30 meter telescope ?

[ronin]

It appears that the Hawaiian court has said that the building permit is invalid as they failed to take into account the views of the protesters. So appears to be on Hold again while TMT assess the present situation.

[Tinker1947]

It appears that the Hawaiian court has said that the building permit is invalid as they failed to take into account the views of the protesters. So appears to be on Hold again while TMT assess the present situation.

Why would people protest against something that's going on the top of a mountain.....

[Davey-T]

Are these the same protestors trying to stop the NSO Solar scope being built ?

Wonder what they object to.

Dave

[MarsG76]

Why would people protest a telescope? because thats what unemployed hippies do.

[Glasspusher]

Perhaps to the native inhabitants these mountains have religious connotations.

[Tinker1947]

Perhaps to the native inhabitants these mountains have religious connotations.

But these telescope are ok....

https://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/mko/

[callisto]

Are these the same protestors trying to stop the NSO Solar scope being built ?

Wonder what they object to.

Dave

I think these people are just bored 

[phil125]

Sound like Nimbys. Or Nomms - not on my mountain!

[Ruud]

I'd want that telescope in my backyard.

Construction of the E-ELT (39 m) should start soon. At least, they've flattened a mountain top in Chile.

[MAN or ASTROMAN]

I've got to admit that when I saw the title of this thread,I immediately thought of those REALLY slow Refractors,as used by the like of Huygens, in the 17th Century.

 Now you WOULD have a problem fitting that in the back garden!

[Grotemobile]

Are these the same people, that don't want

anything, built on this planet. Back to the

caves. Something for these people  to do,

I suppose. After this, on to the next one.

Steve.

[bambuko]

Perhaps you lot should educate yourself first about the issues, history and politics of the country and people you are commenting about... before posting?

[Dave Lloyd]

Perhaps you lot should educate yourself first about the issues, history and politics of the country and people you are commenting about... before posting?

It does seem acceptable for the modern world to trample over the sensibilities and traditions of others.

[Pan Euro]

It does seem acceptable for the modern world to trample over the sensibilities and traditions of others.

Sadly we have been doing it for centuries, why stop now?

[Dave Lloyd]

Social maturity? (maybe)

[Piero]

Perhaps you lot should educate yourself first about the issues, history and politics of the country and people you are commenting about... before posting?

I agree completely with you.

For us such a telescope will be doubtless important. For these native people it could simply be another way to ruin their territory or sacred mount or whatever is included in their traditions that we, educated and cultured people, didn't even bother to ask or understand. For them, the building of this white architecture located on the top of a mountain, and including a funny empty cylinder-shaped tool inside moving around the sky could simply be outrageous. 

The point is that we think to own their place, their territory, their lives and with this idea behind, we think we can do everything (yes in an American way) we want. Beside the arrogance in this attitude, the underlying hypocrisy is that we would never accept this behaviour from somebody else in our territory. 

Let's make an example. Let's assume a non-British comes to Britain to do business. And for this example this person's business concerns motorways and road building. As a powerful man, he knows the major authorities and therefore he can start building major and minor roads, including tons of shops along the way with his partners, throughout the UK, destroying the pretty and conserved countryside, simply because this is irrelevant for this business man. Soon, the UK would become a polluted country covered with cities and towns, and maybe there would be even motorways passing next to Stonehenge! 

Now, would this person be well accepted by most of the British people? I would doubt so..

(Note that In this basic but realistic example, religion was not even mentioned..) 

Being eager (for knowledge, industry, power (????) ) can be a good thing as long as it doesn't hurt other people. I believe we can also live without that telescope. We might have a "delay in knowledge", but we will still get there. We might even put another telescope in space to cover that missing knowledge.. 

Ruining those people's traditions and beliefs is a step of non-return instead.

This fact can be found so many times in history. I won't comment furthermore on this as this is an astronomy forum, but just let people think about.

[ollypenrice]

Social maturity? (maybe)

A good phrase with a wide range of applications and one I'll be borrowing from time to time, I think.

I know nothing about these specific issues, though, and make no comment on them.

Olly

[nucleardwarf]

So either a Telescopesareus or a MacDonalds.

[nameunknown]

There is a wiki article on this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Meter_Telescope_protests. I suspect if somone wanted to flatten the top of Mt Everest (or Snowdon/Scafel) and put an obsy/scope on top, there would be protests - yeah, all are lousy sites but perhaps more people like treking up a clean mountain than walking up the road to an obsy. It's not a simple question.

P

[Physopto]

I agree completely with you.

For us such a telescope will be doubtless important. For these native people it could simply be another way to ruin their territory or sacred mount or whatever is included in their traditions that we, educated and cultured people, didn't even bother to ask or understand. For them, the building of this white architecture located on the top of a mountain, and including a funny empty cylinder-shaped tool inside moving around the sky could simply be outrageous. 

The point is that we think to own their place, their territory, their lives and with this idea behind, we think we can do everything (yes in an American way) we want. Beside the arrogance in this attitude, the underlying hypocrisy is that we would never accept this behaviour from somebody else in our territory. 

Let's make an example. Let's assume a non-British comes to Britain to do business. And for this example this person's business concerns motorways and road building. As a powerful man, he knows the major authorities and therefore he can start building major and minor roads, including tons of shops along the way with his partners, throughout the UK, destroying the pretty and conserved countryside, simply because this is irrelevant for this business man. Soon, the UK would become a polluted country covered with cities and towns, and maybe there would be even motorways passing next to Stonehenge! 

Now, would this person be well accepted by most of the British people? I would doubt so..

(Note that In this basic but realistic example, religion was not even mentioned..) 

Being eager (for knowledge, industry, power (????) ) can be a good thing as long as it doesn't hurt other people. I believe we can also live without that telescope. We might have a "delay in knowledge", but we will still get there. We might even put another telescope in space to cover that missing knowledge.. 

Ruining those people's traditions and beliefs is a step of non-return instead.

This fact can be found so many times in history. I won't comment furthermore on this as this is an astronomy forum, but just let people think about.

We have already done this to ourselves. Our countryside is fast disappearing under roads or developments.

We also now have McDonalds doing the same (trying to run roughshod over objections) outside schools when most of the people of the area object.

Derek