Frozen!

[RobertI]

Ventured out with the 102ED last night for a very brief session in the cold (-2C). Inspired by @John's recent post I had wanted to try the Pup but the seeing wasn't up to it.  Just to make sure, I had a look at Sirius at high power and it was flickering like an oxy-acetyline torch, making the whole FOV flash like a strobe light. So dew heaters in place, I had a quick look around Taurus instead, and found the following 'never seen before' delights:

• 119 Tauri - Known as the 'Ruby star' this is a mag 4.5 red supergiant. It was a beautiful deep orange but what really made this was the nearby 120 Tauri, a blue subgiant. The contrasting red and blue of these two stars in the same FOV at x35 was magical.
• NGC1647 - A lovely rich open cluster known as the 'Pirate Moon' cluster.
• NGC1817 - Known as the 'Poor Man's Double Cluster', it comprised two very loose groups of stars, one with around 10 members and the other around 5. Certainly lives up to its name, but might look a bit less poor in a larger aperture.

I also managed a quick look at M42. Surprisingly the E component of the Trapezium was immediately visible at x140, but the F component wasn't apparent in the brief time I looked. I just managed to split Alnitak, but wobbly conditions made it rather unpleasant.

A brief but satisfying session. Seeing the equipment covered in ice somehow made it seem like more of an achievement. Unfortunately my pre-prepared list of targets had disappeared over the rooftops - need to produce another list!

I found it was a faff changing eyepieces in really cold conditions (cold fingers and eyepiece dew heaters) - next time out I'll either choose objects that all work at the same mag & FOV, or I'll just use the zoom.

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by RobertI

[Mark at Beaufort]

Nice report Rob. I used the 12" Dob to see the Trapezium E and F last night but Sirius was a no go. Yes it was rather cold - the BBC stated this morning that Hereford was -5 - no wonder I got cold.

[Neil H]

You were lucky I got mist and fog  just as it was getting dark so could look at nothing , and all cloud today so looks like tonight is a no go too

[Paz]

3 hours ago, RobertI said:

@JohnIfound it was a faff changing eyepieces in really cold conditions (cold fingers and eyepiece dew heaters) - next time out I'll either choose objects that all work at the same mag & FOV, or I'll just use the zoom.

That's a good session, those are nice targets providing a lot of interest without requiring antisocial amounts of star hopping!

I struggle with cold hands and the longer I've been observing the fewer eyepieces I take out for a session, quite often only using one or two these days, based on what I'm likely to be looking at.

[faulksy]

4 hours ago, RobertI said:

Ventured out with the 102ED last night for a very brief session in the cold (-2C). Inspired by @John's recent post I had wanted to try the Pup but the seeing wasn't up to it.  Just to make sure, I had a look at Sirius at high power and it was flickering like an oxy-acetyline torch, making the whole FOV flash like a strobe light. So dew heaters in place, I had a quick look around Taurus instead, and found the following 'never seen before' delights:

• 119 Tauri - Known as the 'Ruby star' this is a mag 4.5 red supergiant. It was a beautiful deep orange but what really made this was the nearby 120 Tauri, a blue subgiant. The contrasting red and blue of these two stars in the same FOV at x35 was magical.
• NGC1647 - A lovely rich open cluster known as the 'Pirate Moon' cluster.
• NGC1817 - Known as the 'Poor Man's Double Cluster', it comprised two very loose groups of stars, one with around 10 members and the other around 5. Certainly lives up to its name, but might look a bit less poor in a larger aperture.

I also managed a quick look at M42. Surprisingly the E component of the Trapezium was immediately visible at x140, but the F component wasn't apparent in the brief time I looked. I just managed to split Alnitak, but wobbly conditions made it rather unpleasant.

A brief but satisfying session. Seeing the equipment covered in ice somehow made it seem like more of an achievement. Unfortunately my pre-prepared list of targets had disappeared over the rooftops - need to produce another list!

I found it was a faff changing eyepieces in really cold conditions (cold fingers and eyepiece dew heaters) - next time out I'll either choose objects that all work at the same mag & FOV, or I'll just use the zoom.

 

 

 

great report. last night for the first time i can remember i used just my 21mm eyepiece all night, didnt even use a filter

[Tiny Clanger]

1 hour ago, Paz said:

That's a good session, those are nice targets providing a lot of interest without requiring antisocial amounts of star hopping!

I struggle with cold hands and the longer I've been observing the fewer eyepieces I take out for a session, quite often only using one or two these days, based on what I'm likely to be looking at.

Have you tried gel hand warmers ? Sealed plastic pouches of an inoffensive gel which has a little metal  clicker disk inside . You click the disk, it starts off an exothermic chain reaction of crystallization. Gives out heat for around an hour if in a pocket, also excellent as an unlikely to leak alternative to a hot water bottle in a sleeping bag. You just recharge the pack by boiling for a few minutes in a pan of water, indefinite number of re-uses, and they store in gel form so can be ready for action any time. I have about ten of them, buy a few whenever they come up as 'specials' in Lidl or Aldi . I park the crystallized used ones on the kitchen window sill until I've only a couple of 'charged' ones left, then a big pan of water goes on the hob to boil 'em up.

I even used one a few nights ago held on my mak with an elastic strap as a peasant's dew heater ...it did the job really well !

Here's an amaz. link for the kind of thing, I've no experience of this particular brand, there are many online options

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Magic-Reusable-Hand-Warmer-Heat/dp/B07JP97BCZ/ref=sr_1_17?_encoding=UTF8&dchild=1&keywords=gel%2Bhand%2Bwarmers&qid=1610294683&sr=8-17&th=1&psc=1

Heather

[F15Rules]

Thanks for sharing, Robert👍.. I think your session mirrored my own in many ways..

I did get out last night, 3rd time lucky actually, as the previous nights had looked promising but then clouded over, whereas last night was very misty early on and then slowly improved as the evening went on..by 10.50pm it had cleared quite a bit so I double layered up and went outside.

Boy, it was COLD last night! I had steaming up/freezing up of various lenses, eyepieces etc, but all at different times!

To be honest, in some ways it was a frustrating session, culminating with literally ice crystals beginning to form on the objective of the FS128! At that point I popped into the house and fetched out a hairdryer to gently clear the objective, and this did work.

So I spent probably 50 minutes just gazing at M42 (looked lovely through my new to me Aero 30mm, and superb contrast in the Morpheus 17.5mm), the Trap (Morpheus 17.5mm and Nagler T2 12mm), and then at Sirius (no Pup tonight) with T2 12mm and BGO 7mm. Finished off with the BGO 7mm on the Trap, E star glimpsed, but no F..

By midnight I was frozen, feet like ice, so time to pack up. Just looking up though, the sky had got better and better, (Orion's raised left arm stars were all very clear, as were Sirius's lower down Canis Major stars, and Lepus below Orion too).

It was just great to be out under a dark sky👍

Dave

[JeremyS]

12 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

I think your session mirrored my own in many ways..

But I thought you were a refractor man, Dave....

🙂

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by JeremyS

[MercianDabbler]

Not an original idea, but I really recommend layers for the cold. Keeping your hands and feet warm is not all about gloves or socks.

Ice was an issue for me last night but I don't think I felt cold...

Tee shirt, thermal base layer (long sleeved), cotton checked shirt, hoodie (also handy for blocking out neighbours' lights), body warmer and finally a thick jacket. Two pairs of trousers, hiking boots and socks. I have fingerless gloves but these are somewhat poor, being a sort of knotted string construction intended for cycling but my hands were OK.

Oh, and a beanie hat too.

I certainly needed to get most of those layers off quickly once back indoors!

[Tiny Clanger]

1 minute ago, MercianDabbler said:

Not an original idea, but I really recommend layers for the cold. Keeping your hands and feet warm is not all about gloves or socks.

Ice was an issue for me last night but I don't think I felt cold...

Tee shirt, thermal base layer (long sleeved), cotton checked shirt, hoodie (also handy for blocking out neighbours' lights), body warmer and finally a thick jacket. Two pairs of trousers, hiking boots and socks. I have fingerless gloves but these are somewhat poor, being a sort of knotted string construction intended for cycling but my hands were OK.

Oh, and a beanie hat too.

I certainly needed to get most of those layers off quickly once back indoors!

Saturday night dressing up to go out never used to be like this !😀

My list was : thermal base layer (Rohan warm T) Rohan thermocore shirt ( as warm as a thin fleece), thin fleece (a zip neck one with a high collar) merino wool socks, Craghopper lined winter trousers , the old heavy vibram soled leather boots I don't use for hiking any more now I have fabric/goretex lightweight alternatives, alltopped off with an Alpkit down jacket, fleece hat and fleece shooter's mitts. 

I had a down gilet handy in case I needed it, but didn't, I was nice and warm for nearly two hours despite the grass getting crunchy under my feet ...

Heather

[Paz]

I've think I've tried every keeping warm trick known to humanity except for active heating pads. I will give them a go.

[F15Rules]

41 minutes ago, Paz said:

I've think I've tried every keeping warm trick known to humanity except for active heating pads. I will give them a go.

Perhaps Jeremy will chip in, Chris? He's certainly an expert on hot air..

[F15Rules]

2 hours ago, JeremyS said:

But I thought you were a refractor man, Dave....

🙂

 

Hmm..

I've reflected on what you said Jeremy, and I think the lens said, the better!😋😜

[Tiny Clanger]

46 minutes ago, Paz said:

I've think I've tried every keeping warm trick known to humanity except for active heating pads. I will give them a go.

If you have the money to buy good quality (and it is hideously expensive) base layers of merino wool  are fabulously warm. The good stuff is not at all itchy . I have one merino t shirt, it is reserved for really cold weather , so is still in the drawer so far this winter ...

Heather

[RobertI]

2 hours ago, Tiny Clanger said:

Keeping your hands and feet warm is not all about gloves or socks.

Interesting point, hadn’t really thought of that. I still think I could do better with protecting my extremeties though, my light weight trainers were insufficient and I had to keep taking my gloves off as I didn’t trust handling my eyepieces with gloved hands. The gel pack sounds promising. I need some fur lined boots too I think. Also just reminded me to dig out I my skiing salopettes - Very good insulators. 

[Voyager 3]

11 hours ago, F15Rules said:

Hmm..

I've reflected on what you said Jeremy, and I think the lens said, the better!😋😜

You are refracting the topic Dave😉.

[PeterW]

Insulated rubber boots (I have muck arctic sport), insulated trousers (US mil surplus), fleece hat, down jacket (a recent revelation, hardly need any under layers with it). For hands I have some extreme mitts, with some thin glove liners (with conductive thread in the finger tips for touch screen ability), keep the cold off until I get the mitts back on.  I went for a short walk recently and seriously overheated.

PEter

[Ships and Stars]

Ah the joys of winter observing! Off topic a little, but I think I've put together a really good winter system for standing around idle in silly temperatures all night. Winter camping is one of my favs, lots of snow and no one else around. 

1.) Baselayer - the absolute best IMO is Brynje Arctic double long bottoms and top, otherwise their super thermo is great too but funny looking, it does work amazingly well. Brynje stuff isn't cheap so in lieu of that, any decent wool baselayer. My Brynje Arctic bottoms were used from Poland for £29, a steal.

2.) Over that I wear a used one piece drysuit thinsulate undersuit for diving, aka a 'woolly bear' (thank you James). £40 ebay. Living the dream in this!

3.) Over that goes a used Rab Extreme down parka off ebay for £50, another steal. Had to wash it to loft the down back up, it had a hard life but is now working great. 

4.) For the head, a Varusteleka wool balaclava, thin but nice. £15. Otherwise any wool hat. Wool is good, the scratchy texture promotes circulation.

5.) Any decent chunky wool socks as long as they aren't thin wool dress socks. 

6.) Gloves - I find fingerless cycling gloves are a great compromise if you've handwarmer pockets on your parka, but otherwise Lomo winter sailing gloves for £11.50 are grippy, tactile, warm and seriously durable (kevlar stitching). Lomo stuff is very affordable for the quality. 

7.) Boots - believe it or not, I wear desert boots made by Alt Berg, they are featherlight like trainers, but somehow are very warm, as I've found out. The wool socks underneath are key I think. Not very waterproof of course, but ok.

---

If it's seriously, seriously cold, like -10C or more, I'll wear a Rab expedition down suit that's used on Everest. Picked mine up new with tags for 80% off list, or simply couldn't/wouldn't pay that price! 😲 This is a survival suit, full stop.

Finally, Sorel Glacier boots I picked up for £50.

I've worn that combo down to -35/-40C and was okay as long as I paid close attention to my hands and kept moving.

Besides clothing, a bit of food and warm drink is of course important. If there's no heat coming off your body from movement, then no clothing on the planet will keep you warm. 

 

 Still some cold weeks ahead of us! 👍

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Ships and Stars

[Tiny Clanger]

9 minutes ago, Ships and Stars said:

Ah the joys of winter observing! Off topic a little, but I think I've put together a really good winter system for standing around idle in silly temperatures all night. Winter camping is one of my favs, lots of snow and no one else around. 

1.) Baselayer - the absolute best IMO is Brynje Arctic double long bottoms and top, otherwise their super thermo is great too but funny looking, it does work amazingly well. Brynje stuff isn't cheap so in lieu of that, any decent wool baselayer. My Brynje Arctic bottoms were used from Poland for £29, a steal.

2.) Over that I wear a used one piece scuba diving thinsulate undersuit. £40 ebay. Living the dream in this!

3.) Over that goes a used Rab Extreme down parka off ebay for £50, another steal. Had to wash it to loft the down back up, it had a hard life but is now working great. 

4.) For the head, a Varusteleka wool balaclava, thin but nice. £15. Otherwise any wool hat. Wool is good, the scratchy texture promotes circulation.

5.) Any decent chunky wool socks as long as they aren't thin wool dress socks. 

6.) Gloves - I find fingerless cycling gloves are a great compromise if you've handwarmer pockets on your parka, but otherwise Lomo winter sailing gloves for £11.50 are grippy, tactile, warm and seriously durable (kevlar stitching). Lomo stuff is very affordable for the quality. 

7.) Boots - believe it or not, I wear desert boots made by Alt Berg, they are featherlight like trainers, but somehow are very warm, as I've found out. The wool socks underneath are key I think. Not very waterproof of course, but ok.

---

If it's seriously, seriously cold, like -10C or more, I'll wear a Rab expedition down suit that's used on Everest. Picked mine up new with tags for 80% off list, or simply would never pay that price!

Finally, Sorel Glacier boots I picked up for £50.

I've worn that combo down to -35/-40C and was okay as long as I paid close attention to my hands and kept moving.

Besides clothing, a bit of food and warm drink is of course important. If there's no heat coming off your body from movement, then no clothing on the planet will keep you warm. 

 

 Still some cold weeks ahead of us! 👍

 

 

2) is that a thinsulate onesie ? 😀 Fab! Never seen one of those before

I have some Rohan over the head tops (Olfios ) with similar thinsulate between a polycotton outer and a soft knit inner, the oldest one has stopped lofting after what must by now be 30 years of frequent use and washing, seemed expensive when I bought it, but it's served me well. They advertised them as warm as a Guernsey pullover, but lighter, wind resistant and easy to wash and dry, which they were.

Washing a down parka must have been fun, I (reluctantly) washed my down gilet in the height of summer, it took 7 hours of tumble drying with tennis balls, and lots of hand clump breaking to make it lovely again, which made me decide that when my jacket needs washing I'll be happy to pay an expert to do it !

All the clever technical fabrics in the world, and you still can;t really beat wool and down (in dry cold conditions anyway )

Heather

[JamesF]

33 minutes ago, Ships and Stars said:

2.) Over that I wear a used one piece scuba diving thinsulate undersuit. £40 ebay. Living the dream in this!

Don't people call them "woolly bears" any more? :)

I also have one and it had never occurred to me to use it for observing.  I shall have to dig it out, if I can remember where it is.

James

[Tiny Clanger]

14 minutes ago, JamesF said:

Don't people call them "woolly bears" any more?

I also have one and it had never occurred to me to use it for observing.  I shall have to dig it out, if I can remember where it is.

James

I though woolly bears were carpet beetle larvae ?

[Ships and Stars]

58 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

2) is that a thinsulate onesie ? 😀 Fab! Never seen one of those before

I have some Rohan over the head tops (Olfios ) with similar thinsulate between a polycotton outer and a soft knit inner, the oldest one has stopped lofting after what must by now be 30 years of frequent use and washing, seemed expensive when I bought it, but it's served me well. They advertised them as warm as a Guernsey pullover, but lighter, wind resistant and easy to wash and dry, which they were.

Washing a down parka must have been fun, I (reluctantly) washed my down gilet in the height of summer, it took 7 hours of tumble drying with tennis balls, and lots of hand clump breaking to make it lovely again, which made me decide that when my jacket needs washing I'll be happy to pay an expert to do it !

All the clever technical fabrics in the world, and you still can;t really beat wool and down (in dry cold conditions anyway )

Heather

Yes, some are thinsulate, some are fleece, super warm and not too bulky for the amount of insulation they offer. There are usually loads of gently used ones on ebay, can go from £20 on up for a good one. Highly recommend for the price! Great for lounging around camp as well if camping. They're pretty durable too! Yes washing down is fun. I did mine in the bath tub with nikwax down wash then let it drain gently for about an hour. Our tumble dryer at the time had a down setting which was a stroke of luck, and like you chucked in about half a dozen tennis balls. That ran for a good five hours but it looked so much better afterwards, down will last many years if looked after. Glad I don't have to wash down often however, it's quite a task to do it right. PS agree with you on the wool - it's just hard to beat full stop. Merino is great if you don't like scratchy, but the price goes up. There's always plenty of used woolen items online though. I tend to buy up a size in case it gets washed on too warm a setting, but I generally handwash that stuff. 👍

49 minutes ago, JamesF said:

Don't people call them "woolly bears" any more?

I also have one and it had never occurred to me to use it for observing.  I shall have to dig it out, if I can remember where it is.

James

I was trying to think of the name! Thank you. Yeah they're handy for observing, a parka will usually still go over a wooly bear without being too restrictive, so that's a definite cold weather combo for not a lot of ££.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Ships and Stars

[PeterW]

My trousers are US ECWCS level 7, like wearing a sleeping bag... good reason they’re called “marshmallow pants”..... no pockets though 😞

Peter

[Captain Scarlet]

My wife likes swimming in lakes and the sea. She bought herself, at least so she thought, a Dryrobe for ease of changing out of wet kit whilst remaining warm and decent but still out and about. I have formally adopted the Dryrobe, it's perfect for astro use. No special trousers, but Uggs for my feet, thin merino gloves for my hands, a thin woollen hat over which fits my headtorch-band, and I'm good. I've recently satisfied myself that the little warm-pouch pocket sachets aren't bad environmentally either. Just a packet of activated carbon, vermiculite, cellulose and salt which when spent end up as basically just a bag of rust!

M

[PeterW]

I had to recently get my own warm jacket as I was getting “too much” use out of the wife’s.... mine is lighter and warmer! You could also try the “lighter fluid” powered heaters... eg by peacock https://www.anglersnet.co.uk/reviews/tackle-and-bait-reviews/peacock-pocket-warmer-review/ or other similar ones. When fired up they can get very toasty and last for a long time too... new gloves are working good so far, but they’re in the cupboard in case of emergencies. 

Peter