What would the “best of each range” set be?

[IB20]

I’ve often thought I’d like to collect a best of each range eyepiece set at each FL, if we are talking availability in the current eyepiece market.

From my experience I’d probably think a 17.5mm Morpheus might be in there along with a 5mm XW and 4mm TOE.

Not tried an Ethos or Delos but the 13E seems well loved? Tried a Delite, fantastic optics but only tried the 13mm. Are Docters still available? Nikon NAV-HWs? Naglers? Masuyamas? Available plössls, orthos? 
What are SGLer’s experiences with their own eyepiece sets?

Why are there variances in quality of eyepiece ranges? What makes a truly exceptional eyepiece in a range and why are some poorer? Is it primarily aberration in faster scopes that highlights weakness? Obviously opinions on this can be very subjective but there usually is some consensus.

 

 

[Mr Spock]

Try finding a 22mm LVW. People won't let go of them for a reason!
I'd also add the 30mm UFF - sharp right to the edge.

[IB20]

2 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

Try finding a 22mm LVW. People won't let go of them for a reason!
I'd also add the 30mm UFF - sharp right to the edge.

Is the 22lvw 1.25”?

[Mr Spock]

9 minutes ago, IB20 said:

Is the 22lvw 1.25”?

Yes.

[John]

I can only speak for the ones I currently own or have owned recently and the differences I've seen are generally miniscule, if I have seen them at all !

I tend to agree regarding the 5mm XW. I actually really like all the XW's shorter than 14mm.

I have only used the 17.3 and 14mm Delos and feel that the latter (which I still have) was slightly better than the former but there are a lot that I have not used.

My preferred Panoptic is the 24mm but I've not used any of the 2 inchers in that range.

The 2-4mm Nagler zoom seems brilliant to me and I've owned a couple of the 3-6's but not held on to them. The latter ones are supposed to be a little better than the 2-4's though according to a Russian gentleman 😉

Of the Ethos I own (21mm, 13mm, 8mm, 6mm and 4.7mm) I believe that the 6mm is the best optically but to my eye they are all superb. The 10mm is also reputed to be one of the very best Ethos but I've not used that one.

I have owned several sets of TV plossls (old and new types) and, from what I recall, the 20mm and 25mm were probably the best of those, optically.

I've owned a few Vixen LVW's and agree with @Mr Spock that the 22mm is pretty special. 

I've owned both the ES 92's and felt that the 17mm was more comfortable for me to use so kept that one for longer. Both were very, very good optical performers though. The best that ES have produced IMHO.

The only Nagler that I still have is the 31mm. I've owned most of those in the past and the stand outs back then were probably the 22mm T4 and the 13mm T6. 

I only owned 2 Radians, the 4mm and 3mm and preferred the 3mm. Lots of other focal lengths in that range though.

Baader Classic's - the 10mm and 18mm were really excellent.

I've owned and used plenty more but the above are the ones that popped into my head as I thought about your question.

I think I'll defer to the expertise of someone like @Don Pensack to fathom out why some focal lengths seem to stand out from others in eyepiece ranges 🙂

With eyepiece choices being somewhat personal, what floats one persons boat may well have quite the opposite impact on another person of course, as we know well from threads on here and elsewhere 😉

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by John

[IB20]

18 minutes ago, John said:

I can only speak for the ones I currently own or have owned recently and the differences I've seen are generally miniscule, if I have seen them at all !

I tend to agree regarding the 5mm XW. I actually really like all the XW's shorter than 14mm.

I have only used the 17.3 and 14mm Delos and feel that the latter (which I still have) was slightly better than the former but there are a lot that I have not used.

My preferred Panoptic is the 24mm but I've not used any of the 2 inchers in that range.

The 2-4mm Nagler zoom seems brilliant to me and I've owned a couple of the 3-6's but not held on to them. The latter ones are supposed to be a little better than the 2-4's though according to a Russian gentleman 😉

Of the Ethos I own (21mm, 13mm, 8mm, 6mm and 4.7mm) I believe that the 6mm is the best optically but to my eye they are all superb. The 10mm is also reputed to be one of the very best Ethos but I've not used that one.

I have owned several sets of TV plossls (old and new types) and, from what I recall, the 20mm and 25mm were probably the best of those, optically.

I've owned a few Vixen LVW's and agree with @Mr Spock that the 22mm is pretty special. 

I've owned both the ES 92's and felt that the 17mm was more comfortable for me to use so kept that one for longer.

The only Nagler that I still have is the 31mm. I've owned most of those in the past and the stand outs back then were probably the 22mm T4 and the 13mm T6. 

I only owned 2 Radians, the 4mm and 3mm and preferred the 3mm. Lots of other focal lengths in that range though.

Baader Classic's - the 10mm and 18mm were really excellent.

I've owned and used plenty more but the above are the ones that popped into my head as I thought about your question.

I think I'll defer to the expertise of someone like @Don Pensack to fathom out why some focal lengths seem to stand out from others in eyepiece ranges 🙂

With eyepiece choices being somewhat personal, what floats one persons boat may well have quite the opposite impact on another person of course, as we know well from threads on here and elsewhere 😉

 

Superb, thanks John. 

I’ve never tried any of the ES range. I don’t know, I just haven’t read many reports of users loving them, liked yes but they don’t seem as popular as other brands. Perhaps it’s a US/Europe thing?

What’s the deal with all the types of Naglers? Are they versions or is the type something to do with FL? 

Agree on the BCO 10mm, my workhorse eyepiece for a long time before I acquired the 10XW and 9mm BGO.

I can feel myself developing an Ethos itch, but at £659 that’s a 3rd of the way to a 100DC, which I have an itchier itch for 😅.

The 8mm Delos is very much on my radar but no idea if it’s the better end of its range.

[globular]

17 minutes ago, IB20 said:

I just haven’t read many reports of users loving them

I love my ES 92 12mm.

I placed an order for the ES 92 17mm with FLO in December 2020 and was still waiting for it over 2 years later when the XW85 16.5 came out earlier this year - so I gave up on the ES and got the XW.  (Which is fantastic btw). 
I think you don't hear many UK people enthusing over them because, for some reason, ES don't seem to want to ship them over the pond to us any more. 🙃

Edited September 9, 2023 by globular

[Littleguy80]

I think I’ve pretty much ended up with that kinda set. APM 30mm UFF, APM HDC 20mm, Docter 12.5mm, Delos 10mm, Pentax XW 5mm and Vixen HR 3.4mm. I started out with a more matching set but over time just starting picking whatever seemed best for my tastes at particular focal lengths. 

[John]

The Nagler ranges and history are quite complex. Here is a report from another forum which explains things:

naglers (cloudynights.com)

 

 

 

[John]

Just now, Littleguy80 said:

I think I’ve pretty much ended up with that kinda set. APM 30mm UFF, APM HDC 20mm, Docter 12.5mm, Delos 10mm, Pentax XW 5mm and Vixen HR 3.4mm. I started out with a more matching set but over time just starting picking whatever seemed best for my tastes at particular focal lengths. 

If I was starting out again that would be a set that I would be happy to live with🙂

[IB20]

4 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

I think I’ve pretty much ended up with that kinda set. APM 30mm UFF, APM HDC 20mm, Docter 12.5mm, Delos 10mm, Pentax XW 5mm and Vixen HR 3.4mm. I started out with a more matching set but over time just starting picking whatever seemed best for my tastes at particular focal lengths. 

Fabulous set! I paid for a Vixen HR 3.4mm on eBay but the seller had already sold it elsewhere. So it’s eyepiece I am actively pursuing. Love my TOEs though so I may just get the 3.3mm.

[Littleguy80]

3 minutes ago, IB20 said:

Fabulous set! I paid for a Vixen HR 3.4mm on eBay but the seller had already sold it elsewhere. So it’s eyepiece I am actively pursuing. Love my TOEs though so I may just get the 3.3mm.

I don’t think you’ll be disappointed with the TOE from what I’ve read. There’s not much to choose between them.

[Mr Spock]

The 3.3mm TOE is my favourite. Whether its x224 in the Tak, or x461 in the 12", it gives the sharpest views. 

[Roy Challen]

3 hours ago, John said:

I can only speak for the ones I currently own or have owned recently and the differences I've seen are generally miniscule, if I have seen them at all !

I tend to agree regarding the 5mm XW. I actually really like all the XW's shorter than 14mm.

I have only used the 17.3 and 14mm Delos and feel that the latter (which I still have) was slightly better than the former but there are a lot that I have not used.

My preferred Panoptic is the 24mm but I've not used any of the 2 inchers in that range.

The 2-4mm Nagler zoom seems brilliant to me and I've owned a couple of the 3-6's but not held on to them. The latter ones are supposed to be a little better than the 2-4's though according to a Russian gentleman 😉

Of the Ethos I own (21mm, 13mm, 8mm, 6mm and 4.7mm) I believe that the 6mm is the best optically but to my eye they are all superb. The 10mm is also reputed to be one of the very best Ethos but I've not used that one.

I have owned several sets of TV plossls (old and new types) and, from what I recall, the 20mm and 25mm were probably the best of those, optically.

I've owned a few Vixen LVW's and agree with @Mr Spock that the 22mm is pretty special. 

I've owned both the ES 92's and felt that the 17mm was more comfortable for me to use so kept that one for longer. Both were very, very good optical performers though. The best that ES have produced IMHO.

The only Nagler that I still have is the 31mm. I've owned most of those in the past and the stand outs back then were probably the 22mm T4 and the 13mm T6. 

I only owned 2 Radians, the 4mm and 3mm and preferred the 3mm. Lots of other focal lengths in that range though.

Baader Classic's - the 10mm and 18mm were really excellent.

I've owned and used plenty more but the above are the ones that popped into my head as I thought about your question.

I think I'll defer to the expertise of someone like @Don Pensack to fathom out why some focal lengths seem to stand out from others in eyepiece ranges 🙂

With eyepiece choices being somewhat personal, what floats one persons boat may well have quite the opposite impact on another person of course, as we know well from threads on here and elsewhere 😉

 

Agree with the 10 and 18 BCOs, and I love the others in this range. If I had to choose one, it would be the 10mm.

I'd love to try all the fancy eyepieces being mentioned in this thread, especially the TOEs and Vixen HRs (even though they'd only be of use in my FS60-CB) but they're all so expensive I really can't justify it even to myself 😄

[IB20]

What about the Vixen LVs and SLVs? I have the 6mm LV and it’s great, are all the others just as good or better? What are the stand outs of the SLV range?

[IB20]

So far we have:

• 3.3mm TOE
• 5mm Pentax XW
• 6mm Televue Ethos
• 10mm Baader Classic Ortho 
• 12.5mm Noblex Docter
• 17.5mm Baader Morpheus
• 22mm Vixen LVW

Nice set so far!

[Elp]

I used to have the TV 11, 20 and 32mm plossls. I kept the 32, reasoning was I wanted long ER pieces so everything else had to go, the 32 remains glasses usable. Funnily enough I kept my ES 6.7 82 even though I have to take my glasses off, but it might have to leave once I acquire a 7/5 XW.

I used to also have the WO SWANs 20, 15 and 9, kept the 9 as it's lenses are not in the best condition, but it also turns out to perform very well for HA solar (many eyepieces don't due to not controlling internal bloom very well).

Edited September 9, 2023 by Elp

[John]

I think those who need to wear glasses when observing are going to have some different favourites from those who don't. Some overlap as well of course 🙂

I liked the TV 32mm plossl when it had the eye cup extender fitted. Without that, I found holding the eye position tricky because the stock eyecup is not quite long enough. Someone who wears glasses would much prefer the eyepiece without the extender I'm sure.

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by John

[IB20]

9 minutes ago, John said:

I think those who need to wear glasses when observing are going to have some different favourites from those who don't. Some overlap as well of course 🙂

I think that’s why there are hardly any unfavourable reviews about the XWs! Eye relief, comfort, great ergonomics and awesome optics! Loved by glasses and non-glasses wearers alike.

Edited September 9, 2023 by IB20

[John]

1 minute ago, IB20 said:

I think that’s why there are few unfavourable reviews about the XWs! Eye relief, comfort, great ergonomics and awesome optics!

I thought XW's were, generally, glasses-friendly eyepieces ?

Edited September 9, 2023 by John

[Alan White]

As a glasses wearer in longer FL eyepieces, I need longer FL eyepieces that as John says influences my feeling.
But love the APM UFF 30, Vixen LVW 22, Delos 17,5, Morpheus 12.5, XW 10-5.
But scope choice, target choice etc. changes this as well.

 

[Alan White]

1 minute ago, John said:

I thought XW's were, generally, glasses-friendly eyepieces ?

They are John, I read that oddly first read as well.

 

[bosun21]

Just now, Alan White said:

They are John, I read that oddly first read as well.

 

Myself included, until I reread it again.

[IB20]

3 minutes ago, John said:

I thought XW's were, generally, glasses-friendly eyepieces ?

That’s what I meant, loved by all!

[IB20]

14 minutes ago, Alan White said:

As a glasses wearer in longer FL eyepieces, I need longer FL eyepieces that as John says influences my feeling.
But love the APM UFF 30, Vixen LVW 22, Delos 17,5, Morpheus 12.5, XW 10-5.
But scope choice, target choice etc. changes this as well.

 

I have 3 fracs f7-f12.75, a Ha scope and a f5.9 dob, so ideally they are the best in their ranges for those scopes. Maybe exclude the Ha scope, the TV plössls are the best I’ve used so far.

I guess if an eyepiece range doesn’t work as well in a faster scope, like Hyperions, then they probably won’t be in the mix.