I'm cheesed off with AP- tempted to quit.

[r3i]

Michael Morris summed things up nicely. As much as assembling the right gear is important, equally so IMHO is getting the right frame of mind, in that shed loads of patience and perseverance come in very handy. AP is all about incremental progress and isn't what you'd describe as an instant gratification pursuit, which for me at least makes it all the more absorbing.

[happy-kat]

You don't have a laptop, this thread might interest you.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/234107-anyone-using-cheap-windows-tablet-with-apt/?fromsearch=1

[libraryman]

Plus 1 for Michael's comments, sometimes it's better to set up on the bad nights just for the setup experience and practice!

It's taken me 2 years to acquire what I want and a method to use it .....repeatability.....is my watch word.

Having said that....recently I set up and in my attempt to get up and running I completely forgot to polar align!!! Some couple of hours later, I realised that I had forgotten. Doh.....age does that to you but I still wouldn't give up.

Ray

[Owmuchonomy]

Michael Morris summed things up nicely. As much as assembling the right gear is important, equally so IMHO is getting the right frame of mind, in that shed loads of patience and perseverance come in very handy. AP is all about incremental progress and isn't what you'd describe as an instant gratification pursuit, which for me at least makes it all the more absorbing.

Mike is on the money. I see a lot of expectation that stuff should work 'out of the box'. That isn't my personal experience and I prefer thus to keep it simple. Again that's my choice and it is aligned with my expectation that there will be periods when I have to take time to research and consider the best way forward.

[MartinFransson]

If it's any help, I guide using a ST4 cable and the "on camera" setting in PHD. I find it simpler to use.

Peter

I do that too. Works like a charm and I agree about the different software being non-intuitive! I wouldn't have made it without youtube tutorials and forums like this!

Sent from my phone using Tapatalk

[wxsatuser]

So do I.

The OP is certainly not alone in finding his standalone guider problematic. Ever since they first appeared there has been a clear pattern of user experiences on here - a pattern of 'no pattern!' For some they just work. For a significant number of other people they 'just don't work.'  My own feeling is that, sometimes, trying to simplify things makes them harder. It's a design and engineering maxim that 'complexity brings control' and for me having a separate guide camera, third party software and an extra cable (the ST4) actually makes life easier by giving more control.

I have the feeling that, like me, the OP is not entirely at home in the IT world. Forgive me if I'm wrong. If that's the case it might be as well to draw on outside expertise while trying to get these gadgets to talk to each other. This is what I do as my son in law, my friend Brian and a large number of our guests know from experience! 

Getting it all to work takes time. But it can be done. Once you have it running DON'T CHANGE IT.  You will have to fend off endless helpul suggestions regarding tryng this or that marvellous time saving bit of IT. Resist them! DOn't even think aout touching up that small scratch on your dewshild. It will wreck you guiding, ruin your flats and your darks will never work again...  *

Olly.

*I'm only half joking here, as many imagers will know...

I like to think I'm fairly good at IT but sometimes the old brain takes a while to click.

My experience with the Lacerta.

Bought this because it guides, dithers and controls dslr without laptop.

To start with it appears a nice bit of kit.

A small box that can hang anywhere you want.

Nice Sony chipped camera, better than my Starshoot.

Calibration is far superior to PHD, very fast.

First real guiding session produced perfect round stars at 10minutes

Menus are a bit fiddlely but ok once your used to them.

Cables supplied, to thick, need to be more flexible.

Instructions sort of ok but usual stuff gets lost in translation.

Spent hours on net but there appears not much real help from other users.

Don't connect the intervalometer after bootup as it wont sequence images properly.

There is a lot in it's software that is not explained, so left these at default.

There are most likely other niggles I have'nt found but it does what I want and need all without a laptop.

On the whole I'm very happy with the purchase, got mine from Teleskop Service in Germany who are

very fast and efficient.

[DaveS]

I found I needed 2 USB connections, one to the mount alone, from the same USB socket every time. In fact I marked the socket so I could be sure in the dark. The other connection goes to the Trius camera and from there to the guide camera and filter wheel. This connection goes to a socket on a different root hub, just to be sure. I found a lot of my initial frustrations were down to misbehaving USB hubs.

I run Cartes du Ciel through Eqmod (Which is, as Chris (Who should know) says, *designed* for Skywatcher mounts), and PHD2 for guiding. Capture is in AA5, mainly because, try as I might, I cannot get it to guide with the QHY5, even though it can see it.

This set up works as reliably as can be expected unless PHD2 and the QHY5 have a falling out and stop speaking to each other. This usually needs an unplug / re-plug restart PHD2.

And get your own laptop then you know what's installed on it and can pare things down to the absolute minimum to avoid unexpected clashes.

[A40farinagolf]

I've done some reading and experimenting based on the feedback received so far. I'm making progress!!!!
Now downloaded PHD2 - 1 icon appears on my desktop
Now downloaded EQMOD - 3 icons appear on my desktop - EQASCOM_run, Toolbox and Gampepad monitor
Now downloaded ASCOM - 15 icons appear on my desktop

I fired up PHD2 and I filled in the "Connect Equipment" screen as follows:
Camera - ZWO
Mount - On camera
Aux Mount - EQMOD ASCOM HEQ5/6
Then asked PHD to Connected to All of the above.
Connected my ZWO ST4 wire from the camera into my AZEQ6 mount and the USB wire going from my camera to my laptop.
In the PHD2 tools menu, manual guide I can hear the mount motors being energised as I manually click on the NESW buttons which is a major achievement.
If I then click on the "begin looping exposures" icon a dark screen appears which shows random white pixels as my WZO has the lens cap fitted (as I'm indoors). If I click on one of the white dots m and SNR numbers are generated.
If I click on the PHD icon the mount motors start to energise again as I think it's trying to guide. :-)

Does this all sound Ok to you and what should I do next?
Thanks,
M 

[Owmuchonomy]

Read this:

http://openphdguiding.org/man/index.html

[carastro]

I sympathise, I find that sometimes you can try to run before you can walk and often advice on here is too advanced for those who aren't completely at home with IT.  

I say keep everything simple and learn one thing at a time before you try to add something else into the mix.  

Having said that I do think using a laptop does simplify imaging. 

Advantages:

1. You can see to focus on screen, much more comfortable and larger than trying to see the back of a small LCD at an awkward angle on the camera.

2. Sorry to hear you have had problems with the Synguider, but you might find it easier to use a laptop, you can see everything on screen much more clearly, including doing an alignment and finding your target if your guidescope is aligned with your imaging scope.  

I hope you get things sorted out.  

Carole 

[Physopto]

Hi A40farinagolf,

It takes a lot of time and effort to become proficient at imaging. I started off some 8/9 years ago with visual and moved over to imaging due to balance and eyesight problems. I have been trying for several years (about 7) to get a decent image that I would consider letting any one else see. You have to just take a step at a time. I think Michaelmorris's pictures above say it all. I am still trying. I only get to image at Star Parties due to light pollution where I live and security problems. ( I cannot spend 3 hours setting up and 2 hours dismantling each night on the off chance). Patience is key !

Derek

[A40farinagolf]

Read this:

http://openphdguiding.org/man/index.html

Great guide document (no pun intended) and I'll certainly read through it - thanks for the link

[A40farinagolf]

Tried for 2 hours last night to get the Baader LVI Smartguider to work properly but to no avail; it would find a star but would not lock onto it.

The method stated in the instructions is to get the guidescope in focus using a parfocal eyepiece that comes with the kit, you then replace the eyepiece with the guide camera and it's automatically in focus.

I focused on Sirius using the parfocal eyepiece and then replaced it with the guidecam, despite making very fine manual adjustments to my precision camera focusser (both inwards and outwards) it never locked on. I think that this is the weak link in the system as there is no way of viewing the focus quality of what your trying to track until it has locked onto it and the camera  can't lock on until it's in focus - bit of a chicken and egg situation. Once it's locked on the display apparently shows the pixel size of the guide star and with minor adjustments the focus can then be optimized - never got that far though.

Left in the box by mistake was a "return note" from another previous buyer who also had reason to send it back!!

The retailer has accepted it's return so I'm off to buy a laptop - any suggestions?

[Physopto]

Sirius may be too bright !!!

Usually you need a low intensity star. If not he guide camera is swamped with too much light and cannot lock on as it a cannot find the centre of the star. I only use a Loadstar but their advice is, that  it does not need to be fully focused either, just a close focus.

So in short try a fairly dim star and do not worry too much about perfect focus. Worth a try anyway! Exposure time will be important also!

Derek

[A40farinagolf]

Sirius may be too bright !!!

Usually you need a low intensity star. If not he guide camera is swamped with too much light and cannot lock on as it a cannot find the centre of the star. I only use a Loadstar but their advice is, that  it does not need to be fully focused either, just a close focus.

So in short try a fairly dim star and do not worry too much about perfect focus. Worth a try anyway! Exposure time will be important also!

Derek

Derek,

Thanks for the advice, one slight problem; I didn't read it until after I'd posted it back to the supplier - I'll blame the instructions like usual.

Laptop / PHD here I come

Regards,

Mark

[StuartJPP]

I bought a 2nd hand LVI Smartguider 2 a couple of years ago. I didn't particularly like it due to the fact that you couldn't see what was happening, using the parfocal eyepiece and then replacing it with the camera just seemed too fiddly and if it didn't find a star you didn't know why. Eventually someone on ABS put a wanted ad for one and I passed it on but didn't hear any positive or negative feedback from him.

The Synguider does show stars if I am not mistaken but best by far seems to be the Lacerta MGEN II, but its high price is a bit of a deterrent.

Personally I'd get a cheap netbook (something like the old Samsung NC10) and a QHY5L-II-M while they are on special and run PHD(2). That way you can see exactly what is happening.

[Physopto]

For guiding I have only used the Loadstar ccd. Liked it so much bought another, the later version x2 and still am very happy with the guiding. I was advised to use PHD ages ago by a good friend and for a while did not as I was trying to get Maxim DL to guide. Never had any success until I caved in and used PHD, worked first time. Brilliant program!

If you are looking to succeed try the Loadstar. I cannot see any difference between the original and the newer version. So try a second hand one if you can get one. PHD is free.

Derek

[A40farinagolf]

I bought a 2nd hand LVI Smartguider 2 a couple of years ago. I didn't particularly like it due to the fact that you couldn't see what was happening, using the parfocal eyepiece and then replacing it with the camera just seemed too fiddly and if it didn't find a star you didn't know why. Eventually someone on ABS put a wanted ad for one and I passed it on but didn't hear any positive or negative feedback from him.

The Synguider does show stars if I am not mistaken but best by far seems to be the Lacerta MGEN II, but its high price is a bit of a deterrent.

Personally I'd get a cheap netbook (something like the old Samsung NC10) and a QHY5L-II-M while they are on special and run PHD(2). That way you can see exactly what is happening.

Hi,

Do you think the QHY5L would be better than my ZWOASI120MC and where are they currently on offer please?

Thanks,

M

[A40farinagolf]

For guiding I have only used the Loadstar ccd. Liked it so much bought another, the later version x2 and still am very happy with the guiding. I was advised to use PHD ages ago by a good friend and for a while did not as I was trying to get Maxim DL to guide. Never had any success until I caved in and used PHD, worked first time. Brilliant program!

If you are looking to succeed try the Loadstar. I cannot see any difference between the original and the newer version. So try a second hand one if you can get one. PHD is free.

Derek

Derek,

Thanks again - Is there a specific lodestar guide camera model for the pre-runner to the X2?

Mark

[Physopto]

Hi Mark,

The original was just the Loadestar and the later one is the Lodestar x2.

Have a look on

http://www.sxccd.com/products

Plenty of dealers sell them so you will get an idea of the new prices. Second hand should be about 2/3 ish possibly a bit less. There are faults with them in so far as the mini USB sockets are not that great and can fail. But there are ways around that. I made a stainless steel support for mine. QHY also do a good guide camera. There are plenty of posts on SGL concerning them.

A point that you should also consider is that for this method you will need a separate guide scope unless you use an off axis adapted main ccd. The separate scope can be a very cheap spotting scope or finder scope.

Derek

[StuartJPP]

Hi,

Do you think the QHY5L would be better than my ZWOASI120MC and where are they currently on offer please?

Thanks,

M

I'd try your ZWOASI120MC first, it is probably very similar to the QHY5L. It is on offer from Modern Astronomy by the way (and possibly others).

[ollypenrice]

Hi Mark,

The original was just the Loadestar and the later one is the Lodestar x2.

Have a look on

http://www.sxccd.com/products

Plenty of dealers sell them so you will get an idea of the new prices. Second hand should be about 2/3 ish possibly a bit less. There are faults with them in so far as the mini USB sockets are not that great and can fail. But there are ways around that. I made a stainless steel support for mine. QHY also do a good guide camera. There are plenty of posts on SGL concerning them.

A point that you should also consider is that for this method you will need a separate guide scope unless you use an off axis adapted main ccd. The separate scope can be a very cheap spotting scope or finder scope.

Derek

The understatement of the year   but, on balance, still a camera worth having. I don't want to pulse guide because I understand my ST4 based guiding too well, now, to want to change it. So I'm stuck with the idiotic mini USB as well as the idiotic mini ST4. (To make matters worse the cable makers now seem to put more plastic around the mini USB plugs so there is even less room for the idiotic mini ST4. I have had intermittent problems with these cables on all three of the Mk1 Lodestars I have here and sometimes think I'll go to the inordinate expense of selling them and buying the X2 Lodestar. If ever I do so my rant about the cables will appear in the small ad, fear not.)

I would advise anyone to buy the X2. A guide camera is out in the wind, the cold and the damp on a moving application. How could they have specified those cables????

Olly

[opticalpath]

I still have a Mk 1 but now I use the 'camera relays' option to take the guide signals from the QSI imaging camera's (sensible) guide socket, so I only need the USB cable going to the Lodestar.  I just make a loop in the cable and tape it to the body of the Lodestar so there's little strain on the mini plug and no problems (touch wood.)   Before that I did use both cables: USB and the guide cable with the idiotic JST ZH mini plug, but even then I found that doing the same loop-and-tape thing around both cables seemed to work OK and the daft plugs never seemed to cause a problem.

Adrian

[Physopto]

The understatement of the year   but, on balance, still a camera worth having. I don't want to pulse guide because I understand my ST4 based guiding too well, now, to want to change it. So I'm stuck with the idiotic mini USB as well as the idiotic mini ST4. (To make matters worse the cable makers now seem to put more plastic around the mini USB plugs so there is even less room for the idiotic mini ST4. I have had intermittent problems with these cables on all three of the Mk1 Lodestars I have here and sometimes think I'll go to the inordinate expense of selling them and buying the X2 Lodestar. If ever I do so my rant about the cables will appear in the small ad, fear not.)

I would advise anyone to buy the X2. A guide camera is out in the wind, the cold and the damp on a moving application. How could they have specified those cables????

Olly

Hi Olly,

Do not buy the X2 version. I say this as I have done it and was so worried by the poor usb mini connection I made another clamp to support it. There are plastic one you can buy but look a bit too light weight for my mind. I put a URL address on SGL for a chap in Italy I think. He has done some tests on the original and X2 variants. See Lodestar Problem #26 for my solution. I will improve it sometime but works for now.

http://www.astrosurf.com/comolli/index2.htm

This has a link to the tests, well worth a look. His name is Lorenzo Comolli ( PhD I think in physics).

Derek

[ollypenrice]

Hi Olly,

Do not buy the X2 version. I say this as I have done it and was so worried by the poor usb mini connection I made another clamp to support it. There are plastic one you can buy but look a bit too light weight for my mind. I put a URL address on SGL for a chap in Italy I think. He has done some tests on the original and X2 variants. See Lodestar Problem #26 for my solution. I will improve it sometime but works for now.

http://www.astrosurf.com/comolli/index2.htm

This has a link to the tests, well worth a look. His name is Lorenzo Comolli ( PhD I think in physics).

Derek

Oh no. I'd assumed that the X2 would sort it.

Message to camera makers:

Astro cameras are used outside in wind, cold and wet. Humidity is wet, even if it isn't raining. They move. (It's the Earth's fault!) The cables usually specified are intended for offices staffed by nancies (can I say nancies on SGL??) who go straight to the Health and Safety Commission if their office temeperature/humidity deviates from European norms by a fraction of one percent. The only possible source of wind in office environments need not concern us. Please give us sensible cables. Please!!! They must exist.

Olly