New APM "super zoom"

[Littleguy80]

4 minutes ago, Pondus said:

Agree, although it looks like the weight will be around 1kg. Thats ES20/ Ethos 21 wieght class, and almost 3 times the weight of the Baader zoom.

 

Rune

I think the weight quoted is the shipping weight. The eyepiece should be a lot less than that. The APM UFF 30mm is also quoted at 1Kg but actually weighs only about half that. 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Littleguy80

[Pondus]

Hopefully you are right. Just have to wait and see

[niallk]

Missed this! 🙄

Very interesting indeed it will be fascinating to hear performance reports.  However I keep telling myself 'you don't need another EP...' 😂

[John]

1 hour ago, niallk said:

 

..... I keep telling myself 'you don't need another EP...' 😂

I've been telling myself that for years 🙄

I've not bought one since December last year, so that's something !

[Deadlake]

5 hours ago, John said:

I've been telling myself that for years 🙄

I've not bought one since December last year, so that's something !

I went and bought 5 APM ep’s (XWA) at the old price, now 5 for the price of 4. 

[StevieDvd]

I always thought pontification sounds like a maths formula for builders of bridges 😀

 

[niallk]

20 hours ago, John said:

I've been telling myself that for years 🙄

I've not bought one since December last year, so that's something !

Good going 😂 I've been pretty good - last EP probably 2+ yrs ago... a 7-21mm TS zoom for my Lunt 50mm.

I keep looking at those 'linear' binoviewers though for my dob + hopefully would reach focus in my LS50DS ... geez a pair of APM zooms would be nice 😭

Edited April 1, 2021 by niallk

[Deadlake]

I was asking a dealer about this EP and he had quite a lot to say.

Astro Zooms are normally crap compared to primes. They are basically barlowed so the FOV changes as you zoom (move the barlow). This results in the higher mag having the widest AFOV

Quality at the higher mag / short FL range is normally much worse. Use it un-zoomed and its OK. After that, soft.

The Baader Zoom is OK but still not as good as a prime. APM used to offer quality spotting scope zooms from Leica and Meopta with 1.25” adaption to be used in telescopes. These were £500 but stunning. Every bit as good as the best prime

Markus mentioned this new zoom to me last month. I said it will be great as long as it is equally good at both ends of its range. At the moment it is still being developed, so apart from performance that is the same through the range, it will also be getting clickstops at different FL settings like the Baader.

The Zoom is designed to offer a nice wide flat field with a low focal ratio scope. Very low in fact. The idea being we can use them on the APO Binoculars which are F5.5. If it delivers then it means we could have a Zoom to replace the otherwise very good (as good as a TV EP) UFF range from 15mm down, and that also has a wider field of view.

Hopefully I will get some samples early I can test. If its as good as planned then it will be a winner. They will be tested on 150mm APO Binoculars and Refractors from F6-F8. If they maintain a flat field and sharpness with those, they will work in anything. 
 

Expected price in the UK will be £279 that’s not confirmed due to while an FTA exists (Free Trade Agreement), that only applies to goods manufactured in the EU and are accompanied with a Certificate of Origin. As these Zooms will be made in China, they will get hit with a 4% duty (as all Chinese telescopes / telescope equipment does (but not cameras weirdly). We also get a customs brokerage fee and shipping costs from the EU, particularly Germany, have increased quite bit. A 6” class scope used to be 40€ to ship to us. It is now 100€!

[John]

The zoom exceptions to me have always been the Nagler zooms which certainly do perform as well as very good fixed focal length eyepieces, have constant AFoV and eye relief across their focal length range and near par-focality across their FL range.

If the APM zoom proves to have similar characteristics, I may well be very interested in one 

Edited April 2, 2021 by John

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, Deadlake said:

They are basically barlowed so the FOV changes as you zoom (move the barlow).

This is true and false for varifocal zooms like the Speers Waler 5-8mm.  They literally have a moving Barlow or Smyth lens that changes the focal length, so that much is true.  However, they are far from parfocal, but have a constant field of view, so that part is false.

True zooms have three sections.  The upper section forms the image and never moves, the lowest section acts like a moving Barlow as in a varifocal, while the middle section moves opposite the Barlow as you increase power and maintains some semblance of parfocality.  Because that middle section moves to maintain parfocality, the field of view changes drastically from one end to the other.

[amaury]

On 02/04/2021 at 17:04, Deadlake said:

The Zoom is designed to offer a nice wide flat field with a low focal ratio scope. Very low in fact. The idea being we can use them on the APO Binoculars which are F5.5. If it delivers then it means we could have a Zoom to replace the otherwise very good (as good as a TV EP) UFF range from 15mm down, and that also has a wider field of view.

Expectations are high on this one. I'll be patient instead of buying the Morpheus line up from 12.5mm down.

[Voyager 3]

Don't hold your breath . They say it may hit the market in June but these are crazy times and they may even be delayed by months .

[Littleguy80]

21 minutes ago, Voyager 3 said:

Don't hold your breath . They say it may hit the market in June but these are crazy times and they may even be delayed by months .

They're taking pre-orders with a release date of the 7th June so I'd be surprised if there were any big delays. Wise to be cautious, of course. 

[johninderby]

[Louis D]

I just remember how long it took for the 17.5mm Morpheus to finally hit store shelves.  Wasn't it several years of delays?  And that was pre-Covid.

[John]

If this has the optical performance qualities of the Morpheus and achieves the other characteristics that APM specify, I think it will fly of the shelves at that price. 

I am imagining a set comprising the APM XWA 20mm, an APM Super Zoom and a Powermate or similar quality barlow / extender. Could be all an observer needs ?

For the SCT / Mak-Cassegrain user, just the 20mm and the zoom.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by John

[Deadlake]

8 minutes ago, John said:

If this has the optical performance qualities of the Morpheus and achieves the other characteristics that APM specify, I think it will fly of the shelves at that price. 

I am imagining a set comprising the APM XWA 20mm, an APM Super Zoom and a Powermate or similar quality barlow / extender. Could be all an observer needs ?

For the SCT / Mak-Cassegrain user, just the 20mm and the zoom.

 

 

I think APM are shooting for Leica quality, but made by KUO. If they get them working with F6 scopes then they will work with any scope. As long as they turn up by September should be good....

[Louis D]

KUO is making some splendid eyepieces like the APM UFFs and likely the Aero ED, WO/Nirvana/TS UWANs, and maybe even the Orion LHD and APM HDC-XWA lines.  If any Chinese eyepiece maker can pull it off, they're mostly likely to be able to do it.

[KP82]

14 hours ago, John said:

If this has the optical performance qualities of the Morpheus and achieves the other characteristics that APM specify, I think it will fly of the shelves at that price. 

I am imagining a set comprising the APM XWA 20mm, an APM Super Zoom and a Powermate or similar quality barlow / extender. Could be all an observer needs ?

That will be a "yes" for me if the quality of the zoom is up there with the mid to high end fixed focal eyepieces.

Not only it will minimise the hassle of swapping eyepieces, but also be a huge cost saving compared to a set of high-end eyepieces. It would pretty much kill off any expensive 60 - 76deg short to medium focal length eyepieces (e.g. Morpheus, XW, Delos, Delite, etc.) I suppose.

[Littleguy80]

16 minutes ago, KP82 said:

Not only it will minimise the hassle of swapping eyepieces, but also be a huge cost saving compared to a set of high-end eyepieces. It would pretty much kill off any expensive 60 - 76deg short to medium focal length eyepieces (e.g. Morpheus, XW, Delos, Delite, etc.) I suppose.

I’d be surprised if it surpasses those eyepieces. I know a few members have the Leica zoom but still use fixed focal length eyepieces from the ranges. Zooms by their nature are a compromise. That’s not to say that the difference will be significant and for some this will be all they need for those focal lengths. 

[Voyager 3]

On 14/04/2021 at 01:39, John said:

If this has the optical performance qualities of the Morpheus and achieves the other characteristics that APM specify, I think it will fly of the shelves at that price. 

I am imagining a set comprising the APM XWA 20mm, an APM Super Zoom and a Powermate or similar quality barlow / extender. Could be all an observer needs ?

For the SCT / Mak-Cassegrain user, just the 20mm and the zoom.

 

 

Well John , knowing your affinity for EPs , I just saw your older posts with respect to your Leica zoom and the Baader VIP Barlow. It's funny how you mention the same thing now in the APM zoom 😁 . This may again turn out to be a expensive exercise ....

And @Littleguy80 , here's one of the man you said who use(s) fixed FLs even when donning the Leica and a world class Barlow in VIP . 👍

[Stu]

It’s certainly an interesting eyepiece, and will be good to know how it compares with the Leica, which I have. I use it a lot, either natively or with an AP Barcon and find it excellent quality even compared with fixed eyepieces. I do not have any comparable focal lengths currently, but have a 12.5mm Baader Morpheus on its way to me so will be able to compare with that.

The constant afov throughout the range sounds excellent, and is the one weakness with the Leica, particularly at the longer focal length. I have compared the Leica with BGOs and have found transmission and scatter to be right up there, and it is excellent for solar white light observations. Edge performance is probably a bit lacking vs fixed focal lengths, but I mainly use it for planetary, lunar or solar targets so that’s less of a problem as I’m mainly looking on axis.

[John]

39 minutes ago, Voyager 3 said:

Well John , knowing your affinity for EPs , I just saw your older posts with respect to your Leica zoom and the Baader VIP Barlow. It's funny how you mention the same thing now in the APM zoom 😁 . This may again turn out to be a expensive exercise ....

 

I'm happy these days to sit back and wait for the reports from others before I decide whether to invest 

My good intentions in the past to rationalize my eyepieces down to a small set have all floundered. I'm probably someone who just likes having a couple of cases of eyepieces

If I did get one of these zooms, being realistic about myself, it would be likely to be in addition to my fixed focal length eyepieces, rather than to replace them.

 

 

[Deadlake]

Markus has posted an update here:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/758189-new-apm-zoom-eyepiece-77mm-154mm-75°-constant-fov/?p=11034801

However in another part the price for the astro version is now €395. In the US I guess an extra 20% on top that and more for the UK as well due to Brexit, but maybe just another 4% tariffs. 

 

[Louis D]

Another update on CN from Marcus.

The key takeaway from this post in my mind is the 26mm eye lens diameter which will limit absolute eye relief to 17mm if the AFOV is 75 degrees and the lens is flush mounted to the top.  My guess is that usable eye relief will be closer to 15mm at best, making it very tight for eyeglass wearers who want to take in the entire field at once.  It will be very comfortable for non-eyeglass wearers, though.