40 pane mosaic of the Waning Moon

[Jupiterholic]

After 2 years of only ever imaging the waxing moon (due to its convenient early evening time keeping) I really wanted to get a high res mosaic of the crescent waning moon but obviously that means shooting in the very early hours of the morning. So Saturday morning at 2am I sluggishly got up and started shooting. It was a bit misty but generally it worked out ok and I'm pretty pleased with the result. I shot it all through a red filter and it took about an hour. If the picture doesn't load (or takes ages) and you want to skip to the full size version click here: http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

otherwise:

[nightfisher]

Exquisite! very nice image, superb focus, many thanks for sharing, beats my humble A-focal taken on the same morning

[northcanadian]

Beauty!

[Ibbo!]

thats a belting image

[neil phillips]

Very Nice.

Ive only ever done one at about this FL myself. and even that is a lot of work, would love to try one at 11 meters. but not sure i could pull it off. would be a nightmare. But massive and revealing under good seeing if achieved. would likely need 3 hours or so im not sure ? i thnk the seeing was good on saturday. the slight mist is good. what did you process it on avi stack ? . im guessing you used a 2x barlow ?

[Zul]

Fantastic!

[squeaky]

Stunning.

[Jupiterholic]

Very Nice.

Ive only ever done one at about this FL myself. and even that is a lot of work, would love to try one at 11 meters. but not sure i could pull it off. would be a nightmare. But massive and revealing under good seeing if achieved. would likely need 3 hours or so im not sure ? i thnk the seeing was good on saturday. the slight mist is good. what did you process it on avi stack ? . im guessing you used a 2x barlow ?

Thanks for the kind words everyone!

Hey Neil,

You're right the mist did help keep the bright albedo features on the limb down. I was considering doing another run on them lowering my exposure when the mist thickened up and I didn't have to. I started processing in registax 6 but it just kept crashing or finishing a capture with that awful hexagonal blotchy effect its so fond of, so for sanities sake I reverted back to registax 5. I didn't actually use any magnification for this beyond what the chip and the star diagonal can produce (I did use a red filter though). Once (and only once) did I attempt a full mosaic using a screw in 0.75x barlow and this 98 pane monster was the result: http://www.flickr.co...57628982429645/

That was taken with an SPC900 and it took me over 4 hours (I was still learning the ropes back then). I had backache, neckache and probably frostbite by the end of it. Never again. Plus like you say, working at that magnification is a nightmare. The stupid moons natural drift makes keeping track of the parts you've already covered really difficult.

I think I've become an astro-werewolf. I just go a bit mental whenever the moon is up.

[neil phillips]

Hi again, I thought i used a 2x barlow which gets me too f12.6 and the features do seem a bit larger. from your f10. I didnt look at your scope i thought it was a newtonian. So yes that makes perfect sense. I did mine when the moon wasnt at its highest ( 40 degrees at the start and falling there after ) Yours looks better. somewhat crisper, either better seeing or focus im not sure which. Your larger resolution link. has been downsized hasnt it. I didnt see a link to the full size version. did you not upload one ? Under good seeing with the moon at its highest. I have for a long time wanted to try very high FL. The chances never seem to come though here in the uk do they. I have abit of mirror flop that throws off collimation slightly as the scope tilt changes. thats ok for planets ( as i can recollimate as the night progresses, But for this. i would have to tighten that error up, and its risky as pinching optics can set in very fast when trying to get that magic tolerance on the primary. I wonder what could be achieved though starting early possibly 40 degrees and rising in the southeast. And then finishing as the moon starts to drop down again now in the southwest. How long it would take. and how many panes at about 11 meters i wonder ? Is it even possible ? im not sure ? Missing a pane would be likely im sure. EQ mod has a program to map the moon. But ive not tried any of that at all. With imerge you can drop the avis on and the first frame pops up to guide mapping. But sometimes on my older DMK the first frames were sometimes blank ahhhhhhhh. Whats your thoughts on all this. Am i hoping for too much maybe ?

Im glad you posted this. As its something ive been thinking about for ages. And your lovely image is inspiring me to get back into it. Assuming the uk EVER plays ball for a change. what camera did you use btw ? and what frame rate.

All considerations ive been thinking about. would have to be 30 fps. for at least 1 min per capture to get lots of sharp frames from the blurry ones that would come from 11 meters. Hope you dont mind chatting about all this on your post. Hope you find it a interesting conversation. Once again great work

[Jupiterholic]

Hi again, I thought i used a 2x barlow which gets me too f12.6 and the features do seem a bit larger. from your f10. I didnt look at your scope i thought it was a newtonian. So yes that makes perfect sense. I did mine when the moon wasnt at its highest ( 40 degrees at the start and falling there after ) Yours looks better. somewhat crisper, either better seeing or focus im not sure which. Your larger resolution link. has been downsized hasnt it. I didnt see a link to the full size version. did you not upload one ? Under good seeing with the moon at its highest. I have for a long time wanted to try very high FL. The chances never seem to come though here in the uk do they. I have abit of mirror flop that throws off collimation slightly as the scope tilt changes. thats ok for planets ( as i can recollimate as the night progresses, But for this. i would have to tighten that error up, and its risky as pinching optics can set in very fast when trying to get that magic tolerance on the primary. I wonder what could be achieved though starting early possibly 40 degrees and rising in the southeast. And then finishing as the moon starts to drop down again now in the southwest. How long it would take. and how many panes at about 11 meters i wonder ? Is it even possible ? im not sure ? Missing a pane would be likely im sure. EQ mod has a program to map the moon. But ive not tried any of that at all. With imerge you can drop the avis on and the first frame pops up to guide mapping. But sometimes on my older DMK the first frames were sometimes blank ahhhhhhhh. Whats your thoughts on all this. Am i hoping for too much maybe ?

Im glad you posted this. As its something ive been thinking about for ages. And your lovely image is inspiring me to get back into it. Assuming the uk EVER plays ball for a change. what camera did you use btw ? and what frame rate.

All considerations ive been thinking about. would have to be 30 fps. for at least 1 min per capture to get lots of sharp frames from the blurry ones that would come from 11 meters. Hope you dont mind chatting about all this on your post. Hope you find it a interesting conversation. Once again great work

Hey Neil,

Course I don't mind chatting about this stuff, I could talk all day about it.. in fact, fortunately for me given what I do for a living, sometimes I actually DO talk all day about it!.

Starting from the top of your reply.. yeah my scope is an SCT so this shot was indeed F10. The seeing wasn't great that morning. The moon was still very low, 25 degrees when I started and 36 when I finished so I was still in the murk for much of it but the mist helped keep things steadier than usual for that altitude. I'm using a new electric focuser which is making life a lot easier and probably helped really nail the focus for this one. I find I have to keep reminding myself to trust my focus and not tamper with it as I'm shooting, its very tempting to think you need to re-focus as you go. I do think I had very good focus for this one but I also think my processing methods helped a lot. I went easier than usual on wavelets so ended up with a slightly softer overall feel than I usually produce. But it seems to have worked with this and made the result look more natural.

The 98 pane jobbie on Flickr, yeah I didn't put the largest version on there. The full size version is 50cm from north to south pole. Thats opposed to 27cm on the waning crescent in this thread (and thats at 300dpi). So even with a .75 barlow I was doubling my size and almost doubling the magnification of each pane. It was really difficult to do to be honest. If you ever pull it off at 11 metres I will be seriously impressed. That'll be some mosaic. I reckon you're looking at upwards of 120 panes for a half moon alone at that FL and possibly 3+ hours depending on how quick and accurately you can move your scope to the next area between captures.

You may not necessarily miss a pane if your polar alignment is good and you can sort the collimation issue though. Just trust your own skills at moving across the face of it and look for a guide feature in the top of each capture, make sure that same feature is in the bottom of your next one and its all good. You're one of the top imagers on this site (in my opinion) so I've no doubt you can do it. Just talking about it is making me want to try a higher mag mosaic now but you're right, the rubbish UK seeing just won't play ball for long enough sometimes.

I don't bother with the programs that can do quick processes to make a guide map either. I have enough to do just filming and tracking. If I added making a rough guide mosaic at the same time into the equation I'd be outside all night and half the next day, and probably crash my wheezing laptop mid capture. Imagine what a disaster that would be!

I only ever use the DBK camera in my signature now and always use a red filter for lunar work. I sold my SPC900 a few months back. I also only ever shoot at 30fps. My camera is USB 2.0 which doesn't seem to be able to handle the speed of data coming through at 60fps and produces horrible compression lines.

Looking forward to seeing this mega-mosaic of yours one day. Perhaps I'll brave a 2x barlow at some point myself!

[neil phillips]

Great conversation this. your guess on the time and panes.Is very useful thanks for the input.

It actually would be worth trying this with about a quater moon. wouldnt it. That would make it easier. and more possible. Time around 1.5 to 2 hours. some 60 panes, more likely 80 as i would double up on areas i was unsure about likely.

I dont think its a question if this can be done. I think its a question of getting the consistent seeing that would allow the intire shot to be sharpish it seems. The times when the moon is high. without daylight interupting, over a long period ( 2 hours ) being the right size ( a quarter or slightly more ) and hitting good seeing at all these moments seems rather unlikely in the uk doesnt it.

I may well have to suffer whatever size the moon is. If thats the case a 3x barlow would likely suceed better. Especially if seeing wasnt up to it. So playing all this by ear is the way to go. But i would like to do this at 11 meters. Can you imagine if i had a intire quarter ( or say one third ) mosaic, with the quality of this recent copernicus shot. It would be adequate. And would be MASSIVE. Infact i wonder what the world record for a single amature high resolution quarter moon is ? It can not be much more than 11 meters surely ? i have thought of this idea for years. Way before the lunar world record attempt. But have not had the moments or the determination to wait for the right time to attempt this. Cant help feeling something will go wrong. Its a scary idea. I have seen a 5x powermate done at f4.5, and it was MASSIVE and sublime. This though would be slightly Larger. Its not something i may ever be able to do. its kind of in the hands of the gods a bit isnt it. For everything to fall in place. I am going to think about this more seriously now. But going from a 2x barlow to one thats about 6x ( The powermate is higher mag imaging than it is visual ) would be scary as hell. quite difficult. But its exciting to push ourselves. And if achieved i think i would be truely proud. But as of now many things could go wrong. So we will have to see. But after talking with you im determined now to strike if i get the chance. Amazing you got this quality at the elevation you mention. Well done on a crisp well processed image. One last thing. I think i would set levels on the bright limb first. Set the levels as high as possible. But without burnout. Then just switch to dark side. And hope to god 80 panes later. when i check focus. I dont see it sharpen. Arghhhh astronomer found dead in the morning with a note saying. IT WAS SLIGHTLY OUT OF FOCUS. IT WAS SLIGHTLY OUT OF FOCUS. IT WAS SLIGHTLY OUT OF FOCUS. A hundred times

[Jupiterholic]

I agree. Quarter moons still make beautiful mosaics and at really high mag would be a perfect target to go for. Did one myself recently at F10 (though it was VERY low when I shot it and I think its oversharpened):

I think I'll try that again aswell, next quarter moon we get I'm going to try a 2x barlow on it and see what happens.

Daylight interrupting your shooting won't be a problem though unless you're intent on getting a waning moon. Waxing will most of the time be at a good altitude at an hour long before daylight but this waning moon here didn't reach maximum altitude until about 9am that day.

Your copernicus shot is outstanding. I just don't have the aperture (or skill) to get that smoothness and clarity at that magnification. If you manage even a quarter moon at that quality/FL it'll be incredible. A couple of months back a guy from the Netherlands won the Hotshots section in my magazine with a 107 pane gibbous moon using a C11. It only took him 90 minutes though so he must have had his foot on the gas, probably 30 second captures at 60fps. He had some slight burnout on the limb but still, 107 panes is a hell of a job and more than I've ever managed.

And yes, we should always push ourselves, just maybe not to the point of death by despair

[nightfisher]

Neil, good luck with pulling that quarter moon high f ratio mosaic off, that would be a sight to see, way above my talents, think its time for me to ease up on the A-focal work and get back to using my spc900

[Space Cowboy]

Bit of quality there!

[neil phillips]

I agree. Quarter moons still make beautiful mosaics and at really high mag would be a perfect target to go for. Did one myself recently at F10 (though it was VERY low when I shot it and I think its oversharpened): http://www.flickr.co...57628982429645/

I think I'll try that again aswell, next quarter moon we get I'm going to try a 2x barlow on it and see what happens.

Daylight interrupting your shooting won't be a problem though unless you're intent on getting a waning moon. Waxing will most of the time be at a good altitude at an hour long before daylight but this waning moon here didn't reach maximum altitude until about 9am that day.

Your copernicus shot is outstanding. I just don't have the aperture (or skill) to get that smoothness and clarity at that magnification. If you manage even a quarter moon at that quality/FL it'll be incredible. A couple of months back a guy from the Netherlands won the Hotshots section in my magazine with a 107 pane gibbous moon using a C11. It only took him 90 minutes though so he must have had his foot on the gas, probably 30 second captures at 60fps. He had some slight burnout on the limb but still, 107 panes is a hell of a job and more than I've ever managed.

And yes, we should always push ourselves, just maybe not to the point of death by despair

The sharpening does look heavier than your recent one. I prefer this recent one. But its still a nice job, reminds me infact of a IR pro planet filter shot. Those extra 45mm of my primary can go a long way over a straight 8" scope. You clearly have the skill i have no doubt. Like me. you need the best equipment. ( i want C14 ) The fact that you said this other shot is oversharpend. tells me your eye is getting better as you go along. And indeed your sharpening on this recent one looks spot on to me. As does the processing generally. was the mosaic S. lammel. If so i may have seen it. one of the best ive ever seen. the guy is a genius.

[Jupiterholic]

The sharpening does look heavier than your recent one. I prefer this recent one. But its still a nice job, reminds me infact of a IR pro planet filter shot. Those extra 45mm of my primary can go a long way over a straight 8" scope. You clearly have the skill i have no doubt. Like me. you need the best equipment. ( i want C14 ) The fact that you said this other shot is oversharpend. tells me your eye is getting better as you go along. And indeed your sharpening on this recent one looks spot on to me. As does the processing generally. was the mosaic S. lammel. If so i may have seen it. one of the best ive ever seen. the guy is a genius.

It wasn't Stefan Lammel in the magazine but I know his work well. My eyes bleed looking at his pictures. They're just jaw dropping. I agree, he must be one of the best lunar imagers in the world. Definitely something to aspire to. I'm 100% with you on the C14 thing aswell. If portability wasn't more important to me right now (and I had enough money to buy a car) I'd get one today. But sadly I think it'll have to wait until I'm retired and have moved to Hawaii far in the future.

Thinking about that link I put in before, thats not really a quarter moon is it? Think this is closer to quarter and better processed (though still too sharp) despite being done on an SPC900: http://www.flickr.co...57628982429645/

All this talk is making me really look forward to another crack at the moon at F20. Few weeks to wait yet though for a quarter visible at a decent hour/altitude, and only then if the weather plays ball, which is unlikely given our luck this year! Fingers crossed.

[neil phillips]

Yes Fingers crossed. And your shot and discussion. Has really made me interested in getting back into great lunar work. So i thank you for sharing your excellent work. And the very interesting discussion. Another nice one ( the link ) You have done more of this kind of work than i have. I mostly have gone in for the hi res stuff. your likely better at this than i am. experiance really does matter.

I do find when the shots are downsized. less sharpening is needed. And i think its this that your talking about. when you say still too sharp. You get that slightly white rather pin sharp effect.

Sometimes dropping whites on levels can sort that effect out, but still leave a sharp shot. Not sure if youve tried that ?

Not oversharpened per se. But possibly through the downsize if that makes sense. Assuming i am correct and you did downsize. Which i might be wrong about. In which case yes it does look like you could have laid back a bit. But to be honest some actually prefer that look. I suppose it depends on your preferance. The fact that your thinking about all this. is a sign of someone trying to get that magical balance. I find i can often under sharpen sometimes if i keep thinking about it a lot. Like we are. I will look nexday and think nooooooooo too soft. Sometimes its good to leave a time space then look again with fresh eyes. I am sure you know exactly what i mean. As i can tell you experiance the same thing. as i guess a lot of us imagers do

[todd8137]

That's really cool with great detail

Pat

[LukeSkywatcher]

That is just LUSH.

[Black Knight]

Another terrific image. Great discussion in this thread too!

[Venus_is_my_friend]

Beautiful image, simply beautiful

[Pete Presland]

superb image well done!|

[Tinker1947]

Really nice image some thing to be really pleased with.....

[Jupiterholic]

Thanks guys. Much appreciated. Very nice of you to say so.

[luis]

GREAT IMAGE AND discussion!!!