What would the “best of each range” set be?

[globular]

Is this turning into a "what's the best set made up of mixtures of EPs" or is it still "what's the best EP from each set"?
Surely the Hyperions have a best one... even if not universally admired by all??  🤔

[IB20]

6 minutes ago, globular said:

Is this turning into a "what's the best set made up of mixtures of EPs" or is it still "what's the best EP from each set"?
Surely the Hyperions have a best one... even if not universally admired by all??  🤔

Yea, let’s keep this to - the best EP of each range, but we have an LVW instead of the Hyperions 😉.

[John]

2 minutes ago, IB20 said:

.... we have an LVW instead of the Hyperions 😉.

They are different and I know which I prefer 🙂

[John]

38 minutes ago, IB20 said:

That’s what I meant, loved by all!

When I tried my first XW (the 10mm, loaned to me by FLO) I didn't like it at all. Then I read the instruction sheet ................. 🙄

[Don Pensack]

6 hours ago, IB20 said:

I’ve often thought I’d like to collect a best of each range eyepiece set at each FL, if we are talking availability in the current eyepiece market.

From my experience I’d probably think a 17.5mm Morpheus might be in there along with a 5mm XW and 4mm TOE.

Not tried an Ethos or Delos but the 13E seems well loved? Tried a Delite, fantastic optics but only tried the 13mm. Are Docters still available? Nikon NAV-HWs? Naglers? Masuyamas? Available plössls, orthos? 
What are SGLer’s experiences with their own eyepiece sets?

Why are there variances in quality of eyepiece ranges? What makes a truly exceptional eyepiece in a range and why are some poorer? Is it primarily aberration in faster scopes that highlights weakness? Obviously opinions on this can be very subjective but there usually is some consensus.

 

 

Interesting post.

My scope is a 12.5" f/5 (with Paracorr f/5.75).

These are the best in series to my eye, from over the years:

TeleVue:

Plössl--32mm; used--21mm original

Delite--18.2mm

Panoptic--24mm; used--22mm

Delos--10mm

Nagler--22mm T4 and 13mm/5mm T6 tie

Apollo 11--only used, but perhaps the best eyepiece TeleVue ever produced.

Ethos--6mm

Baader:

Hyperion--17mm

Morpheus--3-way tie among 12.5mm, 9mm, 4.5mm

Pentax:

XW 70--7mm

XW 85--16.5mm

APM:

UFF--30mm

XWA--7mm

Explore Scientific:

52°--no favorite

62°--26mm

68°--20mm

82°--6.7mm

92°--17mm

100°--5.5mm

 

Now I wear glasses at the eyepiece and my favorites have changed, but the above were from my tests of complete sets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Don Pensack

[John]

We are going to end up with a set that will drive folks with a touch of OCD nuts 😉

[IB20]

8 minutes ago, John said:

When I tried my first XW (the 10mm, loaned to me by FLO) I didn't like it at all. Then I read the instruction sheet ................. 🙄

I’ve found with the XWs that at night I like the twist mechanism down and in the day I like it fully extended. 🤷🏼

[IB20]

2 minutes ago, John said:

We are going to end up with a set that will drive folks with a touch of OCD nuts 😉

See I’m OCD enough to need an eyepiece at every FL but don’t care about what eyepiece range it’s from. 😅

[IB20]

9 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

Interesting post.

My scope is a 12.5" f/5 (with Paracorr f/5.75).

These are the best in series to my eye, from over the years:

TeleVue:

Plössl--32mm; used--21mm original

Delite--18.2mm

Panoptic--24mm; used--22mm

Delos--10mm

Nagler--22mm T4 and 13mm/5mm T6 tie

Apollo 11--only used, but perhaps the best eyepiece TeleVue ever produced.

Ethos--6mm

Baader:

Hyperion--17mm

Morpheus--3-way tie among 12.5mm, 9mm, 4.5mm

Pentax:

XW 70--7mm

XW 85--16.5mm

APM:

UFF--30mm

XWA--7mm

Explore Scientific:

52°--no favorite

62°--26mm

68°--20mm

82°--6.7mm

92°--17mm

100°--5.5mm

 

Now I wear glasses at the eyepiece and my favorites have changed, but the above were from my tests of complete sets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Superb post Don, thanks for your input. Do you know of any eyepiece ranges that really excel at 8mm?

[Saganite]

My nominations are, 

24mm Panoptic ....best of that range without doubt, utterly invincible....

13mm T6 Nagler 

I sold my 30 Pentax XW, replaced it with a Stellalyra UFF 30mm at half the cost and couldn't be happier, it really is sharp to the field stop in my  4" Vixen and my 6" APM ED.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Saganite

[IB20]

Is the StellaLyra UFF the same as the APM UFF? I think that has to go in the list if so!

[IB20]

30 minutes ago, John said:

They are different and I know which I prefer 🙂

John, it was your review of the Hyperions v LVWs that made me hold off from buying a used 8mm Hyperion. I know if a LVW came up i’d try to get it. One did in fact on SGL but I missed boat due to other Astro priorities. 🙄

[John]

5 minutes ago, IB20 said:

Is the StellaLyra UFF the same as the APM UFF? I think that has to go in the list if so!

I believe they are the same.

[IB20]

29 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

Interesting post.

My scope is a 12.5" f/5 (with Paracorr f/5.75).

These are the best in series to my eye, from over the years:

TeleVue:

Plössl--32mm; used--21mm original

Delite--18.2mm

Panoptic--24mm; used--22mm

Delos--10mm

Nagler--22mm T4 and 13mm/5mm T6 tie

Apollo 11--only used, but perhaps the best eyepiece TeleVue ever produced.

Ethos--6mm

Baader:

Hyperion--17mm

Morpheus--3-way tie among 12.5mm, 9mm, 4.5mm

Pentax:

XW 70--7mm

XW 85--16.5mm

APM:

UFF--30mm

XWA--7mm

Explore Scientific:

52°--no favorite

62°--26mm

68°--20mm

82°--6.7mm

92°--17mm

100°--5.5mm

 

Now I wear glasses at the eyepiece and my favorites have changed, but the above were from my tests of complete sets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don, you may have an answer to this, any idea why eyepieces in ranges have variance in quality? Is it the physics of the light path and lens design that makes it excel at a certain FL? I can’t believe it would be something like polish or manufacturing process but perhaps I’m wrong?

[Saganite]

15 minutes ago, IB20 said:

Is the StellaLyra UFF the same as the APM UFF? I think that has to go in the list if so!

I have had both in the last eighteen months and  they are the same eyepiece in different livery so far as I can see, certainly no difference in performance.

[Guest]

I dont believe in a "best" eyepiece.  Eyepieces are a personal choice based on what you are looking at with your equipment, your skies and how you like an object to look.  What someone likes in one eyepiece might not be the image you are looking for.  

[IB20]

Just now, Mike Q said:

I dont believe in a "best" eyepiece.  Eyepieces are a personal choice based on what you are looking at with your equipment, your skies and how you like an object to look.  What someone likes in one eyepiece might not be the image you are looking for.  

I understand, but there’s usually a consensus. The 10mm BCO is pretty much universally loved. I think I’ve seen one poor review of it but out of its own range it is widely regarded as the best out of the others.

[Saganite]

I doubt anyone takes it dead seriously, just a bit of fun between friends.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Saganite

[John]

45 minutes ago, IB20 said:

Don, you may have an answer to this, any idea why eyepieces in ranges have variance in quality? Is it the physics of the light path and lens design that makes it excel at a certain FL? I can’t believe it would be something like polish or manufacturing process but perhaps I’m wrong?

In lieu of a reply from Don, the optical design and performance diagrams below for the Pentax XW range show quite a variation in optics and performance characteristics across the range of focal lengths (the latest 85 degree ones are not included). Some of the focal lengths do better with certain scope types and some will appeal more to the observer depending on their preferences. It's quite complex  

Other brands / ranges have similar variations. Some ranges use what is known as a "scaled" design which is basically the same for each eyepiece in the range but with smaller modifications, lens spacing, etc, etc to deliver the range of focal lengths. With these scaled designs I guess it's quite possible that one or two focal lengths are optimal for the design and the manufacturer accepts minor  compromises in other focal lengths in return for manufacturing simplification.

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by John

[The60mmKid]

22 minutes ago, Saganite said:

I doubt anyone takes it dead seriously, just a bit fun between friends.

Wrong. This is life-or-death stuff. We backyard astronomers live on the edge.

 

 

13mm Nagler T6. Best of the best at doing the best things.

[Don Pensack]

1 hour ago, IB20 said:

Superb post Don, thanks for your input. Do you know of any eyepiece ranges that really excel at 8mm?

TeleVue Delos 8mm was sharper than the 8mm Ethos in my scope on the same night.

[Don Pensack]

54 minutes ago, IB20 said:

Don, you may have an answer to this, any idea why eyepieces in ranges have variance in quality? Is it the physics of the light path and lens design that makes it excel at a certain FL? I can’t believe it would be something like polish or manufacturing process but perhaps I’m wrong?

A particular design may be close to perfect in one focal length, but once the lens diameters and spacing start changing, differences crop up.

And if the lineup is not scaled, but tries to maintain a constant eye relief among all the focal lengths, then each eyepiece in the line will have to be different internally to accomplish that.

And one focal length will then be the one closer to the ideal configuration for the eye relief and lens configuration, with small compromises in the other focal lengths.

Plus, in any lineup, the number of elements may change as you go from long to short focal lengths.

Now, each eyepiece focal length could be completely independently designed, but no designer is likely to do that when another focal length can be created merely by lengthening the distance between negative field lens and upper section of the eyepiece.

And, people come and go in companies, so not every focal length may have been designed by the same optical designer.

 

There is also a variation from sample to sample in the same model and focal length, but those differences are a magnitude smaller than the differences between focal lengths.

Nonetheless, if an observer were completely fussy about getting a particular eyepiece as close to perfection as possible, it might be desirable to buy 5 of a particular eyepiece and compare all five in the scope on the same night.

I've done so with 3 samples of the same eyepiece or star diagonal and seen noticeable differences, albeit quite small.

[Don Pensack]

51 minutes ago, Mike Q said:

I don't believe in a "best" eyepiece.  Eyepieces are a personal choice based on what you are looking at with your equipment, your skies and how you like an object to look.  What someone likes in one eyepiece might not be the image you are looking for.  

And you would be right.  The best eyepiece in a line is heavily dependent on the scope and the skies and expectations of the observer.

And, what is best, anyway?

Best sharpness at the edge?

Least chromatic aberration?

Flattest field?

Most in-focus field stop?

Best contrast?

Longest eye relief?

Best eyecup design?

Lightest weight?

Smallest size?

Best external polish and plating?

Best rendition of colors?

etc.

No one eyepiece is likely to be the best in all categories of evaluation, and there is no perfect eyepiece.

Still, if you live with a complete line of eyepieces and use them over time, you will form an opinion about which one in the series is best.

There may not be just one best, either, or one might be sharpest but another yield the best contrast.  How then would you identify the best in the line?

 

Still, this is a fun thread and it will be interesting to see what people come up with.  Will there be a consensus on any eyepiece?

 

 

[IB20]

One range I’m very fond on is the Ultima and its iterations. I have the 12.5mm Celestron and the 7.5mm Orion Ultrascopic. Find them exceptional glass, any consensus on the “best” of the range? Read great things about the 30mm!

[DirkSteele]

Not much to add above what has already been posted but I own a number of Delos among many EPs and have tried others I do not own, and the 10mm has been the stand out in that range. It is why I have never considered the 10mm Ethos.