being fluorite. Same precautions as with any lens.

[jetstream]

One look through a large nicely spec'd set of mirrors in a dob will convince many of the merits of good glass. Good glass is consistently found in expensive scopes and more hit and miss with less expensive ones IMHO.

Many high end refractor owners, who also own good spec large dobs prefer the latter on DSO but notably on the moon and planets.

In general, expensive scopes offer consistently good glass and a vg build quality.

Edited November 28, 2021 by jetstream

[Alan White]

On 27/11/2021 at 19:58, ollypenrice said:

There's a big difference between a daughter and a telescope...

lly

Taken out of context to your comment Olly and the Reason posted by Jeremy, but.

Daughters are far more expensive than telescopes is all I would add.

And congratulations on a forthcoming family wedding Jeremy.

 

 

[John]

1 hour ago, Franklin said:

What's the advice on solar viewing with these front fluorite element scopes? Is there any need for concern? I use a Lunt wedge rather than a full aperture filter.

I've used my FC100-DL with a Lunt Wedge. It works very well.

[Alan White]

In answer to the threads initial asking,

I base my purchases upon availble budget, the use I expect to give something and build quality.
My cars reflect this as they are moderate priced small ones from main stream makers.

This drove my choice of a 4" Refractor on all 3 counts and the seeing conditions I often experience.

My present Vixen was a step up in build quality and slight improvement over my 4" SW Pro, but it was mainly driven by
me thinking it would change the experience, it has, I enjoy the super r&p focuser, the solid build and 
my pleasure in just owning it. 

I often look at bigger refractors, but as a passing fancy, not a serious itch.

Anyone buying more expensive kit, good luck to you if it fits your budget,
But did it give you the most excitement, or was that from your budget first scope and alook at now familiar targets?

I am a visual astronomer, not an imager by the way, that also is an influence for some.

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Alan White
typos of course

[Sunshine]

6 hours ago, LDW1 said:

Over time I read so much about the overall quality and performance of the Televue NP101 that I searched high and low for one over a number of years, up here in Canada.  Finally I advertised for one and was offered a 2003 model in excellent shape so I drove 200 mi. south and picked it up personally.  My thoughts didn't let me down, its performance level is beyond question on those dark, clear nites. I wish everyone could experience it.  I guess when you are obsessed your obsessed, lol ?  PS:  Now I have to get rid of several of my refractors, I have too many (10), lol.

That is a beautiful lifetime scope, 200 miles is a breeze considering the pot of gold at the end, enjoy it and ten refractors? if only I had compound eyes.

[John]

29 minutes ago, Alan White said:

.....But did it give you the most excitement, or was that from your budget first scope and alook at now familiar targets?

 

Now that is another  very interesting topic in it's own right

 

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by John

[Sunshine]

31 minutes ago, John said:

Now that is another  very interesting topic in it's own right

 

 

Ypur first scope to show you wonders up above cannot be topped by another, not from a technical spec POV of course but when it comes to excitement of discovering POV  sees Saturn for the first time only once.

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

32 minutes ago, John said:

Now that is another  very interesting topic in it's own right

 

 

My common as muck 130P almost had me in tears the first time I observed Jupiter through it and the tears were nothing to do with chinese mirror quality, poor collimation or short eye relief! 

[John]

I suppose it depends where the expense in the expensive scope goes. It it is towards aperture (more than you currently have) then there is a good chance that you will a) see improvements in  sharpness /detail / contrast in familiar targets and, b) see some things that you have not been able to see thus far.

If the expense goes towards better optical performance (but no increase in aperture, maybe even a reduction) you will hopefully get most of a) above but probably not much of b).

That seems to match my experiences to date anyway.

I'm sure others will have different experiences to mine though 

[Concordia000]

1 hour ago, Sunshine said:

Ypur first scope to show you wonders up above cannot be topped by another, not from a technical spec POV of course but when it comes to excitement of discovering POV  sees Saturn for the first time only once.

For me it was definitely topped by views I’ve gotten in my APOs lately — well thanks to me coming back to astronomy after a hiatus I guess.

I guess another part was that my first view through a telescope was through a telescope that I came to hate (130mm newt on an EQ-2 mount…). Sure it was extremely impressive seeing through it the first time, but my APOs gave me bigger wows.

[Concordia000]

1 hour ago, John said:

I suppose it depends where the expense in the expensive scope goes. It it is towards aperture (more than you currently have) then there is a good chance that you will a) see improvements in  sharpness /detail / contrast in familiar targets and, b) see some things that you have not been able to see thus far.

If the expense goes towards better optical performance (but no increase in aperture, maybe even a reduction) you will hopefully get most of a) above but probably not much of b).

That seems to match my experiences to date anyway.

I'm sure others will have different experiences to mine though 

Money going toward mechanical performance is probably more satisfying than either though. Especially in mounts and/or going from *really* cheap scopes to cheap, but capable scopes.

An example would be like going from an 130mm EQ-2 to an 130PDS with upgrade focuser and an EQ-3-2. Suddenly you go from focuser slop and shaky mount to something actually quite decent.

[Rusted]

5 hours ago, Concordia000 said:

Money going toward mechanical performance is probably more satisfying than either though. Especially in mounts and/or going from *really* cheap scopes to cheap, but capable scopes.

An example would be like going from an 130mm EQ-2 to an 130PDS with upgrade focuser and an EQ-3-2. Suddenly you go from focuser slop and shaky mount to something actually quite decent.

The mounting makes or breaks a telescope's performance. Imagine using a long DSLR telephoto lens without image stabilization.
Larger, longer and heavier instruments are incredibly poorly served for those without the cash for a decent, secondhand car.
The problem is that this prices such instruments beyond reach. So those seeking improvement in performance bet on a smaller, "quality" scope.
Because one manufacturer charges 10k for their mount every other mount slides inexorably upwards in price. 
Tripods are no more adequate to the task today than they ever were. A tripod is a severe physical handicap.
Properly designed piers are a step in the right direction but obscenely overpriced for what [little] they are in materials and engineering.
 

[900SL]

It will be interesting to see how active electronics on sensors develop in astrophotography. Also on mounts with encoder technology trickling down.  

Guided sensors? Curved adjustable field sensors? Controllable filter layers baked into the sensor? Continual improvements in ISO, noise, QE are a given.

 

[tomato]

I am driven by the performance/value every time, so Mesu mount instead of 10 Micron, Esprits rather than Taks. I have recently gone a step further on cameras, purchasing a ‘cheap’ IMX571 camera direct from a non mainstream Chinese supplier, rather than a Atik/ZWO/QHY option. 
 

But if possible, I do like my kit to look the part, which is entirely a personal taste thing. Take a look at these scopes, the first one makes me go “Phoar!” the second makes me think it would be at home on the end of a seaside pier. Totally irrational.

[Macavity]

A Cloudy Nights Newbie once asked for advice on a "No expense spared" Scope.
He didn't want to "waste his time"... with any "second rate" stuff? His tagline:
"I like my cars Fast..  and my Women Faster"! Am I missing out? 🤣

Edited November 29, 2021 by Macavity

[Sunshine]

47 minutes ago, Macavity said:

A Cloudy Nights Newbie once asked for advice on a "No expense spared" Scope.
He didn't want to "waste his time"... with any "second rate" stuff? His tagline:
"I like my cars Fast..  and my Women Faster"! Am I missing out? 🤣

lol, I recall working in a scope shop in my teens when a young, wealthy man came in and insisted on the most expensive scope, I sold him the 12" LX200 we had in stock. With it I sold him every acssesory

we possibly had including several TV eyepieces and a wedge to boot. Even vibration pads, when I say wealthy I mean stinking,  I made commission and he kept asking for whatever we had. When I rolled all of this out to his car on a dolly he quickly realized this would not fit in his Ferarri and had a friend pick it up for him. This scope he explained was for display  and occasional use when he had company to impress at his cottage because he saw a movie where a chap had a beautiful scope on display in his cottage and he liked the idea. One week later he called me at the shop asking if I could remind him where the eyepieces went. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Sunshine

[Ags]

Like working in a bookshop and someone comes in asking for 1.5 meters of books with red spines - for their interior decor!