What would the “best of each range” set be?

[John]

9 minutes ago, IB20 said:

Haha, nah I’ve grown to work with them. For some reason no Televue eyepieces focus with my scopes unless I pull them out further than the undercut, so they no longer bother me. 😁 

Tele Vue have a parfocal group called "B" and quite a lot of their eyepieces reach focus there - it's about 8mm further out than many other brands of eyepiece (eg: Pentax XW's).

TV plossls, Radians, 1.25 inch Panoptics, T6 Naglers, Nagler zooms and a few others are included in this group. 

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by John

[JeremyS]

27 minutes ago, John said:

Does this help ? 

The full set of this range and therefore the best one in it 😁

Good point John. My little beauty. 

[IB20]

I have to say, it’s a very aesthetically pleasing EP. I bet it’s even nicer to look through! What is it, 85°?

[lunator]

3 hours ago, IB20 said:

I think they appear on the 2nd hand market often enough to be warranted a shout. Vixen LVs the same. Something like the ZAOs, Monos, XOs and BGOs not so much though; those ortho fans are real hoarders. 😅

Yes we are😁

Got 7 of various FL and I'm not selling them 

Cheers

Ian

[IB20]

The 4mm TOE on Saturn tonight is absolutely blowing my mind. How good must the 3.3mm be! 😲

[mikeDnight]

7 hours ago, globular said:

Is this turning into a "what's the best set made up of mixtures of EPs" or is it still "what's the best EP from each set"?
Surely the Hyperions have a best one... even if not universally admired by all??  🤔

I really like the Hyperion 24mm. A number of years ago, paulastro and myself, along with another observing buddy named Derek, were observing with our refractors and comparing the legendary 24mm Panoptic with the 24mm Hyperion. Derek prefered his 24mm Panoptic, but after comparing the two eyepieces for quite some time, Paul and I felt the 24mm Hyperion was the nicer, more comfortable eyepiece to use. Star images in the scopes being used appeared sharp across the field in the Hyperion and the views it gave were every bit as good as the Panoptic but with greater comfort. I've since owned my own 24mm Panoptic, but it didn't win me over and I sold it on.

[John]

8 minutes ago, IB20 said:

The 4mm TOE on Saturn tonight is absolutely blowing my mind. How good must the 3.3mm be! 😲

Similar with my Nagler 2-4 zoom tonight. I think I've had glimpses of Mimas (mag 13) at 360x with the ED120.  Chuffed if that is the case 🙂

[bosun21]

4 hours ago, IB20 said:

Not seen a 30mm though…

@cajen2 has the 30mm from this range and they are apparently the same as the SL/APM  UFF 30mm.

[globular]

Another victim falls into the celestron ultima name trap 😀

[cajen2]

29 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

@cajen2 has the 30mm from this range and they are apparently the same as the SL/APM  UFF 30mm.

Yep.... Celestron Ultima Edge, APM, Altair.....and more. KUO makes 'em and they are rebadged by lots of companies. For some reason the CUE is the most expensive version, though I'm reliably informed that differences are purely cosmetic (it does look nice with its orange rings, mind!). A great EP - one of my favourites.

[Louis D]

16 hours ago, IB20 said:

I’ve often thought I’d like to collect a best of each range eyepiece set at each FL, if we are talking availability in the current eyepiece market.

Since the OP doesn't explicitly say new eyepiece market, I'll include readily available eyepieces in the used eyepiece market, since I have experience with several lines that are recently discontinued or partially discontinued.

For the Meade HD-60, I'd give the nod to the 6.5mm with the 9mm a close second best.  Both are very close in performance to premium eyepieces in my collection at similar focal lengths.

For the Starguider Dual ED (Paradigm), I liked the 12mm best despite not being great.  The 5mm and 8mm are technically better, but the ability to get sharp focus is a pain.  None rise to near premium levels, however.  Tight eye relief for eyeglass wearers is also a minus for the entire line except for the 25mm.

For the Nagler T4, the 22mm is easily the best of the three due to having the best behaved exit pupil (least SAEP) and longest eye relief.  Sharpness wise, the 17mm is very close, but the 22mm wins out.  The 12mm has severe EOFB sometimes extending almost to the center depending on conditions.  Other 12mm eyepieces didn't show this in side-by-side swaps.

For the ES-92, the 17mm is slightly sharper at edge than the 12mm and slightly contrastier across the field.  The exit pupil is also easier to hold in the 17mm due to have less SAEP than the 12mm.

For the 70 degree eyepieces known as Astro-Tech AF70, Omegon Redline SW, Celestron Ultima LX, etc., the 22mm is far and away the best, closely rivaling the 22mm NT4.  The 13mm and 17mm suffer from lateral chromatic aberration making them unusable for me.  I've also read that the 13mm has severe EOFB, but I haven't noticed it.  I haven't tried the 3.5mm, 5mm, and 8mm because I've read nothing but poor reports about them.

For the Morpheus, I can only compare the 9mm and 14mm.  Of those two, the 9mm is basically perfect center to edge while the 14mm has subtle field curvature and edge astigmatism.

For the Pentax XWs, I can only compare the 3.5mm, 7mm, and 40mm.  Of these three, the 3.5mm is basically perfect center to edge while I have issues with lateral chromatic aberration in the 7mm and field curvature and edge astigmatism in the 40mm.  If there was a 7mm Delos, I'd swap out the XW for it in a heartbeat.  I've considered the 6.5mm Morpheus, but I've read it is tight on usable eye relief relative to the 9mm and 14mm I have.

For the Pentax XLs, I can only compare the 5.2mm and 14mm.  Of those two, the 5.2mm is basically perfect center to edge while the 14mm has distinct field curvature, but is sharp to the edge once refocused.

Among the Aero/Lacerta ED, I can only compare the 35mm and 40mm.  Of those two, the 40mm is significantly better corrected center to edge.  It's almost the same correction-wise as the 40mm Pentax XW while being significantly lighter.  The 35mm ED is wider in AFOV, but has less usable eye relief, so these two ED eyepieces differ in more respects than just center to edge sharpness and contrast.

For the APM Hi-FW, the 12.5mm is the automatic winner because there is only one focal length in the line.  I really like it despite reports of EOFB that I have yet to notice.  It is what the 12mm NT4 should have been.

For the Delos, I only have the 10mm, but I have a hard time imagining any other focal length could improve on its sharpness and contrastiness.  Stars are pinpoint center to edge even without a coma corrector in my f/6 Dob.  I've swapped the CC in and out to confirm this.  Other eyepieces easily show the primary's coma without a CC while the Delos somehow does not.  I can't explain it.

For the Baader Scopos Extreme (Orion Stratus), I only have the 35mm, but it is very nearly perfectly corrected center to edge with exceptionally tight stars in the central 50%.  I've not been tempted to get the 30mm having read multiple reports putting it well behind the 35mm.  That, and I now have the 30mm APM UFF.

For the APM UFF, I can only compare the 24mm and 30mm.  Of those two, the 30mm is better corrected center to edge, but the 24mm is really the only game in town for long eye relief and maximum TFOV in a 1.25" 24mm eyepiece.  The 30mm is the sharpest 30mm eyepiece across the field that I've used, so I'd consider it best in class across eyepiece lines.

[IB20]

Thanks @Louis D! I think you’d really broaden your observing experiences if you had a few more eyepieces to try. Your collection sounds a bit limited… 🤣

Edited September 10, 2023 by IB20

[JeremyS]

8 hours ago, cajen2 said:

Yep.... Celestron Ultima Edge, APM, Altair.....and more. KUO makes 'em and they are rebadged by lots of companies. For some reason the CUE is the most expensive version, though I'm reliably informed that differences are purely cosmetic (it does look nice with its orange rings, mind!). A great EP - one of my favourites.

Didn’t @mikeDnight find one that wasn’t properly blackened. Altair I think. He had to paint it.

[JeremyS]

9 hours ago, IB20 said:

I have to say, it’s a very aesthetically pleasing EP. I bet it’s even nicer to look through! What is it, 85°?

Yes 85 deg

https://televue.com/televueopticstalk/2019/12/18/apollo-11mm-commemorative-now-shipping/

[Zermelo]

15 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Didn’t @mikeDnight find one that wasn’t properly blackened. Altair I think. He had to paint it.

Yes, the Altair. I have the same one - there's an unblackened retaining ring at the field end.

[cajen2]

 

49 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Didn’t @mikeDnight find one that wasn’t properly blackened. Altair I think. He had to paint it.

My Celestron U E certainly doesn't suffer from that. The ring is black.

[mikeDnight]

1 hour ago, cajen2 said:

 

My Celestron U E certainly doesn't suffer from that. The ring is black.

I think the Altair version, which is made from stainless steel and very heavy, is the only brand that is unblackened. It's something i didnt even think about checking when i bought it. Performance wise however, it really is a very nice eyepiece. Great door stop too!

[Ricochet]

15 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

I love Pentax XW's, especially all from 10mm to 3.5mm. Didn't care for the 14mm much, though the 20mm was pretty nice on deep sky.

It's funny you say that, as I have your old 14XW and if anything it's my favourite XW. Different scopes though, as I use it for DSOs in my F6 Dob where it gives a 2.3mm exit pupil, which is ideal, where as you would have been using it in what, your DC, where the exit pupil would have fallen below 2mm and so the 20mm would have been much more suitable for DSOs. Of course the radius of curvature is much greater in my scope too, so it will contribute less to the overall curvature of the system, which is the main complaint in the 14-40 XWs.

[Don Pensack]

On 09/09/2023 at 10:48, IB20 said:

Again the Delos range, seem to have more fans on the other side of the pond than here but seem like they’d be outstanding EPs. Perhaps it’s just that us Japanese glass fans make the most noise?!

The Delos eyepieces are made in Taiwan of Japanese glass.

[Don Pensack]

21 hours ago, IB20 said:

Haha, nah I’ve grown to work with them. For some reason no Televue eyepieces focus with my scopes unless I pull them out further than the undercut, so they no longer bother me. 😁 

Fill the undercuts with metal tape (copper and aluminum both easily acquired), and then the eyepieces can be inserted and removed without catching.

 

23 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

My favourite low power Televue eyepiece has to be the 35mm Panoptic. In my 101mm SDF my 31mm Nagler gave a full 5° field, but the outer field was not sharp. In contrast, the 35mm Panoptic gave a 4.5° field that was sharp right to the edge. The 35mm is considerably lighter, and to me at least somewhat more comfortable to observe with. The wider field of the 31mm Nagler was rendered pointless due to the distortion and I eventually sold the 31mm in favour of the 35mm.

 

Interesting.  I found the 31 Nagler sharp to the edge and the 35 Panoptic had field curvature.  That's in a dob of 1825mm focal length, however.

[Don Pensack]

20 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

I really like the Hyperion 24mm. A number of years ago, paulastro and myself, along with another observing buddy named Derek, were observing with our refractors and comparing the legendary 24mm Panoptic with the 24mm Hyperion. Derek prefered his 24mm Panoptic, but after comparing the two eyepieces for quite some time, Paul and I felt the 24mm Hyperion was the nicer, more comfortable eyepiece to use. Star images in the scopes being used appeared sharp across the field in the Hyperion and the views it gave were every bit as good as the Panoptic but with greater comfort. I've since owned my own 24mm Panoptic, but it didn't win me over and I sold it on.

Very interesting.  Nearly everyone who uses the 24mm Hyperion in a scope of f/6 or shorter eventually sells it because only the center 50% of the field is sharp.

It does have more eye relief than the Panoptic, though.

Then there is the APM UFF 24mm, which has the eye relief and better sharpness at f/6 and lower.

[Don Pensack]

17 hours ago, Louis D said:

Since the OP doesn't explicitly say new eyepiece market, I'll include readily available eyepieces in the used eyepiece market, since I have experience with several lines that are recently discontinued or partially discontinued.

For the Meade HD-60, I'd give the nod to the 6.5mm with the 9mm a close second best.  Both are very close in performance to premium eyepieces in my collection at similar focal lengths.

For the Starguider Dual ED (Paradigm), I liked the 12mm best despite not being great.  The 5mm and 8mm are technically better, but the ability to get sharp focus is a pain.  None rise to near premium levels, however.  Tight eye relief for eyeglass wearers is also a minus for the entire line except for the 25mm.

For the Nagler T4, the 22mm is easily the best of the three due to having the best behaved exit pupil (least SAEP) and longest eye relief.  Sharpness wise, the 17mm is very close, but the 22mm wins out.  The 12mm has severe EOFB sometimes extending almost to the center depending on conditions.  Other 12mm eyepieces didn't show this in side-by-side swaps.

For the ES-92, the 17mm is slightly sharper at edge than the 12mm and slightly contrastier across the field.  The exit pupil is also easier to hold in the 17mm due to have less SAEP than the 12mm.

For the 70 degree eyepieces known as Astro-Tech AF70, Omegon Redline SW, Celestron Ultima LX, etc., the 22mm is far and away the best, closely rivaling the 22mm NT4.  The 13mm and 17mm suffer from lateral chromatic aberration making them unusable for me.  I've also read that the 13mm has severe EOFB, but I haven't noticed it.  I haven't tried the 3.5mm, 5mm, and 8mm because I've read nothing but poor reports about them.

For the Morpheus, I can only compare the 9mm and 14mm.  Of those two, the 9mm is basically perfect center to edge while the 14mm has subtle field curvature and edge astigmatism.

For the Pentax XWs, I can only compare the 3.5mm, 7mm, and 40mm.  Of these three, the 3.5mm is basically perfect center to edge while I have issues with lateral chromatic aberration in the 7mm and field curvature and edge astigmatism in the 40mm.  If there was a 7mm Delos, I'd swap out the XW for it in a heartbeat.  I've considered the 6.5mm Morpheus, but I've read it is tight on usable eye relief relative to the 9mm and 14mm I have.

For the Pentax XLs, I can only compare the 5.2mm and 14mm.  Of those two, the 5.2mm is basically perfect center to edge while the 14mm has distinct field curvature, but is sharp to the edge once refocused.

Among the Aero/Lacerta ED, I can only compare the 35mm and 40mm.  Of those two, the 40mm is significantly better corrected center to edge.  It's almost the same correction-wise as the 40mm Pentax XW while being significantly lighter.  The 35mm ED is wider in AFOV, but has less usable eye relief, so these two ED eyepieces differ in more respects than just center to edge sharpness and contrast.

For the APM Hi-FW, the 12.5mm is the automatic winner because there is only one focal length in the line.  I really like it despite reports of EOFB that I have yet to notice.  It is what the 12mm NT4 should have been.

For the Delos, I only have the 10mm, but I have a hard time imagining any other focal length could improve on its sharpness and contrastiness.  Stars are pinpoint center to edge even without a coma corrector in my f/6 Dob.  I've swapped the CC in and out to confirm this.  Other eyepieces easily show the primary's coma without a CC while the Delos somehow does not.  I can't explain it.

For the Baader Scopos Extreme (Orion Stratus), I only have the 35mm, but it is very nearly perfectly corrected center to edge with exceptionally tight stars in the central 50%.  I've not been tempted to get the 30mm having read multiple reports putting it well behind the 35mm.  That, and I now have the 30mm APM UFF.

For the APM UFF, I can only compare the 24mm and 30mm.  Of those two, the 30mm is better corrected center to edge, but the 24mm is really the only game in town for long eye relief and maximum TFOV in a 1.25" 24mm eyepiece.  The 30mm is the sharpest 30mm eyepiece across the field that I've used, so I'd consider it best in class across eyepiece lines.

Louis, 

You might find these measurements useful if considering other focal lengths of Morpheus eyepieces:

I found I could use down to an effective eye relief of 14.3mm with glasses and still see the entire field.  The Morpheus 6.5mm had a little more effective eye relief than the 14mm.

Eyepiece............eye relief/depth of lens/effective eye relief from rubber(folded down) up to exit pupil:

APM UFF 30.0           22.0        -4.90     17.10
NAGLER 22.0            19.0        -3.00     16.00
MORPHEUS 17.5      23.0        -2.30      20.70
MORPHEUS 14.0      18.5        -2.30      16.20
MORPHEUS 12.5      20.0        -2.30      17.70
APOLLO 11.0            18.0        -3.70     14.30
MORPHEUS 9.0        21.0        -1.90      19.10
ETHOS 8.0               15.0        -3.20      11.80
APM XWA 7.0           13.0        -4.00      9.00
MORPHEUS 6.5        18.5        -1.70      16.80
ETHOS 6.0               15.0        -3.10      11.90
ETHOS SX 4.7          15.0        -5.25      9.75
MORPHEUS 4.5        17.5        -2.10      15.40
ETHOS SX 3.7          15.0        -5.20      9.80

[RobertI]

23 hours ago, JeremyS said:

Good point John. My little beauty. 

[RobertI]

23 hours ago, JeremyS said:

Good point John. My little beauty. 

If I had one of these beauties, it would be on show in a cabinet on my wall, so I could admire it in between sessions! 🙂. 

[IB20]

2 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

The Delos eyepieces are made in Taiwan of Japanese glass.

Oooh. 😁 

Do they have the same twist barrel mechanism as the Delites, as I wasn’t a huge fan of that style?