Solar Scope. What would you buy ?

[GasGiant]

Ok folks, its that age old question.  One of those 'what should I get' questions

 

Im looking at getting a solar scope and obviously want to see as much detail as poss. However some of the scopes are massively expensive while some others are in reach financially 

In reach

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/lunt-solar-40-50mm-h-alpha-telescopes/lunt-ls50tha-h-alpha-solar-telescope.html

So, are there cheaper scopes with more features but maybe a bit lower in quality or should I look at higher quality with lower spec. Does that make sense ? 

I basically want to plop it on a tripod, attach my phone and take snaps but also use it traditionally and just look down it !

I have been doing the old YouTube and some the Lunt images are amazing, but the cost !! WOW !

 

Carl 

Edited March 5 by GasGiant

[Elp]

The Coronado PST is the lowest cost of entry for ha solar but they're not straightforward for imaging with.

Lunt also do a 40mm, there's a bit of a premium price wise if you're not US local.

Lunt was started up from ex Coronado employees so either will do, but Lunt is generally the better one to get now as they are a current operating company, and the pressure tuning is generally better mechanically. Coronado and assets are now owned by Meade I believe.

If you have a refractor already, you could look into a Daystar Quark, there is a quality lottery with them so best to buy from a reputable astro retailer with a good returns policy. If the refractor is more than 90-100mm aperture it's recommended to use a derf filter out front, they're not cheap.

Solar and cheap generally don't go hand in hand, utmost priority is safety.

Edited March 5 by Elp

[inedible_hulk]

I have the Lunt LS50THa. My only complaint is the lack of inward travel on the focuser. As a result not all eyepieces (or cameras for that matter) will reach focus. Personally I’ve found an 11mm TV plossal to be perfect. 
 

It’s a very different experience to other observing and I found it a bit frustrating to start with until I got a feel for the pressure tuner, how focussing works, getting my eye in etc. Now it’s probably my most used scope, ideal for a lunchtime session, but I’m not sure it’s for everyone.

[John]

I've owned a PST and a Lunt LS50 (both single stacked) and I've used a Lunt LS60 and once a LS100.

I don't have a great interest in solar observing so I didn't hang on to the PST of the LS50 for that long. Frankly I didn't find the views that impressive, or at least impressive enough to have that amount tied up in, what was then, a single purpose instrument.

I was impressed with what the LS60 could show though. That belongs to a society friend so I've used that quite a lot at outreach events and side by side with a PST. The LS60 showed noticeably more detail and contrast - quite engaging even for me 🙂

Maybe double stacking the PST or the LS50 would have delivered more from those ?

If I was to get more seriously involved with solar Ha observing I think I would go for an LS60 if I could or maybe a double stacked LS50. The LS100 was quite spectacular but the sun was quiet when I had the chance to use it. It's price is quite spectacular as well !

 

Edited March 5 by John

[Carbon Brush]

If you really want to spend on Ha, look at the Solar Observing section around Jan 2019.
There are quite a few entries about when I was trying to upgrade from PST.
Various discussions mentioned Quark, Lunt, Coronado, etc.
Some of it is still relevant today.

If you are happy to stick with white light, a Herschel wedge gives a lot of enjoyment for the ££ spent.

 

[Stu]

Good point regarding white light. If the OP hasn’t tried a Herschel Wedge in a decent refractor then that might be an option to try.

I must be easily satisfied because I actually found my PST40 gave great views, albeit at small image scale and limited resolution. The joy of a PST is that it can be used in a PST mod which I now have two of, a 102mm and a lunatic 150mm. This is probably the cheapest route to larger aperture Ha observing but needs competent DIY or someone to build it for you (as in my case) so I doubt it is what the OP is looking for in this instance. Just for reference though, my 150 probably cost me about the same as the Lunt 50 all in, by careful second hand purchasing of the various components over a period of some years.

Depending on what scope the OP has, Quarks can be an excellent option to decent aperture and great views. Buying from a reputable source with a good returns policy is essential though as the quality and reliability does vary. Mine had some variability in detail across the field of view but I was very impressed with the views whether it was full disk in a 60mm or high power in a 100mm.

 

[JeremyS]

I find my Lunt 50 (single stack) gives excellent views. I had to get a replacement filter a few years ago (supplied free, but I think you have to pay a few pounds now) - just beware if buying 2nd hand.

I generally use it with a hyperflex 21 to 7 zoom, but sometimes with Tak LE eyepieces. All these come to focus.

[John]

I have probably experienced a combination of unrealistic expectations and under-performing examples of Ha scopes - they do seem to vary, as can the Quarks, according to reports.

The Lunt 60 did impress though.

My current solar observing equipment is a Lunt 1.25 inch Herschel Wedge for white light observations and that does produce some nice views coupled with one of my refractors 🙂

Edited March 5 by John

[Mark at Beaufort]

I bought my PST in early 2005 (yes 20 years ago early next year) and it has been very good. About 5/6 years ago I bought the Double Stack from another member of SGL and it has proved a very good investment.

I use the PST with the Double Stack must days when the Sun is out. In fact I used it today.

I never regret buying the PST but you really need the Double Stack.

[Owmuchonomy]

I have owned a Lunt 50, 60 and 80.  The issue with the 50 is the difficulty in getting prime focus for imaging and the original request was for phone imaging.  I'd be surprised if you would get a decent phone image to come through using a dedicated Ha wavelength scope.  The helical focuser was also dreadful.  The Lunt 60 is a big leap in quality of viewing and focuser.  It is also much more capable as an imaging scope if you go for the bigger blocking filter.  The 80, well that's just another leap in capability.  If you are stuck with phone imaging I would suggest you may wish to go the white light route as discussed above especially whilst the Sun is close to maximum spot activity.

[Elp]

For phone imaging it's better to record video (as it's imaging at a faster frame rate), and then choose the best frame. It's the same as with planetary, the seeing will play a part in clarity at the specific moment. I've imaged through my PST with a phone via eyepiece but I was using my phone's burst capture mode (it'll keep taking images whilst I hold the shutter button down). I also imaged with the PST with my 290mm astro camera.

Edited March 5 by Elp

[GasGiant]

Cheers folks

Out of interest,  Why is there not such a thing as a  H a filter I can directly screw into my EPs ? 

Edited March 5 by GasGiant

[lunator]

27 minutes ago, GasGiant said:

Cheers folks

Out of interest,  Why is there not such a thing as a  H a filter I can directly screw into my EPs ? 

I believe the main reason is the scope would concentrate the light from the Sun which would potentially cause the filter to fail with catastrophic consequences for the observer.

 

[GasGiant]

2 minutes ago, lunator said:

I believe the main reason is the scope would concentrate the light from the Sun which would potentially cause the filter to fail with catastrophic consequences for the observer.

 

Ahhh !! 

[Neil H]

I had a limited budget so I got the DayStar solar scout and it's brilliant ,amazing views , you can get some surface details but not as much as a double stack but I could not afford 2K for a Lunt and 2.5K for the double stack , I did look at the DayStar quark but wanted  a grab and go solar set up , I also think my refractor at 127/1200 may not work well with a quark ?

[Stu]

4 hours ago, GasGiant said:

Cheers folks

Out of interest,  Why is there not such a thing as a  H a filter I can directly screw into my EPs ? 

There is for white light, and they are extremely dangerous as they do crack which can leave you blind!

I guess you could say the Quark was something along these lines for Ha in that it goes where the eyepiece normally goes, with an eyepiece in it aswell of course.

[Elp]

1 hour ago, GasGiant said:

Cheers folks

Out of interest,  Why is there not such a thing as a  H a filter I can directly screw into my EPs ? 

It's a very very tight bandpass, more so than DSO filters so hard to make and expensive. It's not just the bandpass filter, you have energy blocking filters too.

Edited March 5 by Elp

[Carbon Brush]

Methods vary between scopes, but I think this generic explanation of why you have to buy an expensive scope for Ha viewing is reasonable.

The Ha solar scopes initially filter out unwanted wavelengths. Starting at the objective and refining further down the scope.
Rejecting unwanted energy prevents scope heating. They remove the IR, the UV and most visible,  leaving a narrow red region.
The narrow red is passed to the etalon. This is a really really narowband filter that is necessary to view the filaments.
In addition, the actual wavelength has to be tunable/adjustable to get best views. Doppler shift - another word to introduce.
Adjustment is by tilting the etalon, or by altering the air pressure inside, or by altering temperature.
Tilt and pressure are immediate adjustments, temperature is slower.

To get the etalon bandwidth into perspective, it is typically 0.1 nanometres (nM) pass. Double stacking reduces to typically 0.05nM.
A visual Ha filter for night use has 50-100 times the pass bandwidth. So even if the energy rejection was done, it would not show the filament detail.

All manufacturers have to select their etalons from a mixed materials bucket containing research grade, to landfill quality. It is the way the material turns out.
This means if you get a report of first rate views from a scope type, if you go to buy another, it may be better or worse.
In the early days of the PST, I read about someone going to a retailer and setting up on the pavement. Selecting from the 3 scopes in stock, and seeing very different results.
In the early Quark days a lot of people returned poor quality product.
At a show I asked how the complete Daystar Ha scope could sell for less than a Quark eyepiece. The retailer could not (or would not) provide an answer.

HTH, David.

[Steve Ward]

18 hours ago, GasGiant said:

Cheers folks

Out of interest,  Why is there not such a thing as a  H a filter I can directly screw into my EPs ? 

All the information you'll ever need on the subject is in these two threads on Cloudy Nights ... 😖

 

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/164085-using-a-nightime-h-alpha-filter-for-solar-viewing/#entry2124904

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/430402-nighttime-h-alpha-filter-for-solar-viewing-part-2/

[GasGiant]

Some great info here folks. Thanks for the input.

[Naughty Neal]

The cheapest solar option is basic and costs about £25 , Baader nd.5 solarfilm . Other wise one is looking at 100's if not 1000's of £££'s to see proms etc, etc. 

Solar film is  good for sketching and viewing sfc sun spots.

[GasGiant]

Yeah, I've got solar film on my dob but hungry for more detail 😋 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I have used various H-alpha scopes for imaging, starting with a second-hand Lunt LS35THa. Despite this not being intended for imaging, I got some pretty neat results (with a planetary camera attached).

I then got a Coronado SolarMax-II 60mm, to which I later added a double-stack unit. I still have this one at work for visual purposes, after I got a second-hand Solar Spectrum H-alpha filter with telecentric lens (sort of similar to a Quark) which I use in my APM 80mm triplet refractor. The difference between the three systems in imaging is shown below (click for full resolution)

Left to right: Lunt LS35THa, Coronado 60 mm single stack, APM 80mm with Beloptik Tri-Band ERF, Solar Spectrum 0.3 Å H-alpha filter and Baader TZ4 telecentric

 

[josefk]

Hi @michael.h.f.wilkinson - i have a daft question 🙂 Are those three images of increasing scale and resolution with increasing aperture relatable to what would be seen as "betterness" visually or is the greater capability of the larger apertures most apparent when captured by a camera?

I actually like all three BTW and would be over them moon if anything like the LS35THa view was achievable visually with a solar scope at the lower end of the scale for aperture (and cost)...I've never observed H-Alpha and like the OP and like many others i've read in threads like this i'm wondering at what level to "buy-in" to something i have no experience with...

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

2 minutes ago, josefk said:

Hi @michael.h.f.wilkinson - i have a daft question 🙂 Are those three images of increasing scale and resolution with increasing aperture relatable to what would be seen as "betterness" visually or is the greater capability of the larger apertures most apparent when captured by a camera?

I actually like all three BTW and would be over them moon if anything like the LS35THa view was achievable visually with a solar scope at the lower end of the scale for aperture (and cost)...I've never observed H-Alpha and like the OP and like many others i've read in threads like this i'm wondering at what level to "buy-in" to something i have no experience with...

It is always tricky to compare images with the visual impact in H-alpha. The H-alpha image itself is a uniform shade of red, and it takes a while to get used to that. I very often have people looking through the scope and first just seeing a red disk, and then suddenly gasp as the detail pops out. When imaging, I always use a monochrome camera, as I would be wasting 75% of the pixels otherwise. I then stack about 10-20% of the best shots, sharpen, and apply a colour look-up table which runs from black through red, to orange, then yellow and finally white, to bring out detail.

Regarding the image quality, aperture of course plays a big role, but the bandwidth of your etalon has a major role to play as well. The LS35 THa and SolarMax have a bandwidth of 0.7 Å (0.5 Å if double stacked). The Solar Spectrum filter is much narrower, and gives more contrast (at a lower apparent brightness).