Good book for DSOs?

[Kon]

I am looking to purchase a good book for DSOs similar to 'Turn Left at Orion', with charts and sketches. (I have an 8" Dob if that matters). I came across the 'Interstellarum Deep Sky Guide Desk Edition' and I have seen some nice reviews on it (I already have the 'interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas'). I am mostly interested in nebulas but of course other DSOs are of interest. Is that the best book for my needs or do you recommend others (I am very kin on sketches rather than astrophotography images, so I know my expectations)?  Or feedback on the Interstellarum Deep Sky Guide Desk Edition from personal experience?

Kostas

[Dave scutt]

Hi kon.

I got this book before buying turn left at Orion it has helped me find alot of dso's with my dob hope it helps.

Dave

[estwing]

Hidden treasures or the secret deep 

[Pixies]

this book is my "TLAO plus":

 

an example of its content:

500 pages - it's all Northern hemisphere, though

[Kon]

1 hour ago, Pixies said:

500 pages - it's all Northern hemisphere, though

Looks great thanks, and N hemisphere will do for now; a move down south is not currently in my books despite the horrible weather we are having 😆

[mikeDnight]

Anything by Stephen James Omeara could be good, as he often includes sketches made at the eyepiece. Another old one, which you may be able to obtain second hand, is The Messier Album by Mallas and Kramer. John Mallas made complementary sketches using his 4" F15 Unitron refractor to Kramers 12" reflector photographs, and the book is still valuable despite being decades old. 

Do you sketch Kostas? It may be that you could compile your own personal sketch book of deep sky objects as seen through your own scope, which could be far better than much of what's out there. Some of Mallas' sketches bare little resemblance to the views as seen through modern eyepieces, while Omeara's sketches, though relatable, often include unrealistic linear markings not seen in reality.

[Gfamily]

Another vote for IGAW - as has been said, it's the next step up from TLAO.

An old 'classic' is the 3 book series "Burnham's Celestial Handbook"; though like many classics, it's not necessarily up to date. 

As with many of these books, they are available in preview mode on google books, so you can see how detail is presented

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Burnham_s_Celestial_Handbook_Volume_One/z3_CAgAAQBAJ?gbpv=1

 

[ollypenrice]

If you want to go all the way, these are the volumes you need:

https://www.amazon.com/Night-Sky-Observers-Guide-Vol/dp/0943396581

https://www.amazon.com/Observers-Kepple-George-Robert-Hardcover/dp/B010WF4B34

However, they cover many objects which require a large aperture at a very dark site so they may be overkill. Wonderful books, though, and well bound, which is important.

Olly

[Kon]

10 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

Do you sketch Kostas? It may be that you could compile your own personal sketch book of deep sky objects as seen through your own scope, which could be far better than much of what's out there. Some of Mallas' sketches bare little resemblance to the views as seen through modern eyepieces, while Omeara's sketches, though relatable, often include unrealistic linear markings not seen in reality.

No I am not sketching, I am terrible at it, but having some representation of what things might look with the telescope is a bonus. Eg take a diffuse nebula, you look at the EP and what the APs are doing and they are different beasts. I have found a few websites that show sketches of Messier and they are v good representation of what I see, so I was hoping a book with other nebulas might have something similar.

 

10 hours ago, Gfamily said:

As with many of these books, they are available in preview mode on google books, so you can see how detail is presented

Very true, I will take a look on all the suggestions from here and see if google books have some of the titles.

[SuburbanMak]

I have Stephen James O’Meara’s Messier Objects book and it’s great - nicely written too. 
 

Also heartily recommend an eBook in the Patrick Moore’s Practical Astronomy series - Philip Pugh’s Observing the Messier Objects with a Small Telescope. 
This describes how to find and what you are likely to see in an 80mm refractor and 127 Mak.    
 

[mikeDnight]

12 hours ago, Kon said:

No I am not sketching, I am terrible at it, but having some representation of what things might look with the telescope is a bonus. Eg take a diffuse nebula, you look at the EP and what the APs are doing and they are different beasts. I have found a few websites that show sketches of Messier and they are v good representation of what I see, so I was hoping a book with other nebulas might have something similar.

 

Very true, I will take a look on all the suggestions from here and see if google books have some of the titles.

Here are a few of my own sketches which might inspire you to have a go at sketching. It really isnt as difficult as it might appear. You can sketch with a normal graphite pencil, take an image of the drawing, then convert it into negative on your tablet or computer. ☺

 

M27 Dumbbell nebula

M

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by mikeDnight

[jock1958]

Great sketches again @mikeDnight I now know why I’ve never seen M33....it’s just too faint for my ageing eyes! 
Im surprised your brilliant work hasn’t gone to print, I’d buy a copy 👍

 

 

[callisto]

On 25/11/2021 at 13:50, Kon said:

I am looking to purchase a good book for DSOs similar to 'Turn Left at Orion', with charts and sketches. (I have an 8" Dob if that matters). I came across the 'Interstellarum Deep Sky Guide Desk Edition' and I have seen some nice reviews on it (I already have the 'interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas'). I am mostly interested in nebulas but of course other DSOs are of interest. Is that the best book for my needs or do you recommend others (I am very kin on sketches rather than astrophotography images, so I know my expectations)?  Or feedback on the Interstellarum Deep Sky Guide Desk Edition from personal experience?

Kostas

I have the Deep sky guide spiral bound...fantastic book, amazing drawings...love it!

There is a one on Amazon uk for £34, nearly £30 off 

 

Mark.

[callisto]

7 minutes ago, callisto said:

I have the Deep sky guide spiral bound...fantastic book, amazing drawings...love it!

There is a one on Amazon uk for £34, nearly £30 off 

 

Mark.

Sorry, just seen it's in German 🙄

[Kon]

52 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

Here are a few of my own sketches which mightinspire you to have a go at sketching. It really isnt as difficult as it might appear. You can sketch with a normal graphite pencil, take an image of the drawing, then convert it into negative on your tablet or computer.

These are amazing! Thanks for sharing (I tried to have a go at M57 in the summer and it was all over the place especially with stars); you should post more often in the sketching section. (and I should maybe try again)

[Kon]

7 minutes ago, callisto said:

Sorry, just seen it's in German

Thanks anyways, it would have been a bargain for the price.

[callisto]

Just now, Kon said:

Thanks anyways, it would have been a bargain for the price.

No worries

[mikeDnight]

2 hours ago, Kon said:

These are amazing! Thanks for sharing (I tried to have a go at M57 in the summer and it was all over the place especially with stars); you should post more often in the sketching section. (and I should maybe try again)

Here's a sketch of M57 as observed through a 100mm apo just for you. ☺ It takes time to get properly dark adapted, but with carful observation and the use of averted vision its amazing how the detail comes into view.

Here's another nice object, M1 the Crab nebula, and again the finer detail flickers in and out of view when using averted vision. This sketch was made using a 128mm apo.

Below is the old classic that's worth searching for, The Messier Album and John Mallas with his beautiful 4" Unitron refractor.

Edited November 26, 2021 by mikeDnight

[John]

11 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

Here's a sketch of M57 as observed through a 100mm apo just for you. ☺ It takes time to get properly dark adapted, but with carful observation and the use of averted vision its amazing how the detail comes into view.

Here's another nice object, M1 the Crab nebula, and again the finer detail flickers in and out of view when using averted vision. This sketch was made using a 128mm apo.

Below is the old classic that's worth searching for, The Messier Album and John Mallas with his beautiful 4" Unitron refractor.

Great stuff as usual Mike 

I find it fascinating that you have sketched that magnitude 13.2 star next to the Ring Nebula. I have seen it with my 100mm / 102mm refractors as well and yet the limiting magnitude for the aperture is often given as 12.8-12.9.

Personally I think the scope performance calculators "understate" the capabilities of a quality refractor

 

[Kon]

@mikeDnightvery impressive!  Thanks! Yes visually I have no problem seeing things, but when I tried to put them on a sketch the stars were all over the place, relative location and spacing. I kept also killing my night vision with the red light I used. I will pm you at some point for some hints if that's alright.

[mikeDnight]

56 minutes ago, John said:

Great stuff as usual Mike 

I find it fascinating that you have sketched that magnitude 13.2 star next to the Ring Nebula. I have seen it with my 100mm / 102mm refractors as well and yet the limiting magnitude for the aperture is often given as 12.8-12.9.

Personally I think the scope performance calculators "understate" the capabilities of a quality refractor

 

Thanks John.

 Yes I agree they underestimate a scopes capabilities. I've often heard it said that a 6" is limited to mag 13, yet Leslie Peltier saw mag 14 in his 6" F8 achro, and that would have had uncoated optics. It would make an interesting experiment for observers to really push their scopes to see just where the true magnitude limit lies. I suppose under laboratory conditions dark adaption isn't a factor, or that if an electronic sensor of some sort is used, it lacks the necessary rodopsin.😁

[Voyager 3]

7 hours ago, John said:

Great stuff as usual Mike 

I find it fascinating that you have sketched that magnitude 13.2 star next to the Ring Nebula. I have seen it with my 100mm / 102mm refractors as well and yet the limiting magnitude for the aperture is often given as 12.8-12.9.

Personally I think the scope performance calculators "understate" the capabilities of a quality refractor

 

I beg to differ ..! People don't always include experience while calculating the limiting magnitude . From what I've heard and experienced , an experienced observer (like yourself and Mike) can go upto 1 magnitude deeper than a normal average vision observer . I'm mot at all surprised that you and Mike are able to pick up the 13.2 mag star ... 

[Epick Crom]

@mikeDnight awesome sketches there 👍

[niallk]

On 26/11/2021 at 16:33, mikeDnight said:

Here are a few of my own sketches which might inspire you to have a go at sketching. It really isnt as difficult as it might appear. You can sketch with a normal graphite pencil, take an image of the drawing, then convert it into negative on your tablet or computer. ☺

 

M27 Dumbbell nebula

M

 

Man - you've gotta get yourself a dob... 🤣🤣 (couldn't resist!)

Fabulous sketches 👌

[Captain Scarlet]

Visual Astronomy of the Deep Sky, if you can get hold of it, is superb, by Richard N Clark. He was one of the imaging scientists on the Cassini mission and has a website, clarkvision.com .

IIRC the first part of the book is essentially his PhD thesis on the abilities of the human eye and occupies perhaps 20% of the book. The rest is a catalogue of his detailed notes and sketches from his observations of a large range of DSOs. Mostly from his self-made 8" reflector in the 1980s. The beauty of it is you get a set of comments images and notes that do not appear in any website searches.

Quite hard to get hold of though.

Magnus

Addendum: I’ve just looked it up on Amazon. Christ!! Tempted to sell my copy! (not)

Edited December 2, 2021 by Captain Magenta
Deep not Night