How not to win sales....

[AndyH]

Triumph GT6......one of my dream cars. Yum. That bump on the bonnet. Gets my knees trembling. Haven't seen one in years.

[robwoods]

I have had similar experiences to both the OP and the store in question, I am a sales manager for a volume motor main dealer, we are getting more and more people visiting us asking for advice on the car they bought off the internet but didn't get any of the controls explained to them. It is incredibly frustrating as we rely on hitting registration targets to make profit ( we certainly don't make it in the chassis any more) I know there are savings to be made using online brokers who work from home with £nil overheads, as we have premises staff and demonstrator vehicles to pay for, but it for exactly this reason we have to try and build relationships with anyone visiting our premises. I bought my new scope very recently and researched prices online before visiting my local shop, I was given great advice and was happy to pay a little extra (and it was only a little) because I place value in the relationship.This paid dividends when I was struggling to get time off to collect my new toy, Ian from the shop agreed to let me collect from his home that evening, already semi assembled and collimated. shame he couldn't do anything about the weather!

[Astro_Baby]

Andy - I never got the GT6 in the end. I ended up with Spitfire MkIII called Judy. I loved that car and its one of two cars I really miss.

The other one was my Rover 2000TC (P6 Pre facelift) - I went to the National Motor Museum last year and they had an identical one to mine in there. The guy at the Museum even let me have a sit in it and my eyes were wet for a day afterwards

[Sp@ce_d]

Triumph GT6......one of my dream cars. Yum. That bump on the bonnet. Gets my knees trembling. Haven't seen one in years.

Gosh thats going back.. Nearest I got was a Triumph Vitesse.. same engine I believe

[AndyH]

Our beloved yellow Triumph Dolomite, Betsy, was THE best car I've ever had. Cost me £8-50 and I built her back to supreme running order. We even got a 'happy 21st' announcement at an ice hockey match for her. In fact Allison and I are going back to a classic Triumph once we run the french pile of manure into the ground, we currently have. Loved working on the mechanics of the triumphs.

Not sure what to go for. Maybe one of the huge 2500's or probably another Dolly as I have half a car in the loft. Engine, seats, bodywork, electrics. LOL.

Andy.

[Astro_Baby]

Yes it probably was the same mill inside. I turned down a GT6 Mk4 a few years ago. They get remembered as being fast but compared to my Puma it was like driving a bedstead

[Astro_Baby]

One of my flatmates had a Triumph 2500PI years ago but ran it into a ditch one night and it was totalled. Amazing really that so many of these classics at the end of the 1970s were bangers and run into the ground.

I can remember MkII Jags, Healey 3000s, Sprites, Midgets, Spitfires, Rover Coupes all being sold off for silly money. Paid £300 for the Rover and £400 for the Spitfire. I only paid £1600 for a Shelby Mustang what would it be worth now I wonder

My Rover p6 was semi totalled and sold for scrap. Some clueless fool pulled out in front of it one night and the P6 hit them squarely - the nose of my 1/2 ton P6 went squarely into the side of a Fiat 500 Topolino. How the driver and his passenger survived is a mystery to me as I smacked into them doing about 60mph and there was nothing left of the Fiat apart from its floor pan with two seats attached and two people who were like I have never been keen on Fiats since -

[Tim]

I don't mean to be harsh towards businesses, but if you want custom you should be more competitive.

I go in to HMV and peruse the latest Blu-Ray movies, look at the price of £24.99, then go home and buy from Play.com for £17.99 - no brainer really.

Sorry, that just isn't realistic.

Let's start with where you go into HMV. That means they have a shop, that means they pay rates, and rent, that means they have staff they pay to stock the store up, that means they have provided a warm, light, comfortable environment for you to spend as long as you like perusing the shelves, picking up in your own hands stock that has been bought and paid for, all the while protected by the insurance, health and safety provisions, and tended to by trained staff in smart uniforms who are all being paid to cater to your every whim.

Trust me, there are a HUGE amount of overheads that go along with owning and running a retail outlet, the fact that things cost more when you buy them in person simply reflects all of the above.

You mention HMV, from what I hear they are closing many stores to reduce overheads. No doubt people will moan like crazy when they close all together, becoming an internet only site, as they will have nowhere to go and look through the latest and greatest, but those same people are quite happy to save a few quid by buying online.

If you want the personal touch, if you want to visit shops in person, if you want advice from people who leave and breathe their business, then it is only natural to expect that better service, better provisions, will come at a slight premium. use it or lose it people!

Not that i'm a bitter shopkeeper or anything......

Tim

[Astro_Baby]

Oh I agree - I miss like mad the local DVD store - the problem with online is you can only browse what you know if you see what I mean. You cant just browse amongst all kinds of things and think 'hey -never heard of this but it looks intereting'

You cant put a serach into Google that says 'sjow me something that will interest me - tell you waht pick a randopm sample of discs that you thihnk will be to my taste'

I like to browse through stuff in a shop and be able to get it there and then. Not wait 6 weeks for some goof at Amazon to dispatch my order.

I always make a point of buying where theres service.

[JamesF]

I loved the GT6, too. So much so that I can remember exactly where and when I last saw one despite it being many years ago. What I'd really like though is another Alfasud, or a GTV6, from before they started making all the trim out of plastic. Of course I'd never be able to take it out in the wet in case it fell apart or stopped working

James

[reddoss]

Whom was it who said the British are a nation of shop keepers?

[spaceboy]

I have read most of the posts on this thread and I have noticed one thing in common, everyone is agreed the op spoke to "SALESMEN" as apposed to some employee just loitering. Whether you go in to a shop asking for advice with absolutely no intension to make a purchase or you go in to a shop with a monkey in you back pocket burning a hole the "SALESMAN" is there to earn his wages out of the punter. Even if you go in for advice and the salesman knows you have no intension of making a purchase he still has to try and encourage you to spend your hard earned in the shop. Internet shops don't in general have high overheads so they can offer competitive prices, but the high st shops do have high overheads and so they have to create business. This is done by "ADVERTISING" and "SELLING" items to you. I can understand the frustrations of a manager trying to run a business and having tyre kickers in from time to time but a poor company motto will fail both the customer and the business. Retail is a competitive market and this is why "SALESMEN" are employed to "SELL/ADVERTISE" themselves as much as the products they are offering. Their behavior was not professional and so they have lost custom. Not only from the op looking to buy a barlow but also from the ripple of bad "ADVERTISING" that has reached other potential customers.

There is no excuse for their poor customer service. It is of no concern whether it is the proprietor or the cleaner, they all have a job to do and they should do it correctly otherwise choose a different career path.

salesman

salesman [sáylzmən]

(plural salesmen [sáylzmən])

n

man employed to sell something: a man who sells goods or services, either in a shop or by contacting potential customers

SPACEBOY

[agileflower]

I have to say that I went into this shop just this past week and I got absolutely great service. This is despite my being an obviously 'well internet read' newbie who could easily have surfed and purchased. The staffperson gave me loads of useful information about what to consider in a scope (I'm shopping for my first one) given my circumstances and invited me along to the local club. I bought some binos from them to support them (where I could have bought them about a fiver cheaper online). I think its really important to support local businesses. That said, I think the OP was treated rudely and that is most unfortunate.

Tracy

[ollypenrice]

I seem to think their advertizing was all, 'Come and chat to us, mugs of coffee, discuss your needs, etc.'

Bit of a joke then, really. There are plenty of good guys in the astro trade, though, and we generally do know who they are...

Olly

[russ]

I actually walked out in disbelief

This is the second thread in seconds i've read of poor customer care by certain UK retailers. That's an awful way to treat a potential customer. And as Olly says, flies in the face of their slogan. Although it sounds like the shop assistant was fine but the owner a bit off.

[ollypenrice]

I agree with Tim and others that you can't have your cake and eat it. If you want a shop you can't just buy off the net. But that is not what happened here. A customer was asking for advice and wanting to make a purchase. The shop had a chance to demonstrate the virtue of buying from a shop, but they chose to blow that opportunity.

The message that comes through to me, rightly or wrongly, is that this shop is more about self than about service. So if you buy from them and have a problem, how far over backwards will they bend in order to sort it? In view of their attiude in this instance I would say, 'not very.' Maybe I am making a false connection but I have made it - and quite firmly.

Olly

[iamjulian]

You cant put a serach into Google that says 'show me something that will interest me - tell you what pick a random sample of discs that you think will be to my taste'

Not google, but other online services are available that do just this. It's called the semantic web and is growing quickly. Pandora.com was good but I don't think there is a killer app yet. The likes of Amazon and companies that are hanging their wares off the back of facebook likes are leading the way at the moment.

Quite agree that it is unrealistic that people should expect a physical shop and an online shop to offer the same price. Some products will always sell better "offline", but music/film is not a good example. The internet can and does have the ability to replace stores like HMV. Whether that is a good or a bad thing probably depends upon how old we are.

[eriwig]

I've had some unbelievable bad service experiences over the years and while I think I've maintained a pretty balanced view about shops v internet sales I have to agree I think the OP was treated badly.

Personally if I buy something online I look for my support and advice on forums and the like, shops are still the place I go to for some purchases tho, you just can't beat holding something in your hands or seeing how it actually works before it is delivered to your home.

Bad experiences stick with me for a long time though and would put me off going back to a shop or referring anyone else to it.

I think one of the biggest mistakes made by sales people is to assume they know what you want or what you are "capable" of buying. For example my husband and I went to a main car dealership to look at buying an Audi A6... From the moment the salesman saw us his attitude seemed to be that he was humouring us as we couldn't possibly afford the car given our age (and the fact we weren't exactly in our best outfits compared to some of the other buyers!). He constantly tried to speak past me to my husband despite the fact I was the one asking the questions and he kept leading us to smaller, older cars that he thought woudl suit us, ignoring completely everything we said we wanted!

When we finally saw one we like he refused to budge more than £50 on the asking price (given the market the car was overpriced by at least £3k but as we really liked the car we were just looking for a reasonable movement) and so we left.

2 days later he phoned to say they had another car (still nothing close to what we were looking for) that was almost £8k cheaper than the one we were looking at and it felt great to be able to tell him we weren't in the market to change any more as we had left his shop and went straight down the road to the local Jaguar dealer and ended up buying an x-type instead!

Difference in dealers was huge and the service offered was second to none. Would definitely go back to Jag and even spend more than we probably want just for the experience and the staff.

[davew]

At the time of writing this there have been 67 posts, 1385 views and a big thumbs down. I wouldn’t mind so much if this was a generic thread re bad service but it isn’t. It has been very personal at times.

Anyone wishing to give a possible explanation has been shouted down. Anyone reporting good service has been ignored.

There are three people that actually know what went on that day. One has posted here and two have not and are very unlikely to. The other few thousand members here, whatever there opinions of Astronomy traders, were not there. I don’t know the OP and think it unlikely he spinning a web of lies but there are three sides to every story. One the OP’s, one Simon’s and then of course there’s the reality with no human spin.

I have met Simon of WCS many times and on each occasion he has been courteous and helpful to me and everyone else in earshot. Don’t let’s rush off to London with our pitch forks and burn the place down. Eh ?

Dave.

[Ant]

The thread is fairly balanced. There is both good and bad about this particular retailer.

There are possible reasons given for the problems. The thread has now wandered off into a online vs offline stores now

[kniclander]

Whom was it who said the British are a nation of shop keepers?

Napoleon?

[russ]

I have met Simon of WCS many times and on each occasion he has been courteous and helpful to me and everyone else in earshot. Don’t let’s rush off to London with our pitch forks and burn the place down. Eh ?

I bought a secondhand scope from Simon and he was the most helpful person you could hope to meet. Also bought some bits from the Widescreen Centre with no issues.

So perhaps he was having an off day, just cheesed off with the number of people just browsing the shop but not buying since Stargazing Live.

[PortableAstronomer]

The shop had a chance to demonstrate the virtue of buying from a shop, but they chose to blow that opportunity.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I understand both sides to the coin, the shop has to draw a line between giving good advice to encourage future business, and on the other hand using resources to give too much free advice without sales. I'm disappointed to hear that story though, they could have at least given you a few mins and some pointers and some advice on really valuable things you could get with your scope.

[davew]

The thread is fairly balanced. There is both good and bad about this particular retailer.

To be fair to the thread and you I'll agree things could have got a lot worse. I note a post has been "edited" slightly and I'm glad to see it

I do stand by my words when I say we weren't there.

I also believe not all publicity is good. Ask Gerald Ratner.

If I was a newbie I feel sure I would now be giving Widescreen a wide bearth

Dave.

As for wandering, as we all know the best looking vehicle Triumph made was the TR4. GT6 indeed.

[spaceboy]

I've had some unbelievable bad service experiences over the years and while I think I've maintained a pretty balanced view about shops v internet sales I have to agree I think the OP was treated badly.

Personally if I buy something online I look for my support and advice on forums and the like, shops are still the place I go to for some purchases tho, you just can't beat holding something in your hands or seeing how it actually works before it is delivered to your home.

Bad experiences stick with me for a long time though and would put me off going back to a shop or referring anyone else to it.

I think one of the biggest mistakes made by sales people is to assume they know what you want or what you are "capable" of buying. For example my husband and I went to a main car dealership to look at buying an Audi A6... From the moment the salesman saw us his attitude seemed to be that he was humouring us as we couldn't possibly afford the car given our age (and the fact we weren't exactly in our best outfits compared to some of the other buyers!). He constantly tried to speak past me to my husband despite the fact I was the one asking the questions and he kept leading us to smaller, older cars that he thought woudl suit us, ignoring completely everything we said we wanted!

When we finally saw one we like he refused to budge more than £50 on the asking price (given the market the car was overpriced by at least £3k but as we really liked the car we were just looking for a reasonable movement) and so we left.

2 days later he phoned to say they had another car (still nothing close to what we were looking for) that was almost £8k cheaper than the one we were looking at and it felt great to be able to tell him we weren't in the market to change any more as we had left his shop and went straight down the road to the local Jaguar dealer and ended up buying an x-type instead!

Difference in dealers was huge and the service offered was second to none. Would definitely go back to Jag and even spend more than we probably want just for the experience and the staff.

You may find behind closed doors the salesman was encouraged to try and get rid of old stock (so to speak) It may be a brand new car you are getting with a 2011 plate but the car may have been built 2009-2010 and be close to being superseded by a newer specs model. It may come across to the punter that they are being be-littled but the salesman will get in this case more kudos for shifting an older cheaper model than a newer expensive model. We get a similar situation on supermarket shelves. Near sell by date items are moved to the front of the shelf and new stock placed to the back. If the old stock is not sold in time they are offered at greatly reduced prices or thrown in the bin making no profit at all. It's just good business and should not be taken personally Eriwig As for the salesman at Audi he did a terrible job by the sound of things. On the flip side the salesman at Jag WOW!!! you went out to buy an AUDI and knew what you wanted but you ended up buying a JAG "Now that's how you SELL!!!" WSC should get this guy in on the shop floor