Taks - worth the premium over other brands?

[paulastro]

It's often the case that folks who spend a lot of money on a scope (for example over £2500 for a 100mm doublet apo beginning with the letter 'T' ) feel the need to repeatedly post how great it is. 

Perhaps they feel the need to re-assure themselves they were right in not having bought a scope nearly as good for less than half the price. 🙂

[JeremyS]

12 minutes ago, paulastro said:

It's often the case that folks who spend a lot of money on a scope (for example over £2500 for a 100mm doublet apo beginning with the letter 'T' ) feel the need to repeatedly post how great it is. 

Perhaps they feel the need to re-assure themselves they were right in not having bought a scope nearly as good for less than half the price. 🙂

You may well be onto something there, Paul. Not sure about reassurance, but happiness is not being tormented by our thoughts and emotions 😊

I guess it comes down to the appeal of “nearly as good”.

Edited May 4, 2021 by JeremyS

[Deadlake]

8 minutes ago, paulastro said:

It's often the case that folks who spend a lot of money on a scope (for example over £2500 for a 100mm doublet apo beginning with the letter 'T' ) feel the need to repeatedly post how great it is. 

Perhaps they feel the need to re-assure themselves they were right in not having bought a scope nearly as good for less than half the price. 🙂

Are you suggesting Takahashi owners are insecure and need to get help 😉

Maybe the fumes of the green paint. 😆

At the end of the day this thread is just about a buyer's opinion on the value of buying a premium refractor.

[John]

34 minutes ago, Marki said:

In the interest of full disclosre I don't own a Tak, so my opinion as a lowly APM LZOS owner may be irrelevant ;).

I've owned a Tak and a TMB / LZOS for the past 5 years. They are very much in the same league IMHO.

To my observing eye the 130mm LZOS delivers very similar optical performance characteristics to the 100mm Tak but with the additional "punch" that you would expect from 30% more aperture.

What has been a (pleasant) surprise is that my Skywatcher ED120 has not been significantly outclassed by either of them. Maybe my ED120 is a particularly good one ?

I've enjoyed using the premium refractors but as I posted earlier in this thread, they have not really revolutionised the hobby for me or anything like that. They are just nice to own and use and probably at or close to the best optical performance that their respective apertures can deliver.

I have no idea what formula you could use to determine whether any performance differences are worth a particular price difference though

What I suppose is reassuring in one sense is that had I not been in a position to own and use these expensive instruments, I now realise my enjoyment of the hobby of astronomy would not have suffered particularly. But without trying them for myself for some time, I might not have known that, and that's the "catch 22"

We probably ought to be thankful both for premium brands for continuing to make very high quality instruments available for those to want and can afford them AND to manufacturers such as Synta, GSO, etc who make really good quality instruments available that are accessible to many more people.

 

 

 

 

[Ken82]

As Olly has already mentioned if you’re using a 43mm diagonal sensor then there isn’t much that competes with the fsq. So from that perspective it was worth it for me. 
 

For visual use I cannot comment but I’d expect takahashi scopes to be similar to most other higher end scopes, Borg etc. Considering the glass is also made by canon.

oh and tak focusers can be awful ! I have first hand experience of that ☹️ 
 

Ken 

[JeremyS]

It was living in Singapore during the 2003 perihelic opposition of Mars that showed me the benefit iPod high end optics. Tak refractors and Mewlon, and Pentax fracs, were common there, especially FS 102s. Looking through friends’ scopes convinced me how good they are. I soon bought my own FS 102 and my C8 hardly got  any use after that (I also has a Pentax 75 SDHF for travel). I suspect this was before Chinese fracs became common ; in any case quality Japanese optics is what the locals were after. There were a few Borgs,  buy they weren’t so popular as the mechanicals weren’t so good - I had a Borg 125 for a brief period but soon sold it on.

[jetstream]

41 minutes ago, John said:

What has been a (pleasant) surprise is that my Skywatcher ED120 has not been significantly outclassed by either of them.

I wonder why you keep so much money tied up in your 2 premium scopes then?

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, paulastro said:

Perhaps they feel the need to re-assure themselves they were right in not having bought a scope nearly as good for less than half the price.

 

1 hour ago, JeremyS said:

I guess it comes down to the appeal of “nearly as good”.

This ^^^

[scotty38]

Always for me it's want versus need. If anyone tells me they "need" a Rolex I could argue against it all day long, 50p digital from the garage etc etc BUT tell me you "want" one and it's game over I can't argue with that.

Same here too although I wouldn't have the ammunition to argue against needing a Tak but for anyone that just wants one then fair play....

[paulastro]

1 hour ago, Deadlake said:

Are you suggesting Takahashi owners are insecure and need to get help 😉

 

Perish the thought 🙂.

[John]

40 minutes ago, jetstream said:

I wonder why you keep so much money tied up in your 2 premium scopes then?

As I said, I enjoy owning and using them. Plus I've no other plans that need funding currently so I might as well hang onto them.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by John

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, Deadlake said:

Are you suggesting Takahashi owners are insecure and need to get help 

I'm not so sure its the Takahashi owners that are insecure 😀

Edited May 4, 2021 by jetstream

[Deadlake]

6 minutes ago, jetstream said:

I'm not so sure its the Takahashi owners that are insecure 😀

We could ask some AP, LZOS or Baader owners if they are insecure too??? 😉

[jetstream]

Just now, Deadlake said:

We could ask some AP, LZOS or Baader owners if they are insecure too???

Or heaven forbid Skywatcher owners, Stella owners etc?😀

[Rusted]

Justification is a hard taskmaster and comparisons are odious.

The crispness and purity of colour through the finest optics is best enjoyed frequently.
So that the premium price begins to assume some semblance of normalcy.
When gently stretched and smeared by time devaluation.

We must hope that our expectations never disappoint on specific targets.
Nor, that we are ever granted access to something larger and even finer.
Our modest shrines to capitalism are soon tarnished by human frailty.

I am reminded of "high end" hifi rooms at electronics shows.
Where one can never hear the music. For raised voices arguing over subjective quality.
I soon left the room.  Because I had heard real music beating its hypnotic drum.
Being played by quite a modest set-up in the hotel corridor.
Where there were always free seats. And my usually leaden foot, never stopped tapping.

[mikeDnight]

No insecurity here I'm happy to say! I'm very content viewing through my 100mm Tak, and rarely get the urge to peer through other scopes, unless they are refractors. There are many great refractors that compete favourably with Takahashi these days at a fraction of the price, and I love observing with them all. But Tak still set the standard for top tier refractor optics that others desire to attain. As regards the extortionate high price of a Tak, an FC100DF costs around £6 per day over the first year. As the years fly by the Tak price pales into insignificance. Tak are as cheap as chips when viewed as a lifetime investment. 

[Deadlake]

7 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

 An FC100DF costs around £6 per day over the first year. As the years fly by the Tak price pales into insignificance. 

Until the 100DF mark II comes out and your mate tells you he is going to buy one...😉

Edited May 4, 2021 by Deadlake

[paulastro]

10 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

Tak are as cheap as chips when viewed as a lifetime investment. 

I'm afraid I've reached the age when buying something as a lifetime investment may not be good value for money 🙂.

PS Life is still good though, I get my free bus pass and state pension this month! 😄

Edited May 4, 2021 by paulastro

[Stu]

7 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

Until the 100DF mark II comes out and your mate tells you he is going to buy one...😉

It did...... the DZ! And Mike bought one 👍👍😀😀

[paulastro]

1 minute ago, Stu said:

It did...... the DZ! And Mike bought one 👍👍😀😀

Ah, there is the DZ Mk11 due out any time now though!  I'm sure I can get Mike to buy that too - and give me a huge discount when I buy the Mk1 from him 😁.

[JeremyS]

56 minutes ago, Rusted said:

Justification is a hard taskmaster and comparisons are odious.

The crispness and purity of colour through the finest optics is best enjoyed frequently.
So that the premium price begins to assume some semblance of normalcy.
When gently stretched and smeared by time devaluation.

We must hope that our expectations never disappoint on specific targets.
Nor, that we are ever granted access to something larger and even finer.
Our modest shrines to capitalism are soon tarnished by human frailty.

I am reminded of "high end" hifi rooms at electronics shows.
Where one can never hear the music. For raised voices arguing over subjective quality.
I soon left the room.  Because I had heard real music beating its hypnotic drum.
Being played by quite a modest set-up in the hotel corridor.
Where there were always free seats. And my usually leaden foot, never stopped tapping.

Pardon? 👂

 

🤣

[John]

There are far graver things in this world currently to feel insecure about than telescopes for goodness sake

I knew that I'd regret posting in this thread again.

 

[johninderby]

Why does this thread remind me of this? 🤔😁😁😁

[jetstream]

16 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Pardon? 👂

 

🤣

lol!

still laughing

[jetstream]

21 minutes ago, paulastro said:

and give me a huge discount when I buy the Mk1 from him 😁.

😲

but why would you want one?

I knew it,.....