That's put the Cat among the Pigeons! Nagler t6 11 and Pentax XW's

[Alan White]

Well having recently out of rosey memories I picked up a mint 11mm t6 Nagler.
It was expected to be an oh well, rosey glow and then sell on moment, a weakness of purchasing as I wanted a lift, BUT...

Having used this now, it flipping great and now has me again pondering the XW's as the Nagler is more compact and lighter,
i could not really see any discernable difference in 10XW (which is my loved up eyepiece) and the 11t6, both sharp, both easy to get my eye settled.

Now as the title says , 'That's put the Cat among the Pigeons!'

Stick with what I have, having only just settled back down with the 7 and 5 XW, the 7mm new 35 days ago or so from @FLO or 
Do I throw it all back up in the air and sell the XW's again (regret it no doubt) and buy the Nagler t6 in 7 and 5 instead and love it.
Oh I hate myself for putting myself in this situation, I must stop looking at for sale adverts.

Please feel free to throw comments, jokes at my expense etc. into the thread.

[Stu]

I do think the T6s are very overlooked and under-rated. Such amazing performance in a very small package. I have had 7, 3.5 and 2.5mm as I recall and enjoyed them a lot. How they deliver an 82 degree afov in something so small I don’t know.

As you probably know, I now have XWs up to 10mm and do enjoy them. All I can suggest is perhaps getting a 7mm so you would be able to compare directly between XW and T6 and then just see which ends up getting used the most.

[globular]

Eye relief is the biggest difference.  12mm for the Nagler T6's and 20mm for the XW's.

If you wear glasses to view, or have very recessed eye sockets, then you'd probably struggle to use the Naglers comfortably and  would probably choose the XW's (or Delos or Morpheus).

If not then the extra FOV and more compact design of the Nagler might win you over.  (Or add heft again and go Ethos for even more FOV?)

[Alan White]

Thanks chaps

Indeed a more compact package with shorter eye relief, I am ok no glasses to 11mm or a bit, so either option works with my scope, but a change of scope and bigger exit pupil might change things. Hmmmm 

 

[Louis D]

I have such long eye lashes that I end up touching the top of the eyepiece, and perhaps the eye lens itself, with short eye relief (12mm and less) eyepieces.  I find this very disconcerting and uncomfortable.  It can also leave eyelash gunk on the eye lens.  Normally I wear eyeglasses at the eyepiece due to strong astigmatism, but sometimes I'll check what tighter eye relief eyepiece FOVs look like without them to see if it is possible to take in the entire view comfortably.  This is less of an issue with volcano tops.  It's the flat tops that are bad.  Sometimes I can't even get in close enough due to the diameter of the eyepiece top exceeding the inner diameter of my eye socket (e.g., the 20mm Meade 5000 UWA).

[JTEC]

If you really want to set the cat among the pigeons, keep the Nagler and the XW, then get hold of a 10mm Delos. 🙂😼

[Alan White]

8 hours ago, JTEC said:

If you really want to set the cat among the pigeons, keep the Nagler and the XW, then get hold of a 10mm Delos. 🙂😼

Problem is the Delos is even more unwealdy and Turkey leg like and heavier still.
But I like the sugestion though.

[Alan White]

10 hours ago, Louis D said:

I have such long eye lashes that I end up touching the top of the eyepiece, and perhaps the eye lens itself, with short eye relief (12mm and less) eyepieces.  I find this very disconcerting and uncomfortable.  It can also leave eyelash gunk on the eye lens.  Normally I wear eyeglasses at the eyepiece due to strong astigmatism, but sometimes I'll check what tighter eye relief eyepiece FOVs look like without them to see if it is possible to take in the entire view comfortably.  This is less of an issue with volcano tops.  It's the flat tops that are bad.  Sometimes I can't even get in close enough due to the diameter of the eyepiece top exceeding the inner diameter of my eye socket (e.g., the 20mm Meade 5000 UWA).

I like the closer eye relief for some odd reason, the Nagler has a smaller footprint and does not in the t6 cause an issue for me.
The wider topped wide angles you mention make no sense to me with big flat tops, some folks must have enormous eye sockets!

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Eye relief is the killer issue for me. The XWs are perfect in this sense, and having a Nagler 31T5 (a.k.a. Panzerfaust), a 22T4, and ES 92 deg 12 and 17 mm EPs, the XWs seem really lightweight to me.

[Highburymark]

I thought the 11mm T6 was the best in the range Alan. And the most comfortable to use. But at 10mm and below I’d stick with XWs unless weight is a major issue, or unless you need the extra fov.

[Mr Spock]

I used to have a 7mm T6. Brilliant eyepiece - very sharp and easy to use. The size is a bonus.

The only negative for me was a odd shading and colour tint when you move your eye around when looking at the moon. I switched to an 8mm LVW which has none of these problems (though it feels ten times the size!).

With hind sight I might be tempted to put up with the negative for the convenience of size. That alone makes the T6s a winner.

[Highburymark]

I’d like to see a comparison between the T6 11mm and the £££££ Apollo 11mm. Bet they’re not that far apart.

[Don Pensack]

Differences of note:

--slight tint difference: 11T6 slightly warm.  Apollo 11 neutral.

--better presentation of color in the Apollo.  Red stars in clusters stand out better.

--longer eye relief in Apollo--usable with glasses.

--T6 11mm is 78° (measured).  Apollo is 85° (measured).

--very slight SAEP in 11mm T6 (slight).  None in Apollo 11.

--thin blue ring at the field stop is thicker in the 11mm T6.  In the Apollo, it's right at the very edge--as thin as I've seen in a complex eyepiece.

--the 11mm Apollo has a 2" threaded-on adapter provided.  Eyepiece is usable as 1.25" or 2".

--the Apollo is larger and heavier by several ounces.

--If looking at a very bright star or planet, some corneal reflection is visible in bounce back from eyepiece in the 11mm T6.  None in the Apollo 11

--vignetting--none in either

--edge of field astigmatism--none noticed at f/5 in either.  I can't say about f/4, though the Apollo 11 was sharp to the edge in a friend's f/3.45 32".

--Contrast and image brightness appears better in the Apollo, resembling the 10mm Ethos.  

 

Given the almost 4:1 difference in price, it's not hard to see which is the best value.

That extra few % cost a lot of money!

 

[Alan White]

Thanks all, so the reality is as I thought.
Smaller and lighter with the t6 or marginal improvement with what I have and they all play together.
Somehow I think the t6 was a worthwhile distraction, but Pentax, Vixen APM etc will remain as stunning and already invested in.

I have to say if the XW was in a t6 size and eyerelief, wouldn't that be great.

 

[F15Rules]

I'd stick with the Pentax' Alan, you've been here before and as you said, regretted it..

The T6 13mm I had a few years back was a nice eyepiece, no doubt about it, but I personally like the heft of the Pentax, Morpheus and also my Nagler T2 12mm which is much bigger than the T6, and to my eyes just as good as the T6 13mm.

At this level, the performance differences IMO are very nuanced, and aesthetics, ergonomics and optical differences are very subjectively different for different people.

And for me, the larger EPs balance better on my 5" F8 apo👍😊

Dave

[JeremyS]

If you want to try the Apollo 11, @Alan White,there is one readily a available….at a price 

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/tele-vue-apollo-eyepieces.html

Edited July 16, 2022 by JeremyS

[Saganite]

You love the Pentax XW's  Al, so don't part with them again.  Of the range I now have only the 3.5mm left but that is only because I choose to use binoviewers wherever possible and pairs of XW's is impossible for me, sadly...

I still hanker for the 7mm and 10mm, but I don't need them.

[F15Rules]

6 hours ago, JeremyS said:

If you want to try the Apollo 11, @Alan White,there is one readily a available….at a price 

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/tele-vue-apollo-eyepieces.html

...or, buy brand new XWs in 3.5mm, 5mm, 7mm, and10mm AND a superb brand new Pentax 8-24 XL zoom AND get over £200 change from a similar investment! 😱😎👍😂

Dave

Edited July 16, 2022 by F15Rules

[Alan White]

I am sure the Apollo 11 is a most wonderful eyepiece, but it was clearly produced as a celebratory collectors piece over the Moon Landings and came with a Collector's price to match. 
As a user of eyepieces I would not buy such a thing, mainly because it’s outside my budget range, but I would not use one even if I did as it would be an investment.

Dont worry about the XW’s they are safe come what may, the t6 was a side show, but I was curious to see what folks would say.

The t6 Naglers are an amazing bit of design in such a minimalist package, most surprised it was and is so popular in its design home as the US likes to go large. I can see Naglers and an TV 85 would be a wonderful pairing.

 

[HollyHound]

I did try the Naglers and they were very good indeed... but safe to say, since moving to XWs as my main eyepiece set, I've never looked back 👍

Admittedly, I do have one Nagler (22mm) still, which I found to be more usable than the Ethos 20mm, in the Dob 🤔

Edited July 16, 2022 by HollyHound