Rowan AZ100 Mount Owners Thread

[Alan White]

From what I was told by the lads, it’s work in progress and soon to become a reality.
I was shown it moving, stopping and adjusting the mount position.

Other than that watch this space for upcoming news I think.

[Space Hopper]

5 hours ago, Deadlake said:

If anyone with an interest in the AZ100 has gone to the Practical Astro Show maybe they could tell us  about this upcoming AZ100 remote control.

Thanks

That looks so user friendly, even i could use it.

[Stephenstargazer]

Perhaps this can be launched for the motorised users at the same time as the DSC control box  for the manual hardliners?  Looks very appealing and user friendly ! (Mainly due to myj touch screen phobia)

Only just clocked the spiffing new website 😋 congratulations @Dek Rowan Astro 

[Deadlake]

The joystick removes the need to keep the web front end running to control the AZ100 via a wireless gamepad.

The remote however does not have a screen. 

I would of liked the option to select a target and perform two star alignment via the  controller. A bit like the Pegasus controller:

At the moment the other option is a Nexus, that has the advantage of less screen light as the red led can be made very faint.

 

Edited March 25 by Deadlake

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Deadlake said:

The joystick removes the need to keep the web front end running to control the AZ100 via a wireless gamepad.

The remote however does not have a screen. 

I would of liked the option to select a target and perform two star alignment via the  controller. A bit like the Pegasus controller:

At the moment the other option is a Nexus, that has the advantage of less screen light as the red led can be made very faint.

 

Hopefully not having a screen will keep costs down. I use SkySafari anyway so not too much of an issue. I have it (yet to be used in anger) on a Boox e ink tablet which can be completely unlit, or very dim so works well for dark adaptation.

[Deadlake]

15 hours ago, Stu said:

Hopefully not having a screen will keep costs down. I use SkySafari anyway so not too much of an issue. I have it (yet to be used in anger) on a Boox e ink tablet which can be completely unlit, or very dim so works well for dark adaptation.

Interested to hear out you get on with e ink tablet. I was hoping maybe an OLED based tablet would be close to simulating the red led screen of the Nexus….

[josefk]

Hi all. I have an AZ100 mount question for the SGL hive mind.

Specifically does anyone have practical experience of completely “overloading” the mount with a 25kg plus (short) OTA on one side?

I have this weight on the mount split across dual mounted scopes on occasion and somehow it can be even nicer than mounting a single ~15kg scope on one side (though I don’t know if I’m imagining this “even better damped” sensation).

I’m considering a larger aperture scope (than my ~8” CC) and the real step improvement for the targets I have in mind would be 12” and heavy (though probably short). 

I really really don’t want to have to think about another mount plus new scope (…and I don’t want a Dob)

cheers
 

 

[Stu]

27 minutes ago, josefk said:

Hi all. I have an AZ100 mount question for the SGL hive mind.

Specifically does anyone have practical experience of completely “overloading” the mount with a 25kg plus (short) OTA on one side?

I have this weight on the mount split across dual mounted scopes on occasion and somehow it can be even nicer than mounting a single ~15kg scope on one side (though I don’t know if I’m imagining this “even better damped” sensation).

I’m considering a larger aperture scope (than my ~8” CC) and the real step improvement for the targets I have in mind would be 12” and heavy (though probably short). 

I really really don’t want to have to think about another mount plus new scope (…and I don’t want a Dob)

cheers
 

 

Firstly, I do agree that dual scopes seem to behave better than single scopes for reasons I can’t explain. I guess the errors just balance out but I agree, balance and motion seems better.

I’ve not tried overloading the mount, but I suspect the mount would cope with 25kg despite being rated at 15 to 20kg. Of course you do so at your own risk in case of damage to the mount, but the most likely risk is that the whole rig topples over if not counter-balanced correctly.

The most I’ve used is my 150mm f10 PST mod. Not sure how much it weighs, maybe 15kg, I’ll check it soon, but it is very long so does suffer from some vibrations.

One thing I am planning on trying is to make a rig that mounts the scope on top and uses both clamps, somewhat like this example that Peter Drew uses. I think that it will spread the load better and possibly reduce vibrations. Not sure how well it would work with a Newt (which I assume you are planning on, might make the eyepiece height too high?

[josefk]

Hi @Stu i also wonder about that top mounted bridge concept attached into both sides of the mount - i've talked about it with Derek at one of the astro shows before. The TTS panther follows that concept.

A newt would be the sensible (and possibly most economic) choice,  i'm aware of the fairly lightweight OO ones and APM have some truss ones too (though not so light) but actually i'm having a wonder about this Cassegrain.I like the ergonomics of a Cassegrain and i think it will suit the targets i have in mind (small things):

It's a 24kg OTA - plus diagonal and EP say 25.5kg loaded. I've just realised it will be nearly a meter long (i thought it was shorter) but i assume (from having the 8") that a lot of that weight will be at the back and very close to the pivot of the mount. The safe choice would be the 10" at 17kg but the 10" isn't quite 10" (like the 8" isn't quite 8") and doesn't bring "enough" of an improvement in scale at a given exit pupil. The 12" would give me >50% bigger objects for the same exit pupil as my "not quite 8" 8". 

i think i'm going to jury rig some kind of overload apparatus and make a practical test with the kit i have loaded up to the weight i'm considering. 

[Stu]

1 hour ago, josefk said:

Hi @Stu i also wonder about that top mounted bridge concept attached into both sides of the mount - i've talked about it with Derek at one of the astro shows before. The TTS panther follows that concept.

Cool. I sourced a couple of dovetails so I can build myself something out of 18mm ply and will see how that goes with my 150mm

[Deadlake]

@josefk I did discuss having a top mount saddle with Derek however impractical as it would collide with the motors on the top of the AZ100.

Either an AZ150 is needed, APM AtlZ heavy mount or you could look at a HAZ71 that will easily take the load.

Edited April 5 by Deadlake

[josefk]

I'll take a look at those @Deadlake thanks but my plan a and plan b is to try and do this with the az100. i don't use motors and i'm unlikely to i think...

[Dek Rowan Astro]

On 04/04/2024 at 09:21, josefk said:

Hi all. I have an AZ100 mount question for the SGL hive mind.

Specifically does anyone have practical experience of completely “overloading” the mount with a 25kg plus (short) OTA on one side?

cheers
 

 

We loaded the AZ100 with 35kg on one side with no counterbalance as part of the motor kit testing, so technically 'overloaded', the mount worked OK but this wasn't an observation test, purely a functional test.

The 20kg limit /guide is conservative and is more of a "it'll work nicely"  with this load rather than it will stop working or break at 20.1Kg

Length of telescope and mass distribution is as much as a factor as the weight as is also the users expectation, so the20kg limit is stated where the mount performance would be expected to start to tail off.

At what point the weight to performance curve starts to significantly affect viewing depends on many factors.

With a 25kg OTA I would recommend having a  good proportion of that weight  added to the opposite side in counterbalance weights.

Stelarvue tested one of their SVX180 refractors mounted on a AZ100 (about 22kg in total) and were very pleased with the performance which is one of the bigger OTAs that we're aware of that has been mounted on a AZ100. As a result Stelarvue now stock the AZ100 as a recommended pairing for their bigger refractors :-)

 

Jose, you're welcome to call into our works, we can set up a load test to simulate a 25kg short OTA in order to get a feel for how this would perform.

ATB

Derek.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Dek Rowan Astro

[josefk]

Thanks Derek @Dek Rowan Astro and for your help on email. I've run into a "small" problem with the 12" Cassegrain anyway - basically the picture on FLO (that i used above) could do with a tin of beans in it for scale (actually a shelf stackers carton of beans in this case) 🤣.

I haven't seen one in the flesh but from this you tube video i fear even unmounted i'm going to struggle humping this thing about both in person and in my vehicle never mind storing it (RC shown in the screen shot but the CC i was considering has the same dimensions)...

...so its back to the drawing board for a bit...

Cheers

[Stephenstargazer]

Heads up ! The DSC 100 (or75) Controller for manual mounts is now listed on the Rowan website. 

https://rowanengineering.com/products/dsc100

Maybe the Handset will be next?

 

Edited April 17 by Stephenstargazer

[Manoj77]

How is this different to the controller that came with my AZ 100 go to system and motor is etc.?

thanks.

[Stephenstargazer]

Put simply it does not control motors but provides a connection to planetarium apps (including Rowan's) for manual mounts. DSC = digital setting circles, enabling use of encoders without 3rd party hardware. 

Edited Sunday at 17:49 by Stephenstargazer
Typo

[bobo99]

Looking at this mount but this line from the manual gives me pause.

Has anyone tried to use it like this ? How does the mount behave in this use case ?  Using the mount manually but still requiring power and and setting changes doesn't seem great

Edited Wednesday at 13:33 by bobo99

[swsantos]

The "noticeable resistance" in the slow motion controls with the motors powered off is relative to the no resistance at all without the motor kit installed however that noticeable reststance is as smooth as butter and does not bother me in the least and in the context of a slow motion control being used to move the mount only a little at a time it is fine. When using the mount manually with slow motion controls my AZ100 is powered off completely.

[bobo99]

7 hours ago, swsantos said:

The "noticeable resistance" in the slow motion controls with the motors powered off is relative to the no resistance at all without the motor kit installed however that noticeable reststance is as smooth as butter and does not bother me in the least and in the context of a slow motion control being used to move the mount only a little at a time it is fine. When using the mount manually with slow motion controls my AZ100 is powered off completely.

And I take it no concern with the motors back EMF causing enough voltage to fry something?

[swsantos]

1 hour ago, bobo99 said:

And I take it no concern with the motors back EMF causing enough voltage to fry something?

I use the mount so infrequently that way, meaning manually with slow motion controls in a not-motorized session, and when I do I am turning the knobs very slowly and very little anyway that I am not concerned. I have spoken to Derek on the phone about using the slow motion controls with the motors installed and he said basically not to turn them with the power on because the belts can be damaged but that I could use them with the mount powered off if I am OK with the resistance (which I am). He never said anything about turning them with the motors off being bad for the mount or that it was a frying risk, that it simply was not as fluid as an experience as it was before I installed the motor kit on my mount. I may be wrong and I may have misinterpreted what he said, but I never felt that he was telling me not to use the slow motion controls with the mount powered off, but instead he was telling me that there would be resistance in the system where before there wasn't.

I think that the verbiage from the manual specifically "If the mount is powered off the slow motions can still be used but..." strongly implies that it is fine to do so they would not say that they could still be used if it was bad to do so, and that "therefore it is recommended that the slow motions are only used manually when the mount is powered on and the motors are turned off on the webpage"  is telling us that if the mount's slow motion controls need to be used with the mount powered on that the motors have to be turned off first before doing so.

 

[Dek Rowan Astro]

19 hours ago, bobo99 said:

And I take it no concern with the motors back EMF causing enough voltage to fry something?

I haven't managed to blow anything up by turning the slow motion controls with the mount unpowered and not aware of any mout failing because of this. BUT, I have no data on how many users operate the GOTO mount unpowered. I guess very few, but each mount produced is operated like this when in testing, so we would have seen a failure by now if it was an issue. It is possible to break just about anything if a sufficiently concerted effort is made, so best not try 😉

Back EMF is produced when turning the slow mo's, it is also possible to see the power LED flicker slightly, I might take a closer look at this to test what voltage levels are actually produced.

ATB

Derek

 

[Stephenstargazer]

On 24/04/2024 at 14:31, bobo99 said:

setting changes doesn't seem great

On the main screen of the controller web page there is a button (red/green) to switch motors on/off - no big deal at all and useful during alignment. There is also a screen joystick to use, instead of the manual slow motions, if you prefer for small alignment moves.

(The logic behind the warning is that the motors will be tracking already and you would be fighting against them by using manual slow motions, which the motors are already driving through a belt. However since the mount also has friction clutches and encoders you can always 'nudge' or push the scope in any direction any time you like even when it is tracking/motors running and it wont lose it's sky position.  This is not like a conventional geared goto mount)