First telescope EQ or Goto Altazimuth

[Ewalks77]

Hello all this is my first post here and I just had some questions about my first telescope/mount I'm probably buying in the next couple weeks. I have done a lot of research on what scope may be best for me and with me living in a well lit area (Lansing, MI) I've pretty much decided that I will be getting a refractor. With that being said and my budget being somewhere between $400-$700 (with mount included) I have narrowed it down to 2 telescopes that I'm looking very intently at. First being the NEXSTAR 102SLT with Goto Altazimuth mount (around $500). Reason being is it's my first scope and I believe I may need the Goto to help me find my way around the skies as I've heard using an EQ mount is very frustrating and complicated for someone to first learn with. My second scope is the Celestron Omni XLT 120mm, from the reviews I've read it is a great scope, much better than the 102, but does come with an EQ mount. I can afford both but don't want to buy the better scope if it really is that hard to learn the sky. 

My main goal at first with getting a scope is just observing some planets and the moons. Eventually I will get into DSO's and whatnot but have heard that I will need a place with low light pollution and a bigger aperture.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated especially from someone who has purchased one, or both of these scopes before.

 

I hope to hear your feedback soon. Thank you

 

[Charic]

Whatever you get, enjoy the process and welcome to the SGL.

[laudropb]

Hello and a warm welcome to the SGL. I would recommend going with the AZ mount. EQ mounts can be frustrating for a beginner, although if you have a local astroclub where you can  get some help with the set up, the 120 mm scope will allow you higher magnifications the sky conditions permitting. Have you a particular reason for wanting a refractor over a reflector?

[happy-kat]

The 102 will I think show more chromatic aberration on very bright objects then the 120. F6.7 versus f8. My little 80mm f5 shows CA on the Moon on the limb edge and on say Jupiter but I can live with it, some don't like it.

See if other suppliers do the 120 on an altaz mount to widen your choice.

[Putaendo Patrick]

Personally I'd go with a better telescope rather than goto if the budget is limited. While goto can make finding targets much easier, learning to find them manually will teach you a whole lot more. Download the Stellarium program for your computer, maybe get a star map ap for your phone, and buy the book Turn Left at Orion and you should be ready to go!

I have the Celestron 120 Omni and I'm very happy with it. You might also look at Skywatcher and Bresser who do very similar models. Yes, there are better refractors but at a whole different price level! The supplied CG4 equatorial mount is good enough, and you will soon get used to it. For visual observing, you don't need to set it up very precisely. Be aware, though, that the 120 is a relatively large telescope - I'm not certain that any of the less expensive alt-az mounts would support it. EQ mounts do take a bit of practice at the beginning, lbut you'll soon get used to it.

[Ben the Ignorant]

You could buy the Sky-Watcher 120/1000 tube instead of its more expensive Celestron clone, and with the money you save, get a heavy-duty manual alt-az mount.

[Stormbringer]

8 hours ago, Putaendo Patrick said:

Personally I'd go with a better telescope rather than goto if the budget is limited. While goto can make finding targets much easier, learning to find them manually will teach you a whole lot more. Download the Stellarium program for your computer, maybe get a star map ap for your phone, and buy the book Turn Left at Orion and you should be ready to go!

I have the Celestron 120 Omni and I'm very happy with it. You might also look at Skywatcher and Bresser who do very similar models. Yes, there are better refractors but at a whole different price level! The supplied CG4 equatorial mount is good enough, and you will soon get used to it. For visual observing, you don't need to set it up very precisely. Be aware, though, that the 120 is a relatively large telescope - I'm not certain that any of the less expensive alt-az mounts would support it. EQ mounts do take a bit of practice at the beginning, lbut you'll soon get used to it.

you can buy Stellarium for your android phone or tablet off google playstore i think it is about £4 it may also be available on I Phone etc

[skywatcher58gb]

Welcome Ewalks77 and a nice little discussion you have started. I have a Skywatcher Startravel 102, a Skywatcher Evostar 120 and both the Skywatcher EQ3-2 and HEQ5 mounts, these are the lighter duty and heavier duty equatorial mounts similar to the one you are considering. Having used the 120 on the EQ3-2 mount and although it works I find the mount a wee bit too near the knuckle for this size of scope, it works fine on the HEQ5. Have a look at the following post on the lounge; TAL 100RS or Evostar 120 ... that age-old discussion. If I were in your position I would also consider the TAL 100RS on an EQ5 mount, an optically good scope on a solid mount. I am not sure of the costs in dollars this would need to be checked out, also the equatorial mounts are not that difficult to use they just take a bit longer to get your head around. Whatever you decide enjoy the ride.

 

[iPeace]

Welcome.

Learning about the sky is fun. I made the decision not to get anything go-to, as that would - for me - be too much like watching television. As it is, we have two televisions in the house so that one of them can be kept switched off at all times.

Is it hard to learn about the sky? Well, it doesn't have to be. Assuming you use a computer - that's how you got here, right? - you can download and install Stellarium for free, that's a great tool for learning about what's where. Great books out there as well.

Can you do without learning about the sky? Well, I suppose you could just rely on go-to. Nothing inherently wrong with that. But you'd miss out on the fun...

However... go-to does require some setting up, it needs to know where it is and where it's pointing, so that's something that you'd need to learn about, too. Same goes for an equatorial mount; it requires proper alignment and does take getting used to. Plus, anything that is motorized has an electric motor, which requires power and, well, to me that's just another thing that can break.

A manual alt-az mount is the simplest, most intuitive option. Left, right, up and down. Want to see what's over there? Just point.

I have a separate, related, question for you: have you used binoculars to look at the night sky? If you haven't, I suggest you give it a try before getting any type of scope. A decent pair of bins shows you so much, and teaches you a lot in a short time about what's up there. And they are completely self-contained, and easy-peasy to use. For me, bins are the most fun per dollar spent.

[Ewalks77]

17 hours ago, laudropb said:

Hello and a warm welcome to the SGL. I would recommend going with the AZ mount. EQ mounts can be frustrating for a beginner, although if you have a local astroclub where you can  get some help with the set up, the 120 mm scope will allow you higher magnifications the sky conditions permitting. Have you a particular reason for wanting a refractor over a reflector?

Well, just mainly from the research of done. It was also suggested by one of my friends who is an experienced astronomer, that I get a refractor because of of the fact that I live in a city with a pretty decent amount of light pollution. He told me a dobsonian would be great but I would need dark conditions for me to get a lot of use out of it.

[Ewalks77]

Thank you everyone for tour replies, I had no idea I would get such a response. You have been very helpful, really, more helpfulthan all the reviews I've read as I feel like I can't trust a lot of them lol. 

[Ewalks77]

4 hours ago, skywatcher58gb said:

Welcome Ewalks77 and a nice little discussion you have started. I have a Skywatcher Startravel 102, a Skywatcher Evostar 120 and both the Skywatcher EQ3-2 and HEQ5 mounts, these are the lighter duty and heavier duty equatorial mounts similar to the one you are considering. Having used the 120 on the EQ3-2 mount and although it works I find the mount a wee bit too near the knuckle for this size of scope, it works fine on the HEQ5. Have a look at the following post on the lounge; TAL 100RS or Evostar 120 ... that age-old discussion. If I were in your position I would also consider the TAL 100RS on an EQ5 mount, an optically good scope on a solid mount. I am not sure of the costs in dollars this would need to be checked out, also the equatorial mounts are not that difficult to use they just take a bit longer to get your head around. Whatever you decide enjoy the ride.

 

 

[Ewalks77]

Thank you for your reply my friend.  To answer your question, no I have not tried binoculars. Reason being, I'm not sure if they would show me the views that I would like to see. Like seeing Jupiter and the big red spot, possibly it's moons. Also I've recently gotten my taxes back and being that I have a bit of a spending problem lol I would like to buy a really decent scope while I have the cash to do so and maybe then get some binoculars to help me along my journey. This is huge rookie mistake I'm sure haha.

[Ewalks77]

3 hours ago, iPeace said:

Welcome.

Learning about the sky is fun. I made the decision not to get anything go-to, as that would - for me - be too much like watching television. As it is, we have two televisions in the house so that one of them can be kept switched off at all times.

Is it hard to learn about the sky? Well, it doesn't have to be. Assuming you use a computer - that's how you got here, right? - you can download and install Stellarium for free, that's a great tool for learning about what's where. Great books out there as well.

Can you do without learning about the sky? Well, I suppose you could just rely on go-to. Nothing inherently wrong with that. But you'd miss out on the fun...

However... go-to does require some setting up, it needs to know where it is and where it's pointing, so that's something that you'd need to learn about, too. Same goes for an equatorial mount; it requires proper alignment and does take getting used to. Plus, anything that is motorized has an electric motor, which requires power and, well, to me that's just another thing that can break.

A manual alt-az mount is the simplest, most intuitive option. Left, right, up and down. Want to see what's over there? Just point.

I have a separate, related, question for you: have you used binoculars to look at the night sky? If you haven't, I suggest you give it a try before getting any type of scope. A decent pair of bins shows you so much, and teaches you a lot in a short time about what's up there. And they are completely self-contained, and easy-peasy to use. For me, bins are the most fun per dollar spent.

Your reply was extremely informative and thank you. Maybe you could help me with a follow up question? When I finally do decide on what mount/scope to get will my mount work with other scopes? For example will my eq mount work just as well for a scope I bought with my alt mount and vice versa? I just can't seem to find information on this topic anywhere....maybe because the answer is obvious and I'm way over thinking it lol.

[Ewalks77]

12 hours ago, Ben the Ignorant said:

You could buy the Sky-Watcher 120/1000 tube instead of its more expensive Celestron clone, and with the money you save, get a heavy-duty manual alt-az mount.

Thank you for the info. Just out of curiosity would you say the Celestron is more expensive because it has better optics or am I just paying for the name of Celestron (if that's a thing like NIKE lol). Just wondering because a lot of what I have read says in telescopes "you get what you pay for"

[Ricochet]

4 hours ago, Ewalks77 said:

Your reply was extremely informative and thank you. Maybe you could help me with a follow up question? When I finally do decide on what mount/scope to get will my mount work with other scopes? For example will my eq mount work just as well for a scope I bought with my alt mount and vice versa? I just can't seem to find information on this topic anywhere....maybe because the answer is obvious and I'm way over thinking it lol.

There are two different sizes of dovetail depending on the size of the scope but the scopes you are looking at will all have the same dovetails. The scope size/weight is the main limiting factor. If you buy a lightweight mount then a heavy scope bought later on might prove too heavy for it but a heavy duty mount will have no issue with a lightweight scope. 

3 hours ago, Ewalks77 said:

Thank you for the info. Just out of curiosity would you say the Celestron is more expensive because it has better optics or am I just paying for the name of Celestron (if that's a thing like NIKE lol). Just wondering because a lot of what I have read says in telescopes "you get what you pay for"

Celestron and Skywatcher are both brands of the Synta company. There is a claim that the Celestron has some extra special lens coatings but I do not know how much of a difference that really makes in practice. Otherwise the two scopes are basically the same scope in two different colour schemes although there might be a bit of variation in the accessories. 

[newbie alert]

Hello and welcome.. with any sort of hint of moving onto dso objects in the future if youre planning on imaging them at all you will need to upgrade..a refractor is a great choice for deep sky but again depends on which one,but for imaging any dso you will need a equatorial mount.. a great budget way of going down the imaging route would be something like a star adventurer with a small refractor..if just a visual observer then  aperture is king..

[iPeace]

5 hours ago, Ewalks77 said:

Thank you for your reply my friend.  To answer your question, no I have not tried binoculars. Reason being, I'm not sure if they would show me the views that I would like to see. Like seeing Jupiter and the big red spot, possibly it's moons. Also I've recently gotten my taxes back and being that I have a bit of a spending problem lol I would like to buy a really decent scope while I have the cash to do so and maybe then get some binoculars to help me along my journey. This is huge rookie mistake I'm sure haha.

You will not see the Great Red Spot with binoculars. You will see that Jupiter is a planet with its own moons. In addition, you will see so many more stars than without them, and learn so much about the sky, and have so much fun that you won't mind waiting a while and saving up some cash to eventually get a really nice scope.

There are absolutely amazing fields of stars up there all around, it will blow your mind, yours for the price of a decent pair of binoculars.

There are even some good books which guide you around the heavens using binoculars.

Don't get me wrong, I love scopes and all the gear, and have plenty. But I have had the most fun with bins. You can take them anywhere to where the skies are darker. You can quickly point them up at something that looks interesting, just before that cloud rolls past - you don't have to set them up. You can lay back on a comfy deck chair and tour the skies, something I guarantee you will never do with a scope.

It's the perfect way to get started. If it doesn't absolutely blow you away, then there's no further need for a scope. If it does - it will - then you will be so much more into astronomy when you go for a scope.

Many experienced astronomers use binoculars exclusively - don't think that you would be faking it or selling yourself short.

And the Great Red Spot will still be there next year, I promise.

[Les Ewan]

I echo everything iPeace has said. I know we sound like wet blankets but I would strongly advise you get 7X50 or 10X50 binoculars first and use them for at least a year.Learning the sky and the wonders binoculars can bring  will make your first excursions in telescopes later much more rewarding and easier. 

Les

[rockystar]

I'm going to offer another point of view - and that's all it, there is no right answer - but I got a telescope first and binoculars second (actually 4th) and I'm glad I did it this way round. I like my binoculars and have had some good sessions with them - and yes, they are the ultimate grab and go - but you can't get a steady view with with (without mounting them on a tripod) and you can't show anyone else what you are looking at - they need to find it themselves (again, unless you have a tripod).

[rwilkey]

Hi Ewalks77 and welcome to SGL.  THe thing that is difficult (frustrating) about the EQ mount is that if you have it polar aligned when you want to look at stuff in the opposite direction you have to turn the whole scope over (called the 'meridian flip') which means that your eyepiece and finder scope are plunged into an awkward position and you then have to turn the OTA within the tube rings to get the eyepiece etc back in a comfortable position.  If you are just going to do observing I would recommend an AZ mount everytime. 

[Les Ewan]

Even after you have your telescope binoculars just don't provide wonderful observations in their own right they are invaluable tool in telescopic sessions too.For example if looking for a faint comet its often a great help if its located first in binoculars noting the field stars before going to the finder which in many cases is inferior to 10X50's. I have seen a few faint comets (and DSO's )that are obvious in binoculars but difficult or invisible in a finderscope of the same magnification and aperture.

As for mounts I agree that AZ's are probably better for the beginner however a non driven mount will not be conducive to higher powers because of the need of constant directional adjustments.I find with my Dobbo a 15mm eyepiece is the upper limit before too much frustration sets in.

[Ewalks77]

8 hours ago, Ricochet said:

There are two different sizes of dovetail depending on the size of the scope but the scopes you are looking at will all have the same dovetails. The scope size/weight is the main limiting factor. If you buy a lightweight mount then a heavy scope bought later on might prove too heavy for it but a heavy duty mount will have no issue with a lightweight scope. 

Celestron and Skywatcher are both brands of the Synta company. There is a claim that the Celestron has some extra special lens coatings but I do not know how much of a difference that really makes in practice. Otherwise the two scopes are basically the same scope in two different colour schemes although there might be a bit of variation in the accessories. 

Thank you again for the help sir. I really appreciate it!

[Ewalks77]

4 hours ago, rwilkey said:

Hi Ewalks77 and welcome to SGL.  THe thing that is difficult (frustrating) about the EQ mount is that if you have it polar aligned when you want to look at stuff in the opposite direction you have to turn the whole scope over (called the 'meridian flip') which means that your eyepiece and finder scope are plunged into an awkward position and you then have to turn the OTA within the tube rings to get the eyepiece etc back in a comfortable position.  If you are just going to do observing I would recommend an AZ mount everytime. 

Much appreciated. That's the general concensus I'm getting.

[Ewalks77]

From what I'm hearing binoculars are an invaluable tool for stargazing. Based on all of your very helpful input o think I will be getting the 102 mm with Goto AND some binoculars as that will give the most bang for my buck it seems. Thank you again for all of your help! It really made a difference. I've been doing research for over a month online and in my two days of this thread I have found much more useful info. I'm going to suggest this forum to my friends for sure. Thank you again everyone!