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Astrologers Taking a Swipe at Brian Cox

Stephen

By Stephen
in The Astro Lounge

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E621Keith

E621Keith

Posted
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Astrologer based on birthday, planet and star signs is nonsense, but I just thought how astrology by star observation might work.(rubbish can be recycled and bull **** can be use for making eco friendly biogas, using these term to describe astrology is an insult to rubbish and cows)

Say an astrologer observes the heaven, she saw numerous stars, the seeing was very good, stars were not flickering and air was very calm, much better than usual. She may predict people's will have a bad day tomorrow.

And behold, she's right, a hurricane landed the next morning.

Weather forecast for people who read horoscope but not the weather forecast on the top of the page. :)

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michael.h.f.wilkinson

michael.h.f.wilkinson

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Personally I pretty much only believe in evidence based information, but have no problem with others believing in whatever they want.

But when a scientist on a science program is told off for stating his point of view and astrologers request their point of view be put forward I think its getting silly. They can have their programs, and newspaper columns. Let us have ours.

Well said!!

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michael.h.f.wilkinson

michael.h.f.wilkinson

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Very interesting.. I have had experiences in my life that have convinced me that God does exist but I can never prove that to others and would not try to because it is not a matter of proof but of faith in what you experience. I am sure that science can one day explain those experiences more fully but for now faith is what has led to my convictions not proof as proof is not always there. However I dont think that astrology adds up in the end it reminds me of people that worship the sun or the moon which I think is very strange given what we know understand. But calling it rubbish is not helpful or constructive.

I agree. Certain things are unproven, especially in the realm of faith. It is up to anyone to believe what they like. However, do not expect a blessing from science, or scientists, if there is evidence that refutes your belief (in sun, moon or whatever).

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Moonshane

Moonshane

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Very interesting.. I have had experiences in my life that have convinced me that God does exist but I can never prove that to others and would not try to because it is not a matter of proof but of faith in what you experience. I am sure that science can one day explain those experiences more fully but for now faith is what has led to my convictions not proof as proof is not always there. However I dont think that astrology adds up in the end it reminds me of people that worship the sun or the moon which I think is very strange given what we know understand. But calling it rubbish is not helpful or constructive.

bizarrely (although I don't prescribe it), worshipping the sun and moon (which give us light, heat, even vitamins, tides and stability) seems somewhat logical (or at least reasonable)! (esp compared with Astrology). :)

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ianpadley

ianpadley

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Reading the Guardian quotes from the astrology wingnuts reminds me of the same esteemed journal's Dr Ben Goldacre (Bad Science column) reporting another researcher getting hate mail from the homeopathy mob for pointing out the idiocy of serial dilution in the light of scientific truths like Avagadro's number. What bugs me about all these guys is that the same basic science that transmits their nutty views over the airwaves feeds us, clothes us, drives us to work, cures our headaches and worse (but not the homeothepists obviously) and oh yes gazes upon the heavens in awe and wonder and does some science on that too.

OK, so i don't have an LHC to play with for my day job:headbang:, but I earn an honest crust from my chemistry in a very humble way and all this 'anti-science' gets right on my what-nots.

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haitch

haitch

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My mother-in-law believes in some of this quack stuff and I get a great kick out of winding her up over it. Maybe we should start some proper organised astrologer baiting. We could even have a dedicated topic on the forum (under the lounge of course) and compare our astrologer baiting exploits with a "bait of the month" prize.

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Manok101

Manok101

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I never ever poke fun at something someone believes no matter how silly it may seem to me. Maybe its an american thing, or maybe its just a me thing., I don't know. There's enough people in the world who take far to much delight in ridiculing those that disagree with them. Just my two cents worth. No I am not an astrologer, nor do I believe in it.

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michael.h.f.wilkinson

michael.h.f.wilkinson

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I never ever poke fun at something someone believes no matter how silly it may seem to me. Maybe its an american thing, or maybe its just a me thing., I don't know. There's enough people in the world who take far to delight in ridiculing those that disagree with them. Just my two cents worth. No I am not an astrologer, nor do I believe in it.

Good point, but do not forget some of the quackery causes real damage. There was a high profile case in the Netherlands where a medium and two quacks convinced a well known actress and presenter she did not have breast cancer, but that it was just an infection. She died a painful death of breast cancer, of a type that may well have been cured otherwise.

Besides, the argument of Brian Cox is that there is a serious flaw in the theory behind astrology. As a scientist it is your duty to point this out, publicly if it is in the public interest. My salary as a scientist is paid from tax money, I feel this gives me a duty to the general public.

Giving a scientific argument against a position is not in itself ridicule.

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michael.h.f.wilkinson

michael.h.f.wilkinson

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It's not exactly Cox's proprietary argument ... it's accepted scientific wisdom that astrology is bunkum.

Cox is certainly not the only one, nor is he the first with this argument. However, the fact that something is accepted scientific wisdom does not mean it is true. The arguments supporting the wisdom are the key. The fact that some authority says it is true is also irrelevant, it is the argument given.

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michael.h.f.wilkinson

michael.h.f.wilkinson

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He has said nothing that Sir Patrick Moore has been saying since I was a lad, and that is some time ago. They didn't complain about his comments that I am aware off.

I fondly remember sir Patrick's comment on people who were saying Jupiter would be knock seriously out of orbit because of Shoemaker-Levy 9: "Whenever there is a comet all the idiots come out of the woodwork!" He went on to say that the effect on the orbit of Jupiter would be comparable to the effect of throwing balls of cotton wool at a charging rhino.:)

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michaelmorris

michaelmorris

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bizarrely (although I don't prescribe it), worshipping the sun and moon (which give us light, heat, even vitamins, tides and stability) seems somewhat logical (or at least reasonable)! (esp compared with Astrology). :)

Worshipping a pickled egg sandwich called 'Norman the tasty pickled egg sandwich' seems somewhat logical when compared to Astrology.

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Blackheart

Blackheart

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"As above, so below..."

That's the way a friend of mine described astrology. Obviously, the relative positions of stars and planets have no direct effect on Earthly events, human or otherwise. But I see no reason why astrologers can't have an interest in astronomy and vice versa. After all, the chances are that the first astronomers were in fact astrologers.

However, not being one to dismiss another's point of view without looking into it I did consider a few things that 'might' (underline... underline!) form a small kernel of truth for the astrologer's claims. For instance... I was born in September, what might be considered the beginning of the astronomy season. Thus every year at this personal 'focal point' the nights began to draw in. The summer was at an end. People choosing birthday presents might be likely to consider a telescope, and anyone getting a scope at this time of year has a good few months to try it out while the enthusiasm lasts. A person whose birthday is in June would have little chance to try out a scope and by the time Autumn draws on that window of interest might be lost.

It might be interesting to chart where astronomer's birthdays fall in the year. If they tend to fall in the autumn and winter then maybe the time of year in which someone is born may have a bearing on the kind of personality they develop...

Is it possible, do you think, that a person born in spring is likely to be enthusiastic and outgoing as each year, at that crucial focal point, they are surrounded by generally positive vibes.

Conversely, is it possible that someone born in autumn is likely to be introspective as the weather begins to close in around the focal point of their birthday, so presents (and the opportunity to use them) are limited somewhat by the weather.

Looking back through history... Is it possible that a person born in spring, or at the time of the harvest is likely to be more optimistic. Whereas a person born in the drought of summer or the depth of winter might form a different outlook on life.

I do not believe in astrology but humans have an incredible gift for seeing patterns in nature and patterns in random events. This is the basis of mathematics, but also the basis of superstition. We should not wonder therefore that both have such a marked impact on our lives.

So let's not be too disparaging about our astrological cousins. We both look to the heavens it's just that our observations must be verifyable and true. It seems to me that there's are more a question of faith. And as James Randi famously said...

"Those who do not believe by reason, cannot be convinced by reason."

Oh boy, can I waffle on or what!!

I'm going for a lie down. My horoscope said I should take things easy this week!

Clear skies

BH

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