Information Overload!

[Spiritflier]

Hi Folks,

This is my first post to the forum and I'm in need of some help... A friend of mine has recently decided to get into astronomy (specifically astro-photography) and he seems to have sucked me in along with him!

I've been a photographer for the past 30-odd years and I've also been toying with the idea of trying astro-photography. My problem is that I'm very picky about my images and expect them to be of good quality. With this in mind, I'm struggling to decide on what to put my cash in to because I know what I'm like and poor quality (unsharp) images will have me infuriated in no time. I have a four year old daughter that I'd like to introduce to astronomy so whatever I buy is going to have to produce results that would keep her interested. To be frank, lots of white dots in the sky won't hold her interest (or mine) for more than five seconds as you'd expect. I've been doing a lot of reading and whilst some of the information has sunk in, an awful lot seems to have gone in and come straight back out again! 

So far, I've narrowed down my list of gear to the following:

Skywatcher Explorer 150P-DS with the EQ3 Pro GOTO mount (assuming that it'll guide correctly).

Skywatcher SWA 70 degree 5mm eyepiece.

ToupTek Colour Imaging and Guide Camera

Collimating Eyepiece

I've already got Stellarium running on my PC and Mac so I'm sorted for guiding software and I know I'm going to need a focussing disc and a few other bits (dew shield) etc. So in short, will the gear listed above be good enough with practice to allow me to take good quality photographs of planets, nebulae and galaxies or am I better off hanging fire for a bit and saving up for better equipment. I'd hoped to purchase the equipment sooner rather than later so that I can spend the summer getting to know it properly before the long nights arrive again. Unfortunately, I won't have somewhere at home to leave everything set up all of the time (my one-year-old will see to that) so whatever I buy has to be reasonably easy to put up and take down again. If there's anything you folks think I need to add or change, please feel free to let me know... I'll understand any eye-rolling that occurs given that I'm guilty of it myself in photographic circles! I can't afford to plough thousands into this and my original budget has already doubled.  

On a positive note, I live in mid-Wales so access to dark skies isn't an issue.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Si

[Stu]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm a visual observer only, but I'll make a start...

I would go smaller on the scope and bigger on the mount. The 150PDS is likely to act as a sail and not be very easy to guide on an EQ3.

Normal wisdom is an HEQ5 with an ED80 or a 130PDS to make sure you have a stable mount which guides well and copes easily with the load. An EQ5 may do it if budget is limited....

Now, wait and see what the experts say ??

[PeterCPC]

If your main priority is to image DSOs then something like this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/pro-series/skywatcher-evostar-80ed-pro-heq5-pro.htm

with a guide scope/camera and maybe a DSLR would do to begin with. If, however, you want to image planets then you want a long focal length scope like a SCT or Mak.

What I did was to get equipped for planetary work first and then got a short focal length refractor (ED80) that would be ok with the same mount. If you going to be doing imaging then the mount is the main consideration.

The best way forward might be to decide what your budget can be and your main imaging targets and then we can perhaps advise better.

Peter

[Spiritflier]

Thanks Stu.

I'd already considered the 130PDS and I'd looked at an EQ5 GOTO mount. Unfortunately, that's going to push my budget so I guess I should consider the 130PDS and a EQ3 GOTO if push comes to shove?

I thought the photography market was hard enough to figure out (even with my experience) but this astronomy business is seriously taxing my abilities to understand where I should be starting. I've read that really good article on here about what to expect and I kinda realise that I'm setting myself up for a big fall at first. I understand that things will improve with time and I'm not expecting Hubble quality images but I'd like to be able to set everything up and try for some of these absolutely stunning images I've been seeing. Each time I put a wide, fast lens on my camera and photograph the Milky Way, I'm absolutely in awe of what I'm seeing.

Thanks,

Si

[Dr_Ju_ju]

Hi Si,

Welcome to the Lounge, wishing you clear skies...

As Stu\Peter have said, forget the EQ3, its just not up to the job. You'd soon be asking about updating the mount, so the standard recommendation would be either an HEQ5\NEQ6\AZ-EQ6, increasing cost wise.

 

 

[Spiritflier]

5 minutes ago, PeterCPC said:

If your main priority is to image DSOs then something like this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/pro-series/skywatcher-evostar-80ed-pro-heq5-pro.htm

with a guide scope/camera and maybe a DSLR would do to begin with. If, however, you want to image planets then you want a long focal length scope like a SCT or Mak.

What I did was to get equipped for planetary work first and then got a short focal length refractor (ED80) that would be ok with the same mount. If you going to be doing imaging then the mount is the main consideration.

The best way forward might be to decide what your budget can be and your main imaging targets and then we can perhaps advise better.

Peter

Hi Peter,

I'd looked at that link you've posted before and it's certainly one I'd been considering. It's at the absolute maximum end of my budget (and it'd have to be sneaked past the Chief of Domestic Staff) so I've also been considering secondhand equipment too.

Thanks,

Si

[Floater]

I'm visual only, too, but want to help you be confident about the second hand market.

I'd avoid eBay, although it's not ALWAYS a minefield, and look at Astro Buy Sell or here on SGL. Amateur astronomers, like your fellow photographers, tend to appreciate good gear and take care of it. You will find the odd rogue here and there so 'caveat emptor' is always good advice but, generally, you'll be fine. And if you find something close enough to travel and see first, so much the better.

Also, some of the astro equipment retailers have a 'pre-loved/refurbished/clearance' section which might give extra peace of mind.

Good luck with the hunt.

[Stu]

2 hours ago, Spiritflier said:

Thanks Stu.

I'd already considered the 130PDS and I'd looked at an EQ5 GOTO mount. Unfortunately, that's going to push my budget so I guess I should consider the 130PDS and a EQ3 GOTO if push comes to shove?

I thought the photography market was hard enough to figure out (even with my experience) but this astronomy business is seriously taxing my abilities to understand where I should be starting. I've read that really good article on here about what to expect and I kinda realise that I'm setting myself up for a big fall at first. I understand that things will improve with time and I'm not expecting Hubble quality images but I'd like to be able to set everything up and try for some of these absolutely stunning images I've been seeing. Each time I put a wide, fast lens on my camera and photograph the Milky Way, I'm absolutely in awe of what I'm seeing.

Thanks,

Si

The other normal recommendation is to read the book 'Making every photon count' by Steve Richards. Should tell you all you need to know ?

[Scott]

I'd agree with Stu regarding Making Every Photon Count. It's a brilliant book to get up and running. I'd also concider forgetting most of what your terrestial photography has taught you. they are two completely different beasts.

I started with an eq5 and was very happy when I moved up to an neq6 (although a heq5 would have done the job). an eq5 is doable but it takes a lot of hard work and many lost subs.

For me (and I can't stress that enough), knowing what I know now, I'd forget the scope for now, and get the heg5. As a photographer of 30 yrs, you must have collected a few lenses over the years. Use your camer with your lenses directly on the mount for starters then as and when funds allow, build on what you've got. You'll have the mount capable of handling quite a range of scopes and won't be wishing you'd not bought the eq3. If you are a perfectionist, don't try and muddle through with sub standard equiptment

But get the book first... best £20ish a budding Astrophotographer can spend imho

[Psychobilly]

Definitely get hold of a copy of MEPC by Steve Richards (Steppenwolf on here and the "Scope Doctor" in the Sky at Night Magazine) .. before you spend money on anything else...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

While I haven't been that active for the last few years I used to try and drag as much as I could out of modified DSLR cameras...

I  also came for a traditional Photography background  and so   I naturally assumed that Astrophotography would be "easy"...

Steve's book wasn't around at the time and I made some seriously bad kit decisions...

Peter...

 

 

[brantuk]

If budget is a the deciding factor then it may be a good idea to scan the classifieds on UK Astro Buy Sell website for the mount. You should be able to find a good example in full working order under two years old for two thirds the new price. The thing with AP is that it starts with the mount - this is the main part of any imaging rig and is more important to get right than the camera or scope.

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?titlechoice[]=For+Sale&statuschoice[]=Active&minprice=&maxprice=

To achieve the kind of "picture perfection" you're looking for the HEQ5 Pro is the minimum one I'd recommend. But you would get away with an EQ5 Synscan or CG5GT which would both be cheaper - expect a small compromise on perfection though. A good read of MEPC is your best idea at this stage. Hth

[Davesellars]

 

Welcome to the forum.

If your budget is pushed for a complete setup at the moment get the mount first at minimum the Skywatcher HEQ5 and I assume you have a good DSLR and lenses so use these until you have a budget for an APO refractor 80mm to 100mm range for example.

IMHO forget putting any money in to guiding at the moment.  Get good at polar alignment and using low focal length lenses you'll be able to expose for a considerable amount of time with a decent mount without guiding.  Guiding also needs a guide-scope or converting an existing finder-scope.

The 5mm eyepiece (while quite nice as I have one is not something you want to start with for visual observations.  This focal length will be maxing out a f/5 scope and most nights you won't have the conditions to use it.  Again, if budget is restricted a scope normally comes with 1 or 2 eyepieces.  Use these to start with.

[Mick J]

Welcome Spiritflier/Si,   You can get into astronomy and astrophotography it's a broad church and good pictures can be produced at any level, skill, experience or expense, just look around in the forum.

A nice video by Gav can be seen in this thread I think you may find it of interest.

[Spiritflier]

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions... I'll definitely grab a copy of that book and have a read.

In the meantime, I'll take a look at an EQ5 mount and decide on the telescope from there. I've already got 600mm of reach from my longest lens and that's great for moon shots but not much else. 

Best wishes,

Si

[Psychobilly]

Depending on which 600 it is you might get a lot more than you expected from it...

 

[Alien 13]

As far as camera lenses go a good 200mm FL can produce stunning images with moderate tracking i.e. EQ3/5 or Star adventurer but anything longer needs something better like the HEQ5 and as Peter has hinted a really good 600mm FL lens can hold its own with most of the better scopes.

Alan

[mcsheffield]

Welcome to SGL,

Plenty of good advice already given, and your mount has to be the best you can afford, the other items including scope etc, you can mess with, but without a good solid and I mean solid, fully track-able scope you can not do a thing.

Anything less than HEQ5 and you will wasting your money & loose interest quickly, 2nd hand is fine, 99% of astronomers do really look after their kit in my experience, but buy from an astronomer not ebay would be my only advice.

Hope all works out for you.

Andrew

[iapa]

On 20 April 2016 at 15:29, Davesellars said:

 

Welcome to the forum.

If your budget is pushed for a complete setup at the moment get the mount first at minimum the Skywatcher HEQ5 and I assume you have a good DSLR and lenses so use these until you have a budget for an APO refractor 80mm to 100mm range for example.

IMHO forget putting any money in to guiding at the moment.  Get good at polar alignment and using low focal length lenses you'll be able to expose for a considerable amount of time with a decent mount without guiding.  Guiding also needs a guide-scope or converting an existing finder-scope.

The 5mm eyepiece (while quite nice as I have one is not something you want to start with for visual observations.  This focal length will be maxing out a f/5 scope and most nights you won't have the conditions to use it.  Again, if budget is restricted a scope normally comes with 1 or 2 eyepieces.  Use these to start with.

I would second @Davesellars

Invest in the mount. A good mount. Experience tells me a payload in the 40-50lb range - your OTA starts getting heavy once you bolt on guidescope, DSLRs etc. etc.that's the EQ6/AVX etc.

A thought (which may get knocked down in flames)for the time being;  forget the optical tube assembly (OTA) a dove tail mount and bolt your camera to that and use a wide angle lens while doing all the alignment, and change lens when you come to the actual imaging.

leveling, Polar alignment and balancing are the kings..... so, you may want a weight to compensate for the weigh difference between your different lenses.

Just a thought.