Baader 'Cool Ceramic' Herschel Wedge

[perfrej]

As I am currently visiting Baader Planetarium on my way to Provence and have never heard of a Herschel Wedge, I asked them to show me one. Clever device! I like the cooling solution they created with a metal grid and the ceramic plate that acts as a "solar finder". If I ever want to do solar full spectrum stuff I think I will get one of those.

/per

[russ.will]

Nice report Stu.

Several comments:

1. You dirty dog! When did a Docter slip in there, or wasn't I paying attention?

2. Ditto the FC100

3. Do you think the difference is down to the increase in size, or more the fact it's a Zeiss prism?

4. Can we persuade you to buy a full-aperture Baader filter for one of your Dobs to see how the prism stacks up against the angular resolution advantage of the larger aperture?

Taking the tongue out of my cheek, I noticed a lot of the same gains you mention going from the 1.25" Lunt on the 80ED to the Badder film on the LX200. In that instance, I also noticed a slight, but noticeable loss of contrast, but it's hard to separate that effect when the comparison involves one scope with a significant central obstruction.

Finally (!) if you have a UHC filter, I'd be interested to hear what you think with in terms of it being a Solar Continuum on the cheap.

Russell

[russ.will]

.....and have never heard of a Herschel Wedge.....

/per

Do you live under a rock Per? 

Russell

[YKSE]

Nice report Stu.

1. You dirty dog! When did a Docter slip in there, or wasn't I paying attention?

Russell

Russ,

You're not the first one to notice a Docter has slipped in

[russ.will]

Okay, I wasn't paying attention, but imagine the kerfuffle on here if he suggests he prefers it to any Televue....

Russell

[perfrej]

Do you live under a rock Per? 

Russell

Haha, yes, in some ways I do. Take visual stuff, for instance. I never do it and I have a very small supply of eyepieces, no diagonals, no adapters. Imaging is my thing, simple as that. As my Baader Travel Companion CaFL 95 mm refractor is ready and only waits for the new Steeltrack Diamant to arrive, I will soon be in pocession of a scope that I get with some visual stuff and that is supposively better than most for that purpose. At that time, and when darkness returns, I may succomb to some visual from time to time

Maybe a Herschel Wedge... I don't know...

/per

[Luke]

That's interesting about the Tak's being shorter, Stu, sounds handy.

Look through it? I'm maybe 60% imaging, 40% visual. Trouble is, the clouds are 90%

[DRT]

Nice report, Stu, and congrats on the new toy

I bought mine a few weeks ago and I love it. Very sharp and clear views and great detail around the active areas.

The filters do come pre-installed, not just on the ex-demo you bought. I bought the photographic version so that I had the additional ND filters instead of buying a polarizing filter to control brightness but I have to say I haven't needed them. They might come in useful if I do a multi-scope session on the Moon.

[David Smith]

Great review and comparison Stu, thanks. I foresee a wedge in my future but have had my astro splurge for the next couple of months.

[Stu]

Nice report Stu.

Several comments:

1. You dirty dog! When did a Docter slip in there, or wasn't I paying attention?

2. Ditto the FC100

3. Do you think the difference is down to the increase in size, or more the fact it's a Zeiss prism?

4. Can we persuade you to buy a full-aperture Baader filter for one of your Dobs to see how the prism stacks up against the angular resolution advantage of the larger aperture?

Taking the tongue out of my cheek, I noticed a lot of the same gains you mention going from the 1.25" Lunt on the 80ED to the Badder film on the LX200. In that instance, I also noticed a slight, but noticeable loss of contrast, but it's hard to separate that effect when the comparison involves one scope with a significant central obstruction.

Finally (!) if you have a UHC filter, I'd be interested to hear what you think with in terms of it being a Solar Continuum on the cheap.

Russell

Cheers Russell.

Answers.....

1) Guilty as charged :-)

I confess I've been a little cagey about the Docter but he is out in the open now. I blame Gerry for this one. Curiosity got the better of me and I'm glad it did, it's a lovely eyepiece.

2) Same as above. Couldn't resist based upon the 76 I have and I'm glad I didn't. I'd been planning on selling plenty of kit so have it covered budget wise. I'm awful at times, I say I'm going to buy something and sell something else to fund it, but end up keeping both!! I then get to a kind of crisis point with too much kit and not enough cash which is enough of a catalyst to prompt a clear out.

Anyway, the FC-100 is lovely, very happy with it. Had it on Jupiter and Saturn last night. It's only 4" obviously but the views are so crisp and clear. It was sharper than a couple of larger scopes last night. It doesn't have the resolution of the larger apertures obviously, but what is there is just presented so clearly it is a joy to use.

3) I'm guessing a bit of both. The image is brighter in the Baader which I can only assume to be because of the larger prism size, though I don't have a clear understanding of the size of the light cone at that point. I was surprised by the brightness improvement.

Again, based on assumption, i think the quality of the Zeiss prism must contribute to the ability to sustain higher power. This was a noticeable difference.

4) Probably not [emoji6]

I'm surprised you find the LX200 so much better, for a couple of reasons. I assumed that scope tube currents during sunny days and seeing conditions would count against the larger aperture. 100 to 120mm is often mentioned as the goldilocks size for solar. Clearly this is not your experience.

Lastly, I do have a UHC filter but it's a Lumicon so more expensive than the Continuum probably [emoji15]. Might give it a go.

Thanks for the input!!!

Cheers,

Stu

[Stu]

Okay, I wasn't paying attention, but imagine the kerfuffle on here if he suggests he prefers it to any Televue....

Russell

Watch this space! At some point I'm sure it will bang heads with the 13mm Ethos [emoji6]

[spaceboy]

Result with the Baader wedge Stu. Sounds like the gamble paid off although I never had any doubts as I have read consistently good reports about the Baader offering from various sources. Plus you also have the added bonus of being able to use your 2" ep's so happy days .

I was interested to see that there is text suggesting the Baader wedge is best used in apertures up to 100mm where as the lunt 2" version is recommended up to 150mm. This might be worth bearing in mind if you do use the 120mm on a tracking mount. As with most things astronomy there always seems to be conflicting information in adverts so I'm sure someone who already has one may better advise.

[DRT]

I have just looked at the instruction manual and there is noting in there about only using it up to 100mm of aperture. In fact there is one reference warning of the temperatures that would be reached if you placed a filter in the wrong part of the light path when using a 6" refractor. It is a warning about the filter, not the telescope.

Spaceboy, was the warning you saw on a retailers website or from the manufacturer?

I could do with knowing before putting my eye behind this and my ST150

[Stu]

Interesting. Page 3, second paragraph.....

It doesn't say this is a limit though, just that this range of apertures can see all visible phenomena...

[jetstream]

A-P states that the Baader is tested on some largish scopes- a quick email to Baader should clarify. http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/solar_acc/solar_acc. My SW120ED works fine with this wedge.

[philj]

Interesting comparison Stu, I have the Lunt 1,25 and am well pleased with it as I can use it in my vintage scopes, I was taken with the Baader but I could only use that in my more modern scope and Towa with upgraded 2" focuser.

Im surprised there is so much difference, I wonder how much the different filters will affect the observed image quality or is the quality difference down to the actual wedge?

[Stu]

Interesting comparison Stu, I have the Lunt 1,25 and am well pleased with it as I can use it in my vintage scopes, I was taken with the Baader but I could only use that in my more modern scope and Towa with upgraded 2" focuser.

Im surprised there is so much difference, I wonder how much the different filters will affect the observed image quality or is the quality difference down to the actual wedge?

I was surprised too Phil. I am conscious of not over stating things, and hope I have not, but the difference was marked. To qualify that, it was far less obvious under poorer seeing conditions, but early morning and later evening I was struck by how obvious the granulation was vs the Lunt, plus the other details I mentioned.

I was using the same filters in each ie the obligatory ND3.0 and a Baader Continuum so the comparison was as fair as I could make it. Obviously one is 1.25" and the other 2" so it is not an apples for apples comparison but I still think it valid. The difference must be in the size, plus the quality of the prism.

EDIT I am conscious that people may think I am putting the Lunt down and saying it is not good. That is absolutely not the case. I have enjoyed using mine for a few years now, and will continue to use it for travel use on holiday. It's a nice piece of kit.

You only have to see the bronzing on the anodizing of the eyepiece holder on mine to see how much use it has had!

[Vox45]

Is this overkill on a SW 80ED ? would a 1.25" Lunt be sufficient ? the end goal being photography...

I really like the Baader but there is a bit of a difference in the price

[Stu]

Is this overkill on a SW 80ED ? would a 1.25" Lunt be sufficient ? the end goal being photography...

I really like the Baader but there is a bit of a difference in the price

Luke would probably be your best bet to answer that one Vox45. I'm sure he will be along shortly

[Mark at Beaufort]

Stu and excellent report and great information in this thread.

I bought my 1.25" Lunt nearly 2 years ago and the quality increase over my Orion glass filter was incredible. With my Astro Tech 4" I always use the Continuum filter and binoviewers. I need to use a 1.5x barlow to gain focus and I only have about 1 cm of inward focus remaining. I guess that the 2" Baader would not allow me to focus if I used binoviewers.

I often wondered whether the TeleVue 76 and 85 would allow binoviewers and the Herschel Wedge - I know that I could not get focus with RikM's Pronto.

[DRT]

Interesting. Page 3, second paragraph.....

It doesn't say this is a limit though, just that this range of apertures can see all visible phenomena...

That's the section I was referring to Stu - if the Sun comes out tomorrow I will give it a go with the ST150 and the ED100. I have been using it with my TV Pronto but as already mentioned above it struggles to reach focus with some eyepieces.

[Stu]

Stu and excellent report and great information in this thread.

I bought my 1.25" Lunt nearly 2 years ago and the quality increase over my Orion glass filter was incredible. With my Astro Tech 4" I always use the Continuum filter and binoviewers. I need to use a 1.5x barlow to gain focus and I only have about 1 cm of inward focus remaining. I guess that the 2" Baader would not allow me to focus if I used binoviewers.

I often wondered whether the TeleVue 76 and 85 would allow binoviewers and the Herschel Wedge - I know that I could not get focus with RikM's Pronto.

Thanks Mark [emoji3]

I always use the continuum now same as you, it just adds that extra bit of detail and sharpness I think.

I'm not sure of the optical path length of the Baader but just looking at it, you have to assume it's a fair bit longer than the Lunt. I'm fairly sure you would struggle to get focus with it using BV's

I would also imagine that if you couldn't get focus in a Pronto then the same would apply to a 76 and probably the 85. If I get a chance before it goes off to its new home, I could just check how much focus range is left with both wedges in the 85. That would tell use the difference in path length between the two wedges.

Rob has a 76 and Lunt wedge so could check his too perhaps?

[Stu]

That's the section I was referring to Stu - if the Sun comes out tomorrow I will give it a go with the ST150 and the ED100. I have been using it with my TV Pronto but as already mentioned above it struggles to reach focus with some eyepieces.

That will be an interesting comparison Derek. I have a 150 f5 which I have used with the Quark but I'll confess the views were better in the TV85, Tak 100 and the ED120. I assume this is either seeing related, or to do with the lens figure, SA perhaps?

I will ask this separately so it gets more attention, but does anyone have an opinion as to whether it is ok to use my Vixen 150ED f9 for solar with the Wedge?? I don't want to risk damaging the optics at all so will err on the side of caution.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Hind sight is a great thing.

The price i paid for my Hershel wedge and the 3 filters (ND3.0, SC and variable polarising)...............i could have bought a cool ceramic wedge which includes the ND3.0 and SC filter.

Live and learn.

No regrets. 

[russ.will]

As my Baader Travel Companion CaFL 95 mm refractor is ready and only waits for the new Steeltrack Diamant to arrive, I will soon be in pocession of a scope that I get with some visual stuff and that is supposively better than most for that purpose.

/per

My dear man, it will be better for visual than most 90mm scopes, but bested by most 100mm scopes.

Forum General ALERT! We have a member unaffected by aperture fever.

He was last seen heading in the direction of Olly. Is it too late to apply correctional methods, or can we rely on The Penrice to avail him of the dark arts? Namely, photons are most precious when destroyed on the retina. Only then, when uncompounded by artificial means, can the history of their journey be truly appreciated. 

Or not.

Russell