Buying agricultural land to put an observatory on.

[Ouroboros]

Has anyone any experience of buying agricultural land to put an observatory on?

I'm weighing up the possibility of buying a 30 square metre piece  of agricultural land  in the field behind our house. 

Several issues occur to me. The cost is likely to far outstrip the value of the land, given solicitor and land registry costs. Then there are issue around change of land use which might be complicated and require planning approval. 

I'd be very interested to hear any issues people might like to comment on. 

[Pan Euro]

First thing I would do is talk to your local council planning department. They are normally very helpful.

[xtreemchaos]

ask to rent might be a option, don't think planning would be a problem unless its huge or you want to live in it. charl.

[steppenwolf]

If you can place your observatory on a 'sledge' so it can be moved, you could most probably avoid any planning restrictions - I suspect that getting planning approval would be expensive and probably not possible so play the rules to your advantage ensuring that you don't break the law, just comply with it as required.

[Kropster]

Perhaps the difficulties surrounding planning permission explain why you just don't see observatories and other small buildings dotted around the countryside on agricultural land?

[Rusted]

Be prepared to allow the farmer to choose the position and layout of your plot.

He may need to get large machines or tractors and trailers around your 'obstacle.'

So a strip close to your boundary may be best. Middle of a field not so much.

If animals are grazed on the field it will need professional fencing and a secure access gate.

We bought a triangle of adjoining land from the local farmer without serious issue.

However, nothing was to be built on it and it was only landscaped as lawn.

He arranged the pro animal fencers for a very reasonable sum.

He kept bulls, horses, sheep and cattle in there so a strong fence was obligatory.

Seriously consider discussing renting rather than purchase. So much easier for both of you.

What's a crate of beer between friends?

Above all, be flexible. 

[Ouroboros]

Thanks all for the prompt and varied replies. 

My first thought was to rent the land if possible, but then the farmer probably wouldn't want to be left with a concrete base to deal with sometime in the future. 

Our garden ends in an L shape so from the farmer's POV it's a corner. So it would be easy to fence off a triangle. It's his boundary anyway and he currently maintains the hedge and fence that borders our garden. So fencing and hedging wouldn't be a problem, though of course I'd have to pay for that to be done. 

My reading around suggests that planning approval is required because it's a change of use from agricultural land to garden. I don't think planning approval is required for the observatory because like a shed it's a temporary building. 

[Alan White]

An interesting proposition, I can see why it is of appeal to you.

As you say costs will no doubt surpass the value, but is that really a problem if you get the space you desire?

Wish you well with that and look forward to any updates.

[happy-kat]

Is a concrete base considered temporary? Sheds are often put on concrete blocks which are moveable.

[tooth_dr]

34 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Thanks all for the prompt and varied replies. 

My first thought was to rent the land if possible, but then the farmer probably wouldn't want to be left with a concrete base to deal with sometime in the future. 

Our garden ends in an L shape so from the farmer's POV it's a corner. So it would be easy to fence off a triangle. It's his boundary anyway and he currently maintains the hedge and fence that borders our garden. So fencing and hedging wouldn't be a problem, though of course I'd have to pay for that to be done. 

My reading around suggests that planning approval is required because it's a change of use from agricultural land to garden. I don't think planning approval is required for the observatory because like a shed it's a temporary building. 

Sorry I reread your post. My comment is not really relevant.  It's more the land issue than the obsy issue that is your concern. 

[Stub Mandrel]

I would go and have a chat with the farmer. If you do exchange emails or letters before going into an agreement put 'without prejudice' at the top, that stops any musings he or you have are not part of any final contract.

A licence to use the land to site a temporary structure probably wouldn't require any legal backup. Much easier than renting, I've let a few grazing licences in the past and it wasn't much more than a letter confirming what we had agreed.

All it needs are  a few clauses to say that a) you won't try and establish agricultural tenancy, what you will pay c) notice periods for each side d) that you won't interfere with each others legitimate activities and e) that you will leave the land as you found it (unless he agrees you can make a concrete pad for milk churns etc...)

[Ouroboros]

21 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

Is a concrete base considered temporary? Sheds are often put on concrete blocks which are moveable.

Actually in saying "temporary" I'm probably using the wrong word. Sheds, observatories, greenhouses etc come under the rules for outbuildings and are called permitted buildings. They are covered by certain constraints about height and distance from a boundary and so on,  but as I understand it a concrete base doesn't affect things. But others on here who have built observatories will probably have a better understanding of the law. 

[Ouroboros]

10 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I would go and have a chat with the farmer. If you do exchange emails or letters before going into an agreement put 'without prejudice' at the top, that stops any musings he or you have are not part of any final contract.

A licence to use the land to site a temporary structure probably wouldn't require any legal backup. Much easier than renting, I've let a few grazing licences in the past and it wasn't much more than a letter confirming what we had agreed.

All it needs are  a few clauses to say that a) you won't try and establish agricultural tenancy, what you will pay c) notice periods for each side d) that you won't interfere with each others legitimate activities and e) that you will leave the land as you found it (unless he agrees you can make a concrete pad for milk churns etc...)

This is interesting. Thank you. I wasn't aware of licensing. 

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

This is interesting. Thank you. I wasn't aware of licensing. 

It basically grants you a right 'licence' o do something, without him giving up the landholders rights, so he could still access the land if he wanted to, for example, but not interfere with your legitimate use of it.

[ACross]

Be careful with the planning issue, the rules change regularly and locally. I was told verbally by Suffolk CC that my obs would require full a planning application as it is within two metres of the boundary (used to be one metre), but the height was not relevant. I was then told it did not need planning permission for an equipment store with a temporary cover and the rotating dome could not be classed as a roof. It can come down to the individual planners opinion.

There are advantages to farmers who keep land set aside for wildlife. A corner of a field is ideal as a meadow area and so long as you cen keep the mice and other cable munchers out, you could be helping by maintaining the land around the obs. I second the idea of a discussion with the owner to bat around some thoughts and agree on what works for you both.

[Rusted]

Is a concrete slab really necessary?

Pre-cast Carport footings/anchors are simply dropped into a hole and back-filled with soil.

Inexpensive and needs no more than a spade and digging bar/crowbar if you hit rocks.

Here are a few being put to good use:

[AKB]

53 minutes ago, Rusted said:

Is a concrete slab really necessary?

I have my observatory on a sleeper base, although the pier itself does have a concrete plinth. 

 

[ollypenrice]

You only need a solid base for the pier, not the entire shed. That could stand on heavy but temporary footings, surely?

Having a fixed observatory is so nice that it's well worth a bit of investment in cash and time.

Olly

[Ouroboros]

1 hour ago, ollypenrice said:

You only need a solid base for the pier, not the entire shed. That could stand on heavy but temporary footings, surely?

Having a fixed observatory is so nice that it's well worth a bit of investment in cash and time.

Olly

Yes, I'm sure you're right. My current arrangement of a warm room (shed) is placed on some 3x2 foot concrete slabs we found buried in the garden. They're not cemented in or anything. The Cornish ground is so stony it was just a matter of levelling and compacting the ground before placing the slabs on top and the shed onto those. It ain't going anywhere.  My observing area is more found slabs sunk onto a skim of concrete. It's fine for tripod use. 

But I'm sure you're right about only needing a concrete base for the pier. There are all sorts of bases available for sheds now including a variety of plastic honeycombed bases that they claim can be put straight onto a hard ground surface or into a layer of sand. 

 

[Peter Drew]

I bought 12 acres of land to establish the Astronomy Centre, no question of renting as ownership could change as well as the arrangement. It was originally worked as a clay pipe factory (irrigation pipes), it had been bought out by a company that made the same thing in plastic and the existing factory was bulldozed down. The Planners were keen for anyone to clear the despoilment so our application for an astronomical complex was looked upon favourably. This was in the early 1980's and due to the condition of the land reasonably priced. I don't recall the planning process being particularly complicated or expensive, in fact at a planning meeting which we attended discussing the pros and cons of our application, one of the Planners got up and said "I think we should just let these people get on with it". Meeting adjourned. An architect friend designed the main building, purposely leaving in a couple of minor planning issues for the Planners to nit pick over to justify their position. No change of use was required, the only stipulation from the planners was that the stonework should blend in with the surrounding area. 

[Ouroboros]

2 hours ago, Peter Drew said:

I bought 12 acres of land to establish the Astronomy Centre, no question of renting as ownership could change as well as the arrangement. It was originally worked as a clay pipe factory (irrigation pipes), it had been bought out by a company that made the same thing in plastic and the existing factory was bulldozed down. The Planners were keen for anyone to clear the despoilment so our application for an astronomical complex was looked upon favourably. This was in the early 1980's and due to the condition of the land reasonably priced. I don't recall the planning process being particularly complicated or expensive, in fact at a planning meeting which we attended discussing the pros and cons of our application, one of the Planners got up and said "I think we should just let these people get on with it". Meeting adjourned. An architect friend designed the main building, purposely leaving in a couple of minor planning issues for the Planners to nit pick over to justify their position. No change of use was required, the only stipulation from the planners was that the stonework should blend in with the surrounding area. 

Amazing dedication. I've just looked at the website. Amazing setup and equipment.