A Scam or an error, somethings are best left well alone!

[Fozzie]

Afternoon Everybody,

it's a bit dreary and damp outside so i thought i'd share with you all a cautionary tale of on line shopping...  The outcome of which, I'm still not entirely sure what we'll end up with..

My tale of woe starts on Sunday morning, as usual i was up with the kids, trying to watch match of the day, whilst filtering out the persistent moaning because cartoons weren't on whilst they were having breakfast..  Sunday is my TV morning, and i only watch match of the day, so i wasn't for turning.  

During some of the boring analysis (i make them watch that out of spite really, even though I'm not overly bothered with that bit, I'll make the most out of my TV hour) I was browsing on line for a new scope, when following some links I ended up on Explore Sci triplets.

One site called "switch budget" appeared in the shopping section of the google search, now I've never heard of this site and clearly the price for a triplet at £393 is a total scam.  But i was intrigued to see how this was going to pan out... obviously you basket, buy, pay your money for your deal of the century, which wont ever turn up and within minutes your card is maxed out, with a holiday to St Lucia for 10 and several long distance calls to India..  However this wasn't the case...   you see "Switch Budget" is a comparison site, not offering to sell, infact it states it takes prices from retriable online venders and lists for you to see...  Oh so that's how they get you, click on the link, hooky web site for who ever sells the items, cheap price is their...  BANG,  you basket, buy, pay your money and your back to funding a holiday to St Lucia for 10 and several long distance calls to find a wife agency in Russia..  

Interestingly though, the scope that was offered under the comparison was an ES 165mm/1150 FPL53 with 3" feather touch triplet apo (circa £9k RRP) and it was showing for less than £400 pound, with a link to no other than amazon UK. 

Total SCAM, but the site wasn't offering to sell it, it was, for purposes offered for sale through amazon, even more so the page i was viewing had links to other products I'd recently browsed for the little lads birthday and returns policy etc..  really legit looking, as can be seen from the screen shot.  It even had the postcode of my work...  Hmmmm odd.

.

 

Anyway I'm still going with scam, so closed it down, had breakfast..   but it stuck with me.. 

A little while later, still slightly bemused at this I went direct to amazon on the phone, did a search and again found the item listed.  Sure that's not right, my phone been dupped in some way to bring me back to a hooky website, probably the most detailled website i've seen, as again the other items were items i'd looked at inbetween time.. this is really confusiong, it looks like Amazon, smells like amazon, has all the links... just like Amazon.

At this point I practically reset the phone thinking I'd been hacked..

However, totally engrossed in the saga unravelling in front of me I then checked, straight through Amazon on my laptop, and works phone and in all instances it was there, listed at just under £400, used but as new condition.  I even got the mother in law to check through hers... as at this stage either amazon has been hacked or there is some legitimacy to it being sold through amazon... Clerical Error?  someone's having a really bad day if it is!

the page clearly states it includes, optics, accessories, case etc..  and is word for word from the ES UK website..  The seller had 13k plus reviews at 92% and lists a whole host of optical stuff from microscopes to binoculars etc..  so they seem to check out.  Other items on offer also seem to be correctly priced, even the returns policy was in order.  I've bought less legitimate stuff through amazon than this..

Then the wife. the dear wife pops up with the DR Pepper moment "what is the worst that can happen?"  and she's supposed to be the sensible one..

So I basket it, I've got a 30day return policy, credit card protection and amazon returns protection..  and it's not costing £9,000 for delivery...  so i punched the buy button, followed the usual steps through amazon and got what looks like a bonified amazon order number, and it's listed in my pending orders, ready for dispatch.

Now comes the worry, Regular checks of the credit card, show a pending payment of £393 to amazon, not to anyone else, to amazon..  No Russian Brides or holidays to the marigot bay beech club in St Lucia, just a normal transaction..

Everything appears to be a normal amazon transaction, maybe someone's missed a "0" of the price..  I'll get an email notifying me of the error and that the item is not for sale..

Sunday comes and goes, Monday morning my little green bar racing towards dispatch keeps on it's merry way....  BUT...

Conscious is getting to me here, what if this is a genuine mistake, and someone's unwittingly just lost there job over a typo!  Im not in for that, that's not cricket in this age of COVID and the like..  So i seek a bit of council from a Mod on here about a few things..

The more i thought, the more issues this presented itself with..

Firstly, i cant use the scope, I haven't got a mount capable of holding it at all. it would wipe out my GP and Skytee at nearly 20K with accessories.  let alone what it would do to my back.

Secondly if i was purely getting it to sell on, which is more likely what sort of market is there, even if i offered it at £4k or something.. What if it's stolen or so far out of collimation that you can see round corners.. more hassle

Thirdly how do i sell it on...  not posting it..  last scope i bought i met someone in a dark carpark at 20:00 on a sunday night, ok for £50 but not thousands... Bank transfer, I can't do time for handling stolen goods..

Fourth, is it even legit, if it turns up.... get a bench test done or contact ES regarding the serial number, only to be informed the glass is made from plastic and it's a stolen display model.

So it's starting to become problematic actually doing anything with it..

Monday comes and go's at work, no dispatch note...  I'm holding my nerve as most n the office seem to think is a good idea..  Then whether coincidence or not i get a txt on my works phone, my works phone is linked to amazon account FYI..

the txt reads "who is this", number's not in my phone or on any emails... I respond with the company name... " you called me numerous times"... no didn't..  a screen shot appears with my works number on it with a call less than 5 minutes ago. followed by another txt "YES YOU DID!"

So I apologised, said honestly it wasn't me, to block the number and I'll report it to IT in case my phones been cloned and long distance calls to India are in progress.  "OK NO PROBLEM" i get in response., capitals are so passive aggressive.  I finish by texting, "some here, have a nice evening"..

THEN IT HAPPENED the response which made me bottle it "DO TRY AND STAY SAFE"

I mean WTF...  is that just a general breezy "hey theres covid about stay safe" or in capitals as it was, out of the blue that sounds like a warning from Hell that impending doom is coming my way..

At this point i'm out..  i get home and tell the wife everything, even the expected phone calls to India and that if a Blond russian lady turns up at work, it's really got nothing to do with me..  

worryingly  after going through the selling options (see above) she didn't seem overly concerned about me taking a beating in a car park, left with no scope or money... I think she's probably swinging it, either he'll be fine and get the sale or I'll get the Life insurance so win win..

We agree, cancel the order, which is done immediately..  It is still showing in my orders, but it hasn't been dispatched and my accounts are still in credit so hopefully this will just turn out fine for the time being....

As quoted by a wise man - "if it's too good to be true, it usually is!"

Who knows whether this is a scam of some kind or mistake or something entirely different.. im still at a bit of a loss, and can only see what happens over the next few days.. either way

"what's the worst that can happen!"

take heed people...  be vigilant....   STAY SAFE

Ta

Fozzie

 

[PeterCPC]

Caveat emptor 🥴

[johninderby]

Came across another seller of used telescopes on Amazon a few weeks ago. Loads of “used like new” expensive scopes at a fraction of the normal price. Too good to be true so gave them a wide berth. A 150mm triplet FPL53 APO for 500 quid. I think not. 🤔

Edited October 6, 2020 by johninderby

[Alan White]

I can see the temptation in a unreal bargain Fozzie, but I am not sure I would have bitten.
Your either crazier, braver or far more an Optimist than myself, probably all 3!

 

[Fozzie]

1 hour ago, Alan White said:

I can see the temptation in a unreal bargain Fozzie, but I am not sure I would have bitten.
Your either crazier, braver or far more an Optimist than myself, probably all 3!

 

He who dares Rodney, He who dare's...

It was only the fact this was through Amazon that i did take the gamble... knowing i 30 days to return if it wasn't sold as seen in that sense, i i had some credit card protection for purchases...  Still struggling to see the scam in that sense, to it's fullest! 

I've not had a cancellation email yet, but no dispatch notification either!

My main grip is now I've tied up £400, I don't have that spare until this drama is over...  and typically @omo is selling the scope I was thinking about buying.. I've even got a way of getting to Leeds with out courier, as a work colleague lives in dundee.. simple drop of job...

What's the luck in that!  Another Vixen ED gone to another home!

[Fozzie]

2 hours ago, johninderby said:

A 150mm triplet FPL53 APO for 500 quid. I think not. 🤔

Oh i know, but still.......   

wouldn't have minded a look through it though...

[johninderby]

9 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

Oh i know, but still.......   

wouldn't have minded a look through it though...

Maybe the glass is an extra cost option? 🤔😁😁😁

Edited October 6, 2020 by johninderby

[Shimrod]

2 hours ago, Fozzie said:

Oh i know, but still.......   

wouldn't have minded a look through it though...

Always worth checking the buyer profile - the details on this page scream Scam!   amazon - edexpressworld profile

A little more digging (the same seller is on ebay) suggests the amazon account has been hacked - edexpressworld would normally sell candles and incense, but appears dormant.

[Fozzie]

54 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

Always worth checking the buyer profile - the details on this page scream Scam!   amazon - edexpressworld profile

A little more digging (the same seller is on ebay) suggests the amazon account has been hacked - edexpressworld would normally sell candles and incense, but appears dormant.

Candles!!! Good grief the wife's well capable of spending A similar amount on them..

[Fozzie]

I've spoken with Amazon and they have raised the cancellation, and registered the item as a possible fraud/scam.. if this does go through, have an avenue of claiming the money back, but need to wait until the delivery window is finished, so the 10th... I could cancel the card.. but for bow just keep an eye.. if they had my details, it would be maxed by now no doubt.. so payment is via Amazon, not direct with the third party.. 

Could be a close call..

[Robindonne]

Last year i also found some astro related stuff on amazon.   It was definitely a scam.  A skywatcher eq6r for €395,-, new from a german store.   It was visible on amazon for a couple of days.   Never buy these offers please.  I used google to find out Amazon is not 100% safe.   They’ll delete it in the end but they cannot guarantee these sort of cowboys keep popping up with to good to be true items.   
 

In Holland we have had some of these cases recently. Items wrong priced by accident, and according to a law, the seller has the option to cancel, even if you already paid for it.  If its paid and delivered, then you can keep it (grey area).   
 

Internet is a copy of the real world. Always be careful and avoid being tricked.  

[Shimrod]

52 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

I've spoken with Amazon and they have raised the cancellation, and registered the item as a possible fraud/scam.. if this does go through, have an avenue of claiming the money back, but need to wait until the delivery window is finished, so the 10th... I could cancel the card.. but for bow just keep an eye.. if they had my details, it would be maxed by now no doubt.. so payment is via Amazon, not direct with the third party.. 

Could be a close call..

What is probably more of a concern is that the scammer will now have your email address (and contact details as it was despatch by vendor). You might expect an increase in spam and such like in the near future depending on how sophisticated a scammer this is.

[RobertI]

Thanks for sharing your experience Fozzie, an engrossing tale, which hopefully will have a happy ending, and which we can all learn from. 

[Scooot]

https://milestomemories.com/amazon-low-price-possible-scam/
 

This might be how the scam works.

[Fozzie]

10 hours ago, Shimrod said:

What is probably more of a concern is that the scammer will now have your email address (and contact details as it was despatch by vendor). You might expect an increase in spam and such like in the near future depending on how sophisticated a scammer this is.

thought about this, but the email address linked to my account, is old and no longer in use with a diversion in place to my current one..  it's tied up in a list of expired domains through work so shouldn't cause too much issue, and our fire wall at work stops literally everything, even legitimate enquiries which can be frustrating..  THey know my work address, but that's publicly available too...  hopefully limited impact, other than to our IT crowd.

[Fozzie]

8 hours ago, Scooot said:

https://milestomemories.com/amazon-low-price-possible-scam/
 

This might be how the scam works.

I spoke with Amazon last night, and this is about 99% accurate, apart from the delivery time which was 3 days not 3 weeks, that confused them because, as the article states its well before the payment would due to be made by them for goods received. 

either way they have confirmed i'm protected by A-Z conditions/insurance, and they have raised a cancellation directly with the seller, with a note on the system preventing charging of the account, so i appear to be safe..  however to close out i still need to raise the non delivery/cancellation after the allowed delivery variance on the product, + 3 days, so the 10th October..

just need to wait for the clouds to blow over...  interesting, because I generally trust Amazon 100% to filter this sort of tomfoolery out, because it impacts reputation and this scam targets them directly, in the sense that the buyer has protection in a number of ways, so shouldn't ultimately end up out of pocket.

 

[Fozzie]

16 hours ago, Alan White said:

Your either crazier, braver or far more an Optimist than myself, probably all 3!
 

put that side of me back in the box.... for now!

[bingevader]

Just as a little aside, I've always wondered if anyone has tried to hold Explore Scientific to some of the prices they quote on their website.

There are always misplaces decimal points all over the place!

At the moment in the New Offers section, there're deep sky astro cameras for 1 and 2 Euros.

[Fozzie]

On 07/10/2020 at 18:09, bingevader said:

Just as a little aside, I've always wondered if anyone has tried to hold Explore Scientific to some of the prices they quote on their website.

There are always misplaces decimal points all over the place!

At the moment in the New Offers section, there're deep sky astro cameras for 1 and 2 Euros.

so it's true you never know with ES....  

So to update this, I spoke with Amazon on the 10th as suggested, and raised the A/Z insurance protection they had told me to once the delivery slot expired..  bearing in mind this was all done through the mobile app on live chat, it was really easy and simple.. and they even resisted the temptation for the "STUPID BOY!" comments when reviewing the order..

All was in order, but my card would be charged, however it would be refunded within 5days, sure enough sometime Saturday evening the charge showed up on the card.

While I wasn't alarmed, it did cross my mind that maybe i hadn't actually been speaking with amazon and this was how the scam works..  Who knows, but i thought I'll start to panic after 5 days..

Not to fear though, my card received it's credit back from Amazon this morning..   Fair play, I've found them really quite easy and professional to deal with..

The curious case of the £393 165mm FPL53 F7 with feather touch 3" focuser closed!

Ta

Fozzie

 

 

[johninderby]

Sort of Russian Roulette astro style. 😁😁😁

[Fozzie]

1 hour ago, johninderby said:

Sort of Russian Roulette astro style. 😁😁😁

there was a certain excitement about the "what if...." element..

glad it's all done and dusted now.. I can concentrate on buying reputable astro purchases from reputable suppliers... if I ever make my mind up on what I actually want!