How not to win sales....

[Byz1453]

Had a similar bad experience with that lot last year.

Walked in a couple of times when I was down in London. Initially all was happy, nothing was a problem. We talked through what I needed and I was happy that he seemed to understand what I was looking for.

He promised a quote by email the next day and despite numerous prompts and requests (all of which have been ignored) I am still waiting. That was well before the Christmas rush and Prof Cox did his magic...

Gave up in the end and went to Ian King. Great service, very helpful and now all sorted.

Guys at FLO offered great advice and service too but Ian was able to sort a specific need.

Thanks Ian, you have my gratitude and long term custom.

[vlebo]

Please name and shame the shop, they certainly deserve it we all need to know who to avoid, it doesn't cost any thing for a bit of customer service.

Cheers

Neil

You mean The Widescreen Centre in Dorset St W1 , I wouldn't do business with them if they were the last Astro shop in the UK.

[brantuk]

Hmmm...not my experience at all. When I visited them I had very good service from the owner in person - loads of advice and help selecting the bits I needed.

Email replies were a tad slow and I felt the shop was slightly over the going prices - but it is central London and generally they were very friendly and professional.

[Steep]

Please name and shame the shop, they certainly deserve it we all need to know who to avoid, it doesn't cost any thing for a bit of customer service.

Cheers

Neil

They are a business, they are not a lending library of knowledge. Why should any business give away information to someone who will not spend their cash with them? The op stated to them that they were his 'local telescope shop", clearly not local enough for him to have gone there in the first place.

I was in business for myself for many years and have lost count of the the "you give me this for nothing/cheap and I'll give you more business later" offers I have received and happily turned down. If you want to support local business do it but don't go crying about lack of service from someone who's never made a penny out of you.

[Jimmy Stix]

They are a business, they are not a lending library of knowledge. Why should any business give away information to someone who will not spend their cash with them? The op stated to them that they were his 'local telescope shop", clearly not local enough for him to have gone there in the first place.

I was in business for myself for many years and have lost count of the the "you give me this for nothing/cheap and I'll give you more business later" offers I have received and happily turned down. If you want to support local business do it but don't go crying about lack of service from someone who's never made a penny out of you.

But the OP was saying that he was seriously considering spending his money. Maybe he would not have minded paying a little more if they had provided a little advice in a friendly manner and it is surely the way to ensure repeat custom. This is a crazy way to treat people especially as the shop was empty.

[Capricorn]

Interesting points. I suppose that Billy made a good one. We buy from the least expensive, internet or otherwise but then walk into another place for help.

We wouldn't do it to a mechanic or somewhere like PC World. Didn't buy from you but want your support.

As you had a scope then perhaps all the person could see was that you may purchase a small item or two, then for the nice big TV Naglars you want it would be back to the net. Be honest, would you pay the cost of a Nagler from them or buy elsewhere and save £30-40. Checked the price difference and that's about right.

Support your local astronomy shop! But you didn't in the first place. Would pay a £2:00 visitor fee to an atsronomy club to visit and get advice.

They may have been a bit blunt, but they are running a business at the end of the day.

As you may be in central London try the Baker Street Irregular Astronomers, they meet at Regents Park and their next gathering is Jan 26 (think it is) they will probably be able to help

Probably the simplest way would have been to look perplexed, lost, confused and ask "Saw that programme the other week, if I bought one of these, how would I adjust the viewing position if it wasn't comfortable for me, or are they fixed?" Then go look at the other options (reflectors+refractors) and eventually drift out.

[Cellarman]

We frequently get "customers" in the shop who spend a long time picking our brains, looking at the goods on sale and comparing different makes, then say "thanks very much, I'll have a think about it" We know darn well that they will then go online and try to get the same stuff at just a few pounds cheaper. Some of these people can be in the shop for a couple of hours and we get nothing out of it. I wouldn't mind, but you have to do a lot of searching to find anyone cheaper and then it's not by a large amount.

We can only hope that some of these "customers" do in fact come back and buy from us.

The only time we've ever actually told someone to go away was this chap who would call in about 5 minutes before closing time, then want to look through every scope in the shop. After his third or fourth visit, during which he had never shown any intention of buying anything, my colleague told him not to bother to come back!

[umadog]

No excuse for that kind of behaviour. Blaming internet sales is also no excuse. They'll make sales if their customer relations are good and from what you describe this isn't the case.

When I was shopping for a scope I went to my local shop because I wanted to support them. The salesman explicitly told me not to buy through them because it would end up costing me many hundreds more. He was very honest with me and actively encouraged me not to buy one or two things in the shop because he knew they weren't what I was looking for. I have since gone out of my way to buy smaller things from there because I appreciated the honesty. A shop can offer things which on-line can't and a good salesman will make a customer realise this. I don't mind pay a little extra if it means I can return items easily and get useful advice.

[shaunster]

well if its the shop I think then they are allways more expensive then everywhere else as well and not buy just a few pounds!

[brantuk]

"As you may be in central London try the Baker Street Irregular Astronomers, they meet at Regents Park and their next gathering is Jan 26 (think it is) they will probably be able to help"

Hmmm... hope you realise that this group is organised and run by the Widescreen Center and the very same shop owner is usually present

[Ant]

Can I remind everyone that supplier bashing is not tolerated on SGL.

You can use the supplier review board to post about your purchase with a specific company.

We will lock threads that degenerate into supplier bashing...

Cheers

Ant

[Macavity]

Sadly, I can well see the shop's POV. When a good (personal) mate's software stopped working, I provided generic advice to one of his users re. running his program, in his absence. Unfortunately my friend and I worked for different physics collaborations, headed by professors, who enjoyed a bitter rivalry and mutual emnity over many years. <G> The ensuing, top-level ROW - You'd have thought I had "sold secrets to the Russians", had to be seen to be believed.

My mate returned and had a benign chuckle at my considerable discomfiture. LOL. But, even without any commercial profit involved, I became VERY wary about giving "free advice" on anything, which I had not authored, "sold", whatever. Naivety and helpfulness can be engaging, but is often too much of a risk...

Actually, I was (am) thinking of buying a Russian MAK from "that lot" though...

[John S]

Vacuum Coatings are in Barratt Road E17.

They coat telescope mirrors up to 40 inches something worth seeing if they are not busy. Its a telescope makers emporium.

They have the Skywatcher range on their list if you google them.

Terry Peace teaches Telescope Making so he could show you to make anything to do with Telescopes in his classes.

I used to spend hours in his shop and regrettably Im not near London so could not attend his classes. He is the most helpful person on telescopes Ive ever met.

John.

[rorschach]

Thanks John, I'll look into them.

In reply to some of the posters, it is not my intention to "supplier bash" and would encorage others not to do so as well.

As stated , my intention was to look at Barlows with a view to buying from them, I have purchased from them recently in the past for my son's ETX.

I am not "moaning" about poor service , but rather the lack of it. I can only assume , that as I was in uniform, and asked a simple question first, the person in question ASSUMED i was not going to buy anything.

as I say , I will not be going back there, He was rude in my opinion.

I am not talking of anyone elses experience, but mine alone. If you get good service from somewhere , as some of you obviously have from this place, you return custom...not unfortunatly in my case.

[Tim]

Shame, I have bought bits and bobs from TWC from time to time, and have found them pretty good. Not the cheapest, but then they have a London showroom and associated overheads, and it is nice sometimes to have the goods in your hands before you buy them, and be able to take them away of course. (Congestion charge too when I went )

As for the customer service........it's a tricky one, but there is a general rule, you just bite your lip and offer the advice, in the hope of converting the customer to buying from you. I am the manager of a retail garden centre, and some of the things we get from customers/visitors are priceless. As we have a large showroom for our landscaping goods, which is advertised on the WWW for the whole of the Midlands, we do expect a percentage of visitors that will not be buying from ourselves, but some of them take the biscuit. Here are some genuine statements we have had;

"Is there anybody else in the local area I can buy from?"

"I'm going to buy it on the internet because it's cheaper but I need X advice about it"

But my favourite of all was a lady who came in last year with a rose, saying she had bought it from us but the colours were wrong and could she have a refund? I asked for her receipt, which she didn't have, but she absolutely insisted she had bought the rose from me, even showing me on the benches where it was from. It was at this point I indicated the label stuck to the pot which said "Smiths Garden Centre", the name of our competitor just up the road

So really, I can see this from both viewpoints, and while I completely understand the frustration of the guy at TWC, I'd perhaps suggest that the old "Customer is King" adage really goes a long way to ensuring future sales. One of the most gratifying responses for me is when people say "I wish I'd bought it from you now!", that way, I know i'm doing my job right

Heaven knows, customers, even potential ones are hard enough to come by these days :s

TJ

[drummerp]

I was in business for myself

Well if your customer service was as ignorant as the shop this thread is about then I can see why your no londer "in business"

Nevermind

[drummerp]

but they are running a business at the end of the day.

I agree, they are running up business but if they try harder to run the business they may suceed and gain more custom in the process.

If we all had good local shops thet were willing to help, we would all prefer to spend our hard earned cash in their shops and not soo much on the internet.

Like I said previously, it doesnt cost the staff in the shop anything for a bit of good old brittish customer service.

Cheers

Neil

[Midpoint]

Just to add a bit of balance, I bought my telescope from them last year. I found them very helpful with their advice and they allowed me to try a few eyepieces in the scope I was interested in so I see the difference between them (admittedly, you're not going to get the best views from inside a shop in Central London at lunchtime ). I was very grateful to be able to walk into a shop to actually see what I was buying before I committed my money.

[dark star]

I have always found the shop helpful and informative, but then I have only gone there when I had something I wanted to buy! I have never had problems with anything I have bought there, which I guess for me is the most important thing.

Vacuum Coatings, Scientific Mirrors is great and I am sure the guy there has forgotten more about telescopes than I will probably ever know! The last time I went there, to collect a 40mm Aero Ed eyepiece (I live not far away), he found a great 2 inch 1.6 x Antares Barlow in a cupboard that I was very happy to buy!

[rorschach]

tbh , that was what I wanted , I am new to all this, and thought going into a shop would offer the best advise ,face to face, and walk out happy with a better Barlow for the clear skys tomorrow night! (ok a bit too much eh! lol)

maybe he was having an off day? the sales person was willing to help, but was stopped...hey ho

[StarryEyes]

I can understand that it must be irritating that people buy kit from the internet and then go into a shop to ask advice on it, but this person could have really shot themselves in the foot now because I am guessing that you will probably not go back there, (I probably wouldn't if it was me) so has lost future sales with you and word of mouth probably won't help them.

Seems a strange thing for them to do.

[Doug]

Hi

Yes, this is the shop that charges more then the others and as it's the only shop in London as far as I know

Doug

Essex

[Mr Spock]

I don't mean to be harsh towards businesses, but if you want custom you should be more competitive.

I go in to HMV and peruse the latest Blu-Ray movies, look at the price of £24.99, then go home and buy from Play.com for £17.99 - no brainer really.

[Astro_Baby]

I used to be in sale myself, a better sales approach would have been to have give some advice thats generic but only if the shop was quiet and there were staff free.

Its good for anyone walking past to see the shop full is one reason. I do take on board the thing that people will tyre kick and then push off for the cheapest prices. Thats poor selling again at work. I used to sell part time (cos I love it so much) in a white good stores and no one was ever allowed to get out the store without buying Seriously you have to pick your customer. If its some 17 year old single mum your never going to see her the latest AEG £1000 washing machine so you pass her by and wait for yummy mummy in a range rover. Doesnt mean you wont sell the 17 year old something.

Anyway - I take my cue from years ago when I was a clueless 18 year old secretary in search of a Triumph GT6 second hand. I was told a local super posh dealer had one round the back so I popped in, the dealer sold Ferrari, Rolls, Maserati. The rather old chap in the show room address me as Madam, was courteoud, polite, never patronising, offered me a coffee and said he would go and ask but it seemed unlikley. When he came I had my head inside a Ferrari (just curious) and he said with a twinkle in his eye and no malice 'I think you will find its more than you want to spend' I agreed and he smiled and said 'who know - one day it might be yours - would you like to have a sit in it' he let me have a seat in the car, spendt probably half an hour letting me look over it, showing me the gleaming motor gubbins etc.

I always look back on that and think what a great salesman - heres why - look for the oak in the acorn. I NEVER made the mistake when selling of not doing it and its amazing how ofetn someone comes back and pays over the odds - happens more often than you might think.

A month or so agao I bought a Nespresso machine froma shope - paid £20 over the online price but I did because the shop gave me a demo two weeks earlier and helped refine my choices. The girl in the shop talked through why one was better than the other, even made me a cup of coffee from one so I could see what it was like, how it worked etc. (these things by the way are a minefield like telescopes).

There you go again - good selling.

A bit of time when the sales staff arent busy costs nothing, makes the shope look good to people passing, maybe the customer comes back, maybe he doesnt but that can happen if you you ring the till that day and at worst you give a good front of house - look at how many ill words are on this thread - how much damage to you think that has done their sales for the next few days ? Maybe not a lot but a thread saying 'wow went into XYZ and had great service' would have been a better thing.

[iamjulian]

The fact that the OP says he will never buy from them in the future, and the fact that the OP shared his experience with perhaps 100 other potential customers, is all you need to know when deciding whether their sales technique was good or bad.