Atik Cameras looking to buy QSI assets.

[Davey-T]

A QSI camera made in Europe and serviced in the UK would be the best of both worlds, I recently sent one of my Atiks of for servicing, fixed and returned drama free in a couple of weeks.

Theoretically they should be cheaper.

Dave

[Stub Mandrel]

The problem with customer service is that no company can be 100% consistent and what one customer wants isn't always what another does.

Our individual experiences can be greatly at odds with the experiences of others.

My personal take on customer service is be a good customer and assume good faith - unless the company tries to flannel you.

[Tim]

5 hours ago, RayD said:

You're spot on with the OAG Sara.  I have the 16200 which would generally be used on a larger OTA as it is a very large sensor, and just getting the brand new EFW3, but I can't use the Atik "matching" OAG as it won't work on my Esprit with the SW flattener. 

They need to rethink there.

Is the EFW3 a bit wider than the EFW2 Ray? 

[RayD]

7 minutes ago, Tim said:

Is the EFW3 a bit wider than the EFW2 Ray? 

No ironically it is 0.2mm thinner Tim, and has the ability for direct fixing to the front of my 16200, but that still leaves it 4mm short of fitting with the SW FF and Atik OAG which is a real shame.

Hopefully have it earlier next week so will put an opening, connecting and test video on my YT channel.

[Tim]

1 minute ago, RayD said:

No ironically it is 0.2mm thinner Tim, and has the ability for direct fixing to the front of my 16200, but that still leaves it 4mm short of fitting with Atik OAG which is a real shame.

Hopefully have it earlier next week so will put an opening, connecting and test video on my YT channel.

What is the spacing requirement on the 100ED then? I'm guessing it is not the 100mm you get with the 150ED? 

[RayD]

3 minutes ago, Tim said:

What is the spacing requirement on the 100ED then? I'm guessing it is not the 100mm you get with the 150ED? 

No sadly it's only 55mm.  It's not a disaster as it is only 550fl so I use it quite happily with a separate 60mm guider.  Would be nice to have the OAG though.  I may swap it over and use it on my new Tak 106 which obviously doesn't have the same issue.

[tomato]

I think it’s wonderful news.

One note of caution, as someone who has managed (on paper at least) to work for the same company for 40 years, and witnessed many corporate and private equity acquisitions in that time, I do hope Atik don’t overstretch themselves and we end up losing two wonderful camera manufacturers.

I have no idea of Atik’s financial status so the comment could be completely out of order, so apologies in advance to any Atik company directors who may be reading this.

[RayD]

3 minutes ago, tomato said:

I think it’s wonderful news.

One note of caution, as someone who has managed (on paper at least) to work for the same company for 40 years, and witnessed many corporate and private equity acquisitions in that time, I do hope Atik don’t overstretch themselves and we end up losing two wonderful camera manufacturers.

I have no idea of Atik’s financial status so the comment could be completely out of order, so apologies in advance to any Atik company directors who may be reading this.

I was reading the investors information, open to public, and it notes that it is their holding company (SDI) making the purchase, and as the projected cost is listed as £300k it isn't a huge investment for the potential gain.

[tomato]

Good to know, I had no idea of the scale of the investment. As you say,  not quite on the scale that I was considering.

[Adam J]

Huum, QSI so fantastic they are getting taken over by ATIK and not the other way around. The low volume premium brand business model only works up to a point and clearly not so well as ATIKs business model. Couple of predictions:

1) ATIK will reign in QSI to keep the premium image but make the brand more profitable by trimming the fat on their designs.

2) In the next ten years ATIK will get bought out by either QHY or ZWO, the writing is on the wall the Horizon is overpriced in comparison to the already successful ASI1600mmc.

ATIK and QSI are getting left behind by the pace of development of new cameras by QHY and ZWO, they simply do not have the resources to match that pace of development. There are a couple of mono CMOS sensor coming out soon that look interesting, I predict QHY and ZWO will have them to marked before the end of 2018 and ATIK....some time in 2020 if we are lucky.

 

[swag72]

4 hours ago, Adam J said:

Huum, QSI so fantastic they are getting taken over by ATIK and not the other way around. The low volume premium brand business model only works up to a point and clearly not so well as ATIKs business model.......

I guess you are not aware of why / how the QSI issue came about? 

[RayD]

7 hours ago, Adam J said:

Huum, QSI so fantastic they are getting taken over by ATIK and not the other way around. The low volume premium brand business model only works up to a point and clearly not so well as ATIKs business model. Couple of predictions:

1) ATIK will reign in QSI to keep the premium image but make the brand more profitable by trimming the fat on their designs.

2) In the next ten years ATIK will get bought out by either QHY or ZWO, the writing is on the wall the Horizon is overpriced in comparison to the already successful ASI1600mmc.

ATIK and QSI are getting left behind by the pace of development of new cameras by QHY and ZWO, they simply do not have the resources to match that pace of development. There are a couple of mono CMOS sensor coming out soon that look interesting, I predict QHY and ZWO will have them to marked before the end of 2018 and ATIK....some time in 2020 if we are lucky.

 

The situation only arose due to the founder, CEO and chief developer of QSI, Neal Barry, dying suddenly, so not really a large scale hostile corporate takeover.  At £2.5M turnover, Atik Cameras Ltd is still quite small, and significantly smaller than QSI were.

I'm not sure how much you know about QSI, but the astro side of the business, as with Atik, is only a portion.  They work in other imaging and scientific areas, including medical research, and it is only the astro imaging side that Atik is declaring an interest in (hence the £300k price tag).  I suspect this is largely to buy out the patents on designs that QSI has, and are of interest to Atik.  

I think you are right that ZWO is doing well, but for me personally they would do better if they adopted the Atik model of test in house first, then deliver to the market when ready.  To use an example, I have an Atik 460EX, which is one of Atik's most popular.  Very reliable, and exactly the same design now as it was when it was released in 2014.  The ASI1600MM has only been out less than 2 years and yet is already on iteration 3 as the first two needed improvements (cooling and memory).  Would you now buy an original design ASI1600MM?  I wouldn't, and I suspect most now would look at the "Pro" model, but I doubt that in 2 years I'll be deciding which version of the Horizon to buy, other than to select a certain size of sensor.

This is in no way a little dig at ZWO, I have a few of their cameras and they are fine, but with the ASI1600MM they did seem to rush it to market only to find that, 2 revisions later, the first one actually didn't work that well at all.

Back on topic, it is a sad chain of circumstances with the passing of Neal Barry that led to the situation we are discussing now, and I, and I am sure the majority of others, really hope that Atik can take on board many of the QSI designs and bring them to market in their normal style as that would make a formidable product, and one I would certainly be investing in.

[ollypenrice]

I fervently hope that the astro camera market can remain in the hands of small specialists and that Europe will continue to have its share of them.  There are many reasons for my view, some outside the remit of SGL, but having to ship intercontinentally for service is never going to be an advantage. Also there is a relationship between customers and manufacturers within specialist communities which bring advantages to both sides.

Olly

[steppenwolf]

6 hours ago, Adam J said:

Huum, QSI so fantastic they are getting taken over by ATIK and not the other way around. The low volume premium brand business model only works up to a point and clearly not so well as ATIKs business model.

You really do need to look a little closer at why QSI is up for sale as you are currently wide of the mark!

[Davey-T]

2 hours ago, RayD said:

Huum, QSI so fantastic they are getting taken over by ATIK and not the other way around. The low volume premium brand business model only works up to a point and clearly not so well as ATIKs business model. Couple of predictions:

In the grand scheme of things the whole astro' camera business is a niche market, the manufacturers are basically doing us a favour producing dedicated astro versions of them.

Their main business is in cameras for scientific and manufacturing uses, without these needs there would not be the range of stuff available to us.

If there was that much demand then Canon would probably take their sensors of the production line before covering them with RGB lenses and sell them as mono sensors for astro' imaging 

Dave

Apologies Ray the quote appears to be attributed to you

 

[RayD]

2 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Apologies Ray the quote appears to be attributed to you

That's ok Dave.  I'm not quoted very often, other than to tell me what I've said is a load of rubbish, so this is a refreshing change 

[Jonk]

To me, this on paper looks like a great thing. One company buying another's patents allowing them to use their designs.

Having also seen multiple corporate take overs and changes where I work, I hope for the QSI designer's sake that they are used properly and respected rather than shoved aside, as can happen.

All of this is immaterial, as if they do bring out a QSAtik 11000 or something, I wouldn't get one.

Mainly because I couldn't afford it or a scope to match, which is why I have a humble Moravian G2 8300!

[sloz1664]

Humble Moravian G2 8300!  I could buy a small second hand car for the price of that camera 

 

[Davey-T]

12 minutes ago, sloz1664 said:

Humble Moravian G2 8300!  I could buy a small second hand car for the price of that camera 

 

You could by my old car 3 X for the price of one 

Dave

[RayD]

14 minutes ago, sloz1664 said:

Humble Moravian G2 8300!  I could buy a small second hand car for the price of that camera 

 

I thought the same.  It is a great camera, and certainly far from humble.  I'd have one.

[RayD]

13 hours ago, Tim said:

What is the spacing requirement on the 100ED then? I'm guessing it is not the 100mm you get with the 150ED? 

This got me looking Tim as the difference between the two figures is quite a lot.  On the details on the 150 page @FLO it shows the following:

• When fitting a DSLR camera you need only a M48 Ring to suit your Canon or Nikon camera. No additional spacers are required.
• The spacing for dedicated CCD imaging cameras is 96mm from mating surface. 
• The rear thread is M48. When using T-threaded accessories you will need a FLO M48-T adapter.

I can only assume something here is wrong as if you fit a M48 ring, the spacing would only be 55mm, but it shows 96mm is needed.  This was where I struggled at the beginning with mine as I think the early details from SW were actually incorrect.

My 100 is set at 55.6mm and shows a very flat field over my APS-H sensor.

[steppenwolf]

9 minutes ago, RayD said:

I can only assume something here is wrong as if you fit a M48 ring, the spacing would only be 55mm, but it shows 96mm is needed.

SW supply a suitable extension tube with the 150 ED/FF package and its length is taken into account in their calculations. I can confirm that the 96mm figure is correct and that the extension tube is item '3' in the exploded diagram in the 150 ED manual.

Extraction from SW Esprit 150 Manual

[RayD]

1 minute ago, steppenwolf said:

SW supply a suitable extension tube with the 150 ED/FF package and its length is taken into account in their calculations. I can confirm that the 96mm figure is correct and that the extension tube is item '3' in the exploded diagram in the 150 ED manual.

Extraction from SW Esprit 150 Manual

 

Ah ok that makes sense Steve, thanks.  96mm certainly gives far more scope for accessories.

[RayD]

Btw I wasn't questioning the 96mm, that made perfect sense, only the fact that screwing a T-ring straight on would only offer 55mm, but seeing now it comes with an extender, that also now makes perfect sense.

[kirkster501]

I would have bought a QSI 683 had they been available at the time I bought my 8300 chip camera in November.  I am always happy to pay more for the very best.  I waited and waited (and took the grilling on SGL for dithering )  for four months for the situation to sort itself out and it hadn't so went elsewhere with Moravian and I am delighted with that camera.  I am also delighted with my Atik 460 - been as solid as a rock since 2012 when I bought it.  Not missed a beat.

So this is good news indeed.  it will be interesting to see what they do with the intellectual assets when (if) they acquire them.