Rowan AZ100 Mount Owners Thread

[Trentend]

Would this mount work on an Avalon tpod 110 with a C11 edge? Looking for a portable(ish) set up for dark site night vision trips. Seems to tick all the boxes (slow motion controls if I want to do some high mag solar stuff, Nexus compatible, motors in pipeline). Was considering a panther mount, which looks like a work of art, but that is a lot more expensive and heavier (the tpod also looks about half the weight of the Berlebach tripods, not sure if as stable though?)

Edited March 19, 2021 by Trentend

[johninderby]

The Avalon tripod is rated at 100kg so will be good with the AZ100. The AZ100 will  hardly notice the C11. Well within it’s capabilities. In fact the AZ100 should handle a C14. 🙂

Edited March 19, 2021 by johninderby

[Trentend]

Thanks John. Not sure my back would though!

[bsdsgl84]

6 hours ago, johninderby said:

The Avalon tripod is rated at 100kg so will be good with the AZ100. The AZ100 will  hardly notice the C11. Well within it’s capabilities. In fact the AZ100 should handle a C14. 🙂

That's a bit of a stretch, really. 

Fully loaded, my C-14-XLT-Fastar comes in just under 63 lbs and given the counterweights x moment arm in play with (just) an APM TMB Design LZOS 152 f/8, I personally won't countenance the idea of using a C-14.., 

On paper, the C-11 may seem like its near to the C-14, but in reality the C-14 really is in a different weight and volume class.., 

 

bsdsgl84 

 

[Stephenstargazer]

On 19/03/2021 at 21:15, Telescope40 said:

If it works out as easy to use as I hope, 

My experience of the AZ100 and DSC are that they are easy to align and use and it only took a few goes to learn the basics. There is clever stuff too, but it does not get in the way. Even joining it to Sky Safari was not much harder and I don't count myself much of a techi. I like that out of the huge database you only need turn on the parts you want to use. 

As it is not motorised (yet) nothing moves in an unexpected direction either! The push to is almost therapeutic as well as silent. 😄

 

[Steve Clay]

1 step closer.

Skytee mount provisionally sold. Getting more excited.

I'm also really chuffed to be supporting British engineering. It's such a shame that we can't source more made in the UK. I for one would happily pay that bit extra.

Steve

[johninderby]

8 minutes ago, Steve Clay said:

1 step closer.

Skytee mount provisionally sold. Getting more excited.

I'm also really chuffed to be supporting British engineering. It's such a shame that we can't source more made in the UK. I for one would happily pay that bit extra.

Steve

Worth the wait though. 👍🏻

[Telescope40]

Hello.   Had a session last night with the mount and DSC unit.  Very happy to say the least.   Have added  a post on  the review section of the forum for anyones perusal.  Fraid I not know how to link it to this post ??  

Not sure right now if I'll bother with the "motor kit " once it's available.  The slo mo's are  a joy to use once on target.  Guess I will succumb given time. 

John 

[Razvan]

I had the opportunity to use the mount a few more times since my last message, this time out at a dark site (a TSA-120 on a Berlebach Planet, no counterweight).  A couple of comments:

• since it has no motors, the utter silence is perfect for visual observing, there's no humming, whirring or anything that reminds me of a mechanism. With a 120mm refractor, using slo-mo controls was not a problem, there was time to observe an object before moving it.
• also because it has no motors, I was able to observe targets very close to the zenith and then step away without worrying that in a few minutes, the scope might hit the tripod legs. 
• I find the lack of a need for power supplies and cables to be very relaxing (although I will need them when using dew heaters). I also do astrophotography but find since the Nexus' battery lasts so long, I can go completely off the grid for days without worrying about power. In fact, I think that whenever I go to a Bortle 2 site, I'd rather observe visually many objects than image one or two per night as a normal imaging session is wont to be like. I also like the fact that even with a discharged Nexus, I can still use the mount just fine, it's not that the night will be ruined. 
• I started my astronomy journey many years ago with a fairly common setup, a manual 8-inch dob. Using the AZ100 is a lot more pleasurable because of mechanical precision and not having to deal with the stiction of a dob's teflon pads and the imprecision of the alignment. 
• Nexus + SkySafari on a tablet is just perfect: besides the "goto" directions I like that I can move the scope manually wherever I want and see on the tablet instantly where it points. It makes it easy to point the scope to a desired area of the sky. The position was being updated in SkySafari without a discernable lag.  
• I love atlases and have a few but confess that in the field I prefer the tablet, so I can set flipping and FOV to match my eyepiece and zoom it to fill the tablet's screen. I do my planning in SkyTools, save the observing list in Dropbox and from there I load it in SkySafari on the tablet, so it's painless. 
• That said, I like the fact that the model is in Nexus and not in SkySafari. I can turn off the tablet or not having to rely on it without limiting my sessions. Pointing was dead on or very slightly off, which I think it's mainly due to the imprecision of alignment. I have a double-reticle eyepiece for alignment but like all perhaps, it has some parallax. I plan to give local sync a try in the future.

The reason I'm posting this is that what I felt was sheer joy. Both the hardware and the software worked and faded in the background, leaving me to think about the targets. It felt like arriving, after a long journey.

 

[Saganite]

Exactly how I felt about it last night during 5 hours of observing, superb control with peace and tranquility!

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Saganite

[Saganite]

6 hours ago, Razvan said:

I had the opportunity to use the mount a few more times since my last message, this time out at a dark site (a TSA-120 on a Berlebach Planet, no counterweight).  A couple of comments:

• since it has no motors, the utter silence is perfect for visual observing, there's no humming, whirring or anything that reminds me of a mechanism. With a 120mm refractor, using slo-mo controls was not a problem, there was time to observe an object before moving it.
• also because it has no motors, I was able to observe targets very close to the zenith and then step away without worrying that in a few minutes, the scope might hit the tripod legs. 
• I find the lack of a need for power supplies and cables to be very relaxing (although I will need them when using dew heaters). I also do astrophotography but find since the Nexus' battery lasts so long, I can go completely off the grid for days without worrying about power. In fact, I think that whenever I go to a Bortle 2 site, I'd rather observe visually many objects than image one or two per night as a normal imaging session is wont to be like. I also like the fact that even with a discharged Nexus, I can still use the mount just fine, it's not that the night will be ruined. 
• I started my astronomy journey many years ago with a fairly common setup, a manual 8-inch dob. Using the AZ100 is a lot more pleasurable because of mechanical precision and not having to deal with the stiction of a dob's teflon pads and the imprecision of the alignment. 
• Nexus + SkySafari on a tablet is just perfect: besides the "goto" directions I like that I can move the scope manually wherever I want and see on the tablet instantly where it points. It makes it easy to point the scope to a desired area of the sky. The position was being updated in SkySafari without a discernable lag.  
• I love atlases and have a few but confess that in the field I prefer the tablet, so I can set flipping and FOV to match my eyepiece and zoom it to fill the tablet's screen. I do my planning in SkyTools, save the observing list in Dropbox and from there I load it in SkySafari on the tablet, so it's painless. 
• That said, I like the fact that the model is in Nexus and not in SkySafari. I can turn off the tablet or not having to rely on it without limiting my sessions. Pointing was dead on or very slightly off, which I think it's mainly due to the imprecision of alignment. I have a double-reticle eyepiece for alignment but like all perhaps, it has some parallax. I plan to give local sync a try in the future.

The reason I'm posting this is that what I felt was sheer joy. Both the hardware and the software worked and faded in the background, leaving me to think about the targets. It felt like arriving, after a long journey.

 

That says it all really, everything you could want in one mount.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Saganite

[johninderby]

To me it’s the ability to make the AZ100 into the ideal mount for you and make changes to it if you want as new options come along. 

[HCampbell]

I’m a new user of the AZ100 and don’t think I could have made a better choice.  The mount is superb and Derek provided top notch customer service.

I do have one minor question:  There are 2 small horizontally opposed knobs near the bottom of the mount.  The online AZ100 instructions show one of these small knobs and describe it as the “Azimuth Damping adjuster”.  The instructions do not mention or show the other small knob on the other side of the mount.

Well, I tightened both of these small knobs as much as I could and did not notice the slightest effect on azimuth damping.  No big deal as I can easily damp the motion by adjusting the larger “Azimuth Axis Clutch” knob.  But these controls do puzzle me.

Howard

[Stephenstargazer]

My mount is older and just has single azimuth slomo damper knob as in manual. This should act on the wheel gear only (??) so does not affect feel of clutch for 'pushing' but should make the slow motion feel slightly stiffer. I set mine light finger tight only, with a small scope. Suggest only tighten if heavy scope tries to jump a bit on slow motion.

I found it was good to adjust the worm clearances carefully after a little use has bedded  in grease etc Pg 4 in manual. Find point where backlash just goes then slow motions are very light to use.

As @Telescope40 says the slomos are so good! Motors???

 

[HCampbell]

Aha, I see now.  Thanks much for the info!

Yes, I agree the slomo controls are excellent.  I hope Rowan can find a way to make the (future) motors compatible with the controls.  Last I heard from Derek was that it might be necessary to remove belts in order to use the slomo controls, then have to reinstall the belts  to go back to motor mode.  If that turns out to be the case I might pass on the motors.

Thanks again,

Howard

[Razvan]

A couple of more notes I forgot to include in my previous message:

• I found it useful to level the tripod very well (I use the iPad, sitting flat on the plate before putting on the mount; the Polar Scope Pro app has a bubble level among other things - there are many other apps offering such a level).  If the mount is not level, aligning works equally fine but without a counterweight and with the clutches unlocked and no other friction applied, the scope will rotate to come on the lower side. I don't know how come the mount has such a low friction, it almost feels like it uses magnetic levitation inside 🙂. To clarify: during normal observing, the clutches and friction knobs will be engaged. Given that the mount and tripod hold everything without the counterweights, I like the absence of the bar & weights from an aesthetic perspective.
• centering stars during alignment was painless as there's no backlash at all (not even from the slo-mo controls - I'm saying this because a couple of years ago I had a Vixen Porta II whose slo-mo screws never kept the handles tight and had quite a bit of play). So for the final movements, you don't have to always come from the same direction like with less precise mounts.  
• speaking of balance, I still have to figure out what's the best way to balance the OTA with eyepieces of different weights (my heaviest is a Delos 14mm, the others are lighter Plössls - also have a PowerMate 2.5). One option is to balance for something in between the extremes. Another is to balance for the eyepiece used most of the time. A third option is to leave the eyepiece end heavier since it's always going to be stay lower. Suggestions are welcome if you have experience with this.
• an observation: before the last sessions I had forgotten to enable DST (we already switched here in Canada) and only realized after I made the 3-star alignment (my Nexus DSC came from Rowan with the newer firmware offering this option). I found that the model was accurate and thought Nexus must be using the UTC time from GPS. The manual says that the 2-star alignment doesn't use the location, date or time for alignment and pointing. I guess the 3-star model doesn't use that either. I found this interesting, all the other mounts I used in the past were sensitive to the time zone, I thought the math would be the same.
• also noticed that once I used "Find from Planetarium" once with SkySafari, I didn't have to select this option from Nexus but simply tap on the new target in SkySafari and Nexus immediately showed the slewing directions. This made it more convenient as I didn't have to press buttons on Nexus at all from my sitting position, just select the target on the iPad which was close on a small table. For slewing I did need to look at the displayed arrows Nexus, of course, but I guess I could look at the iPad screen. Nonetheless, I enjoyed slewing until Nexus showed the target was supposed to be in the centre and only then looked to find it there indeed. I found this precision reassuring when identifying a couple of asteroids. The experience with less precise alt-az mounts in the past was different: I knew slewing got me with the target somewhere in the field, but then had to compare the view with the planetarium to figure out which dot was the one of interest. 
• using SkySafari reduced the need to have the observing list written on the Nexus' SD card. I'll probably still do it as a backup. BTW, I think Nexus doesn't normally write to the SD card so reliability is higher. From using a couple of Raspberry Pi of different generations, I got used to needing to reformat the card after losing power during card writes - this corrupts the file system. For important trips, I'll probably have a backup card with the same contents. Cards are more reliable now, but it's cheap insurance.

Hope this helps,

Razvan

[Stephenstargazer]

13 hours ago, Razvan said:

speaking of balance, I still have to figure out what's the best way to balance the OTA

The short answer is that you cant! You are only balancing in one axis. If you balance the scope perfectly in a horizontal position and then move the scope towards the vertical you will find the scope tips back due to offset weight of finder, eyepiece etc*. The good news is this is what sensibly adjusted friction clutches are for - different eyepieces and elevations. The vertical lock takes care of eyepiece changing.

It makes some sense to bias the balance slightly up or down so the (very small but never zero) play in bearings and the worm are taken up in one direction only. Personally I would balance with a heavier/larger eyepiece with scope around 45 degrees and let the clutches take care of the rest. Once I have found this position I do it from memory or mark the dovetail bar with a blob of 'snopake'.

If this means the clutches have to be quite firm consider a pan and tilt handle. If you use a horizontal counterweight bar and weights then the proportional effect of eyepieces etc is reduced** but not eliminated (but could be with eccentric counterweights - Derek!?) (**Edit! realised this is true but minimal, a dynamic effect of static friction. Mea culpa to physics police.)

For anyone else considering one of these mounts leveling the mount very accurately is not a requirement for aligning or observing, but if it makes you happy......

*Every type of mount has it's compromises. I know a few good alt-az mounts (such as DS) do allow balancing in the second vertical axis.  You can also offset the telescopes horizontal axis below the centre of rotation and this works very well on small scopes and az mounts with relatively heavier diagonal/eyepieces!🧐

Edited March 24, 2021 by Stephenstargazer
Error!

[Another Drizzle Dweller]

Hi Razvan

I noticed that comment about time in the Nexus manual also and wondered what would happen this weekend as our clock go forward then. You have answered that question. Thanks. There is a suggestion in the manual that time is only required for correct rise and setting time of targets etc. Like you its the first GOTO system I know that does not require Time Zones. 

And  Stephan, is that adjustment of the worms as simple as the instructions imply? I was waiting on someone to put up a UTube video

Donal

[Stephenstargazer]

42 minutes ago, Another Drizzle Dweller said:

Stephan, is that adjustment of the worms as simple as the instructions imply?

Yes Donal I would say it is easy and you cant do any harm but I dont make videos!. Winding the opposing screws inwards increases the clearance between the worm screw and the wheel. Letting them out reduces the clearance which gets rid of backlash but making the slow mo feel tighter. (If there is no clearance nothing wants to move, so you know that is wrong.)

Before starting I slack off the small dampers. Follow the excellent manual instructions step by step, especially about small changes on each side, and at the end just close the mesh screws firm but not quite tight. (This is enough to set the clearance but not permanent). Check how different this feels* and try again until you are totally happy. Then you can 'gently' tighten the mesh screws down. Worth taking the time to get it right once.

*I would also turn the scope over to be sure it feels good in other positions on the wheel - but this is being picky!)

My personal preference is to get the lightest smoothest slow motions I can to track whilst observing. The Rowan is very good due to high machining standards and in my experience can do this as well as the best I have ever used.

(Admission time - I also maintain classic cars and clocks so have a  feel for the mechanical stuff 🧐)

[Allanto]

Will soon be joining the club - order placed with Rowan for AZ100 + Nexus DSC Pro, now need to explain bank account to the other half 😀

[Steve Clay]

Could someone with the Nexus DSC box confirm if the sun is in the database. I know it's pretty unmissable when its out but it's challenging to get it in the Fov with a quark and push to would be nice.

Also does the DSC variant come with everything you need to attach the computer/ keyboard box to the mount?

Thanks

Steve

Edited March 25, 2021 by Steve Clay
Additional questions

[laudropb]

Hi Steve. I am not sure how you could align the mount during the day even if the Sun is in the database. I will check later and see if it is. But you could link the mount with sky safari and find it that way. The nexus unit comes with the mounting plate and the ball head mount for attachment to the AZ 100.

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by laudropb

[Steve Clay]

57 minutes ago, laudropb said:

Hi Steve. I am not sure how you could align the mount during the day even if the Sun is in the database. I will check later and see if it is. But you could link the mount with sky safari and find it that way. The nexus unit comes with the mounting plate and the ball head mount for attachment to the AZ 100.

 

 

 

I didn't even think about alignment.

steve 

[Telescope40]

2 hours ago, Steve Clay said:

Could someone with the Nexus DSC box confirm if the sun is in the database. I know it's pretty unmissable when its out but it's challenging to get it in the Fov with a quark and push to would be nice.

Also does the DSC variant come with everything you need to attach the computer/ keyboard box to the mount?

Thanks

Steve

Good question @Steve Clay

Had crossed my mind about some daylight planet chasing if at all possible. Guess alignment using the Sun would be needed ?? 
John 

[Razvan]

If you want precision, you can align the previous night and leave the mount untouched.