Taks - worth the premium over other brands?

[Deadlake]

22 hours ago, jetstream said:

My SW 120ED will go 350x on the moon and then breaks down- I have not reached image breakdown over 700x with my TSA120. Not sure of the exact mag as I barlow the Vixen HR2.4mm but I'm thinking about 750x sounds right give or take (field stop location).

The build quality is excellent as is the stock focuser, once learning how to adjust it- zero image shift.

So to me yes its worth it.

ps the transmission this scope has is extremely good and proven on very faint nebula.

How much does the weight different between the SW120ED and TSA120 (which is the lightest 120mm APO I can think off) make a difference to which one to use?
One thing about either the of the Japanese brands Takahashi or Vixen is there are lighter than other brands. 

[jetstream]

2 hours ago, Deadlake said:

How much does the weight different between the SW120ED and TSA120 (which is the lightest 120mm APO I can think off) make a difference to which one to use?
One thing about either the of the Japanese brands Takahashi or Vixen is there are lighter than other brands. 

Well the TSA120 ota is a bit heavier-but- I cheat when mounting it. With the rings and dovetail the SW120ED is really close to the bare TSA120 ota.

So, about my cheating... I mount the superb Tak clamshell with the ADM Losmandy plate on the mount first and open the clamshell. I then put the TSA120 in the clamshell and close it- super easy for me even now. I didnt get the TOA130 because of its weight, about 27lbs.

The Tak 120 is easier to use with its clamshell than the SW120ED and Vixen dovetail-but- this is just my opinion. There is night and day build quality between the 2 scopes.

[Deadlake]

1 hour ago, jetstream said:

Well the TSA120 ota is a bit heavier-but- I cheat when mounting it. With the rings and dovetail the SW120ED is really close to the bare TSA120 ota.

So, about my cheating... I mount the superb Tak clamshell with the ADM Losmandy plate on the mount first and open the clamshell. I then put the TSA120 in the clamshell and close it- super easy for me even now. I didnt get the TOA130 because of its weight, about 27lbs.

The Tak 120 is easier to use with its clamshell than the SW120ED and Vixen dovetail-but- this is just my opinion. There is night and day build quality between the 2 scopes.

The TOA-130 takes an age to cool down for maybe some of the best views, excellent colour correction. And it's super heavy, so you would not be carrying that across a farm in case of a slip up... 😀

This thread comes down to are you prepared to pay a premium for a 10% performance delta or need high magnification. 

Actually as noted the premium APO's can provide a larger magnification, but at the same time cannot overcome aperture for limiting magnitude of whats viewable.  

All have trade offs.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Deadlake

[jetstream]

59 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

Actually as noted the premium APO's can provide a larger magnification, but at the same time cannot overcome aperture for limiting magnitude of whats viewable.  

I gotta tell ya, I'm very content with the TSA120- I was looking at TEC140s, TOA130 LZOS ,AP130and big 150mm fracs. The desire is not gone for one of these scopes but greatly diminished. I am looking at a Mew180c seriously however.

[Adam J]

On 25/04/2021 at 16:05, jock1958 said:

Cant comment on the Esprit 80 or 100 as I've never owned or looked through one, also my experience is limited compared to some of our esteemed SGL members but was looking at upgrading my Tal 100rs.  When I reached the big 60 I decided that was a good enough reason and bought a Tak FC-100DL mainly from the positive recommendations on this forum.  Do I regret shelling out approx £2.5k....absolutely not, IMO It is a masterpiece of engineering, exquisite to look at and has given me the best views of the heavens so far! 

 

If you "looking" through an esprit I personally think you got the wrong scope. 

[JeremyS]

19 hours ago, Adam J said:

If you "looking" through an esprit I personally think you got the wrong scope. 

Especially if it’s -10 C 

🤣

[Deadlake]

21 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Especially if it’s -10 C 

🤣

I know some who looks through his TSA-120 at -25 oC and he doesn’t complain about wonky stars….

[jetstream]

3 hours ago, Deadlake said:

I know some who looks through his TSA-120 at -25 oC and he doesn’t complain about wonky stars….

All the way down to -39c if we want to be accurate 😀 The AZEQ6 cables are useless and fragile in this weather but I can use it in manual mode. And yes, I've never encountered poor stars or astigmatism, or pinched optics in my TSA120.

It not only has great optics - it is also a very tough scope, focuser included.

[Adam J]

4 hours ago, JeremyS said:

Especially if it’s -10 C 

🤣

Not something I will ever worry about in the UK, the last time it got to -10c down my way was the winter of 2010.

But my comment was more about the Esprit 100 and 80 being optomised for imaging as opposed to visual, the 120 and 150 are a different story.

On the subject of TAK scopes being worth the premium, I would go with that Olly said earlier.

Adam

[Robindonne]

When you have a gathering in the UK this year or next, please try to find a test panel/person who rates the views through taks and some more recent models of technosky and 120ed’s.  But blindfolded!   Will the tak really win?😬🙂

[rkelley8493]

The smaller Fluorite models make one heck of a grab & go 

[Robindonne]

They explain how to read a diagram and indeed explain a bit why the Takahashi is a better choice than e.g. the celestron astromaster 130eq.

[Mr Spock]

The law of diminishing returns means they are never going to be good value. That, however, does not mean they aren't desirable.

I do believe some scope owners suffer from expectation bias. Though I'm not sure how you would eliminate that with blind testing 🤣

[dweller25]

7 hours ago, Robindonne said:

When you have a gathering in the UK this year or next, please try to find a test panel/person who rates the views through taks and some more recent models of technosky and 120ed’s.  But blindfolded!   Will the tak really win?😬🙂

The honest answer to this question is …. Yes

I directly compared my TSA102 to my SW 100ED, the Tak was a little sharper and had more contrast - perhaps 5 to 10% better.

[Chris]

On 25/04/2021 at 19:47, John said:

Refractor brands other than Takahashi can be carried across farms as I understand it

 

 

[JeremyS]

1 hour ago, Lockie said:

 

The wheels on that John Deere don’t look quite circular. Maybe the temperature was too low.

I’m sure they will ask Tak for advice.

🤣

[jetstream]

3 hours ago, dweller25 said:

The honest answer to this question is …. Yes

I directly compared my TSA102 to my SW 100ED, the Tak was a little sharper and had more contrast - perhaps 5 to 10% better.

Same here, SW120ED vs TSA120 except more than 10%...you sure youre not being gentle to the 100ED David?

[jetstream]

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/359628-bloated-stars-maybe-uvir-cut-needed/

12 hours ago, Adam J said:

On the subject of TAK scopes being worth the premium, I would go with that Olly said earlier.

I guess even TECs need understanding to make them work-star bloat and colour correction with the flattener, which Yuri disputes.

[dweller25]

46 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Same here, SW120ED vs TSA120 except more than 10%...you sure youre not being gentle to the 100ED David?

No Gerry, the ED100 was very good but I should clarify that with increasing powers over x200 the performance gap increased in the Taks favour.

[jetstream]

Just now, dweller25 said:

No Gerry, the ED100 was very good but I should clarify that with increasing powers over x200 the performance gap increased in the Taks favour.

Exactly my experience actually.

[Deadlake]

15 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Exactly my experience actually.

What temperature?😆

[Robindonne]

5 hours ago, dweller25 said:

The honest answer to this question is …. Yes

I directly compared my TSA102 to my SW 100ED, the Tak was a little sharper and had more contrast - perhaps 5 to 10% better.

Ah ok.  Well of course there will be some time spend on comparing views. But were you aware of the scope you were looking through?  Or did you only realised which scope was the winner, after the verdicts?

[jetstream]

20 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

What temperature?😆

The SW120ED twists up in the cold.... my reference was when this scopes cell is working properly.😀

[jetstream]

My point of reference is observing with both scopes mounted on the AZEQ6 and equalized. It doesnt matter when you know what scope your looking at when one takes unlimited mag on the moon and the other goes soft around 350x +/-. On faint nebula its closer but the TSA still comes out ahead contrast wise.

I was observing the moon the other day using the TSA120/Zeiss prism diag and a barlowed Vixen 2.4mm HR... sharp as a razor.  Maybe some SW120ED are better? I don't know.

[dweller25]

1 hour ago, Robindonne said:

Ah ok.  Well of course there will be some time spend on comparing views. But were you aware of the scope you were looking through?  Or did you only realised which scope was the winner, after the verdicts?

They were side by side at the same time.