e-petition - stargazing

[Jammy]

ok, lets have a go then shall we?

This is only a suggestion, but feel free to use/change whatever floats a persons boat if you tihnk i've missed something or covered something badly

"Lastly by reducing or removing such inappropiate lighting solutions the government will be able to see a drop in crime rate figures (which is shown in the drop of the crime rate in areas which already have reduced/removed inapproiate lighting solutions)"

Is this last part true? Can it be proven? Otherwise I think it is well written, and carries the argument beyond stargazing. I think that the cost and energy consumption parts would appeal to the man in the street (or woman before anyone corrects me!).

Does anyone think that astronomy should be mentioned at all? I'm not sure if it needs to be.

I'd be more than happy to sign both petitions

[davebodger]

Signed at number 3265, for what it's worth.

[Kit-Fox]

I affected the effect, remember?

I think we need to talk more about what we actually want. It's all well and good saying why you want it, but without coming up with an actual proposal nobody's going to take it seriously. Getting them to replace all streetlights at once would be an impossible sell, so say we want more research done into just how many we need on, what times they need to be on for, where they need to be and into better designs for new lamposts, which can be easily tailored to different environments - adjustable shields for instance which would ensure that the light is only directed at the roads and paths immediately adjacent. Perhaps bulbs which emit light that is going to be reflected by the surfaces less?

Like a list of demands

Off the top of my head;

- Requiring curtains/blinds on windows that have them fitted to be closed by 10pm to help reduce the glow created by interior lights

- Require all privately installed exterior lighting to be placed onto either motion sensors or switched off (isolated) by 11pm.

- Requiring outside lights to be installed by a qualified lighting engineer, such a requirement could ensure consistent standards of fittings, making sure the element isnt glaring neighbours across the street and the light is angled to correctly light the area it is installed for.

- Requiring all exterior building lights to be on seperate fuses so they can be turned off when requested/required, regardless of the type of light (ie motion activated or not)

- Requiring all streetlights to be of the fully recessed/cutoff type as shown on the CFDS website, which would reduce glare & light spill. It would also focus the light onto the area needed (ie the street)

- Having road lighting cut severly, we have headlights & mainbeam lights for a reason on our cars, we dont also need intense road lighting. If you cant see far enough ahead to brake safely for the speed you are doing then you need to slow down. Perhaps we could insist that the driving test cover correct usage of car lights as it seems so many have little clue.

Hmmm, starting to run dry, but thats not bad for 5 minutes thought about things that could be done

EDIT: Jammy, all offical reports i've seen about crime levels from areas where public lighting has been reduced/removed clearly showns a reduction in crime across the board. I've yet to see one that shows that crime has risen or that the predicted end of civilisation will happen. Of course the great unwashed have such a fear of the dark & crime that they naturally combine the two to confuse and conflate the issue into one easily attacked issue :S

[Novarius]

Signed. Just been up to a 'Dark Sky' site. Amazing how much difference a few street lights can make. At home, some stars, DS site, jaw dropping.

[Baz Pearce]

I've signed the petiton. Will encourage my mates too as well.

[astro_dog]

bring on the darkness!

signed!

[Kit-Fox]

Reading those suggestions back, they seem a little extreme, but i'm thinking we might need to push far in order to be able to compromise for what we want.

I'd be happy to see the return of the ARP wardens & the cry of 'Put That Bleedin' Light Out!'

I just cant see that happening, mores the pity

[ron.s.g]

Does anyone know if there are restrictions on how high security lights in back gardens can be as my neighbour has his on the guttering level of his roof on his house which is aimed across 4 gardens which is very annoying.

regards ron.s.g

ps signed petition as well

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Reading those suggestions back, they seem a little extreme, but i'm thinking we might need to push far in order to be able to compromise for what we want.

I'd be happy to see the return of the ARP wardens & the cry of 'Put That Bleedin' Light Out!'

I just cant see that happening, mores the pity

I would rather be bothered by LP than Heinkels;)

[richbyers]

some of those are a little extreme arent they? i mean we do live in a democracy and have the right to keep our blinds open if we chose!

id rather have lp and have to burn my scope at the stake than be forced into something like that

im sure we can figure something better than forcework, personally i would withdraw my support if i was seen to be backing something that coerces people into doing things that should be personal choice

im off to inspect that petition to see how its actually worded....i agree with the streetlights being forced off, but to have something like that......

[ApprenticeAstronomer]

Signed!

[fusteve]

Would love for greater views of our planet and universe

especially living in London anything that helps I would support

[Kit-Fox]

Well come on then, you guys suggest some ideas? or petition wordings?

And yeah ok some of them are extreme, but if we go in with the most extreme we can 'compromise' to the level we want to get, rather than go in at the level we want and have to scale back from there

[richbyers]

i see your point kit-fox but we have to be careful- i mean if your wording got the reaction i posted (and bear in mind i really do want dark skies) then image what the public would think- it would do more harm than good to push to much and would probably result in damaging our chances for good

rich

[Stargazing_Cliff]

Aswell as street lamps my neighbours decided to have massive garden fire thats so anoying also neighbours usually have decking lights on but that doesnt usually bother massive fence up but garden fire.

Hope that was just one off

if that keeps happening i be contacting local council especially time fire was on look me cam image shows time past 11pm.

i took me cam in when seen fire keep me cam clean.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I think there are actually European laws against such fires. A bonfire might look fun, in a residential area it is a danger, quite apart from being a pollutant (light and otherwise)

[Macavity]

Well come on then, you guys suggest some ideas? or petition wordings?

Celebrity (scientist) endorsement... via Twitter? Stephen Fry? Lady Gaga? LOL.

A mixed blessing maybe? And maybe such influences are "factored in"...

Leaflet your local area? Is that allowed, these days? I recently received an official package re. "unsolicited callers" - It was Helpful. But canvassers for... whatever, are so TIMID these days. I almost miss the traditional "doorstep challenge" of yore!

Aside: A lady came around last Sunday, with a survey re. my TV viewing. But, because I had a paint-pot in hand, she scuttled off, with profuse apologies. Any excuse to avoid (never-ending observatory) DIY...

[Ant]

Don't quote me on this, but there are laws about fires... but I was under the impression that they had to be AFTER a certain time in the evening.

Cheers

Ant

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Don't quote me on this, but there are laws about fires... but I was under the impression that they had to be AFTER a certain time in the evening.

Cheers

Ant

Even then, the fire looks dangerously high. Even without specific laws, the police could certainly find reasons to make you put that kind of fire out.

[White230]

Signed

[chrisshillito]

How on earth do you ever expect the general public to show any support/sympathy for your cause when this kind of reaction is made to a bonfire!

Whether you like it or not I'm sure the far the vast majority of folks in this country would think it rather more considerate to have a bonfire at night than during the daytime, and far better to do it on a clear still night when the smoke will go straight up rather than hang around at ground level.

Astronomers really have to accept they don't own the night and have no more rights than anyone else with regard to their hobby. If someone accidentally ruins your observing session by having a bonfire that's just tough luck. In one way or another it happens to us all from time to time and its just part of the game we've chosen to play. Go inside have a cup of tea and wait for the smoke to die down.

I think you'll find that most councils don't have any bylaws specifying the timing of bonfires. This from my local council website:

"It is a common misconception that there are specific byelaw's prohibiting the lighting or timing of bonfires within the district. There is no outright bonfire ban. This includes areas that lie within the smoke control area.The only law governing bonfires is the Environmental Protection Act (EPA) 1990 which deals with bonfires in relation to statutory nuisances. For example persistent or particularly large bonfires may cause a nuisance"

Chris.

[ChrisB6051]

Signed.

[richbyers]

Astronomers really have to accept they don't own the night and have no more rights than anyone else with regard to their hobby.

im an astronomy student, and i do not just want dark skies- i need them....despite this i have to agree here, people are proposing some far too extreme stuff as ive commented on above...we do not own the night, and therefore need to come to a compromise with those who do not see our side

my beliefs in equality and freedom far outwiegh my studies...and i take my studies extremely seriously.....i would stand and give a talk for an hour on light pollution to the public (if i were a good public speaker that is) and would hope they came round to my side

if they didnt however then i would have to accept it

i wouldnt like it if someone came to my house and told me what i should and should not do- that will annoy people and we'll get nowhere

as already said we cannot demand- we must win the public over- i like the idea, and have said it previously too, that a celebrity to tweet it- someone who has some good sense

[Andrewsean1985]

Signed :-)

[Kit-Fox]

You know i'm getting a lot of stick for suggesting things that were literally just off the top of head without any major thought (as indeed it says in the post that details the ideas)

Yet despite the disagreement & flack I'm taking I dont see any of you lot suggesting what we could ask for? Or what solutions might be possible?

Anyone?

Anyone out there at all?