Morpheus or APM

[Charlie 2436]

Hi Alan

Didn’t you fancy the 100 degree eyepieces ?. I will probably go with the 9mm Morpheus ,it seems to be well thought of .

Thanks Robert 

PS Charlie was my nickname when I was in the Royal Engineers.

[Don Pensack]

On 19/09/2020 at 01:22, Alan White said:

@Don Pensack, why not the APM 12.5 like you have done??

No reason.  He was just discussing the Morpheus, that's all.

[Don Pensack]

Oh, and there are no 100-120° eyepieces from any company that are compatible with glasses.

The closest you can get are the 92° Explore Scientifics in 17mm and 12mm.

and there are not many more 82° eyepieces that are glasses compatible, either:

12.5mm Docter/Noblex (84°)

12.5,, APM Hi-FW (84°)

11mm TeleVue Apollo (85°)

TeleVue 31mm Nagler (82°)

Explore Scientific 30mm 82° 

Orion UHD eyepieces (80°)

and a few real cheapos.

[globular]

10 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

Oh, and there are no 100-120° eyepieces from any company that are compatible with glasses.

The closest you can get are the 92° Explore Scientifics in 17mm and 12mm.

and there are not many more 82° eyepieces that are glasses compatible, either:

12.5mm Docter/Noblex (84°)

12.5,, APM Hi-FW (84°)

11mm TeleVue Apollo (85°)

TeleVue 31mm Nagler (82°)

Explore Scientific 30mm 82° 

Orion UHD eyepieces (80°)

and a few real cheapos.

Does the 22mm Nagler make this list too? It’s on my short list, with the ES 92s, for a glasses friendly fairly wide set.
On paper it has 19mm eye relief like the 31. In actual use does it not work well with glasses?

Edited September 24, 2020 by globular

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, globular said:

Does the 22mm Nagler make this list too? It’s on my short list, with the ES 92s, for a glasses friendly fairly wide set.
On paper it has 19mm eye relief like the 31. In actual use does it not work well with glasses?

It does work fine with glasses in my experience.  I think it just slipped Don's mind.  He uses one with glasses, so that's about as much proof as I need.  I found the 17mm and 12mm NT4s to also work with eyeglasses, but they had such finicky exit pupils once the field stop popped into view that they were too tiring to use, so I replaced them with the ES-92s.

[Don Pensack]

2 hours ago, Louis D said:

It does work fine with glasses in my experience.  I think it just slipped Don's mind.  He uses one with glasses, so that's about as much proof as I need.  I found the 17mm and 12mm NT4s to also work with eyeglasses, but they had such finicky exit pupils once the field stop popped into view that they were too tiring to use, so I replaced them with the ES-92s.

Thanks, Louis, yes it just slipped my mind.  I do use it with glasses, and it works fine that way.  I just wish I didn't have presbyopia and need a different prescription for reading my notes and DSC.

I use bifocals, and they made the bottoms as small as they could but on these eyepieces with large lenses, the bifocal section is in view and if I look down at the bottom of the field, it's out of focus due to the small bifocal section.

One of the perils of age, I'm afraid.

[Don Pensack]

7 hours ago, globular said:

Does the 22mm Nagler make this list too? It’s on my short list, with the ES 92s, for a glasses friendly fairly wide set.
On paper it has 19mm eye relief like the 31. In actual use does it not work well with glasses?

It works fine for me with glasses, but a few people with eyes even more deep-set than mine (or with thicker glasses) report that the 22mm, like the 31mm, is "marginal".

Personal physiology probably means the "cusp" of glasses use is somewhere between 17 and 22mm of eye relief.

[Alan White]

2 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

Thanks, Louis, yes it just slipped my mind.  I do use it with glasses, and it works fine that way.  I just wish I didn't have presbyopia and need a different prescription for reading my notes and DSC.

I use bifocals, and they made the bottoms as small as they could but on these eyepieces with large lenses, the bifocal section is in view and if I look down at the bottom of the field, it's out of focus due to the small bifocal section.

One of the perils of age, I'm afraid.

Sounds familiar on the glasses front Don, except I have Vari-focals and they are not Astro friendly.
So Single vision for at EP and readers for the charts and soon to arrive DSC as well.
Age, its a great curse to live with (preferable to any other options available in my book).

[Don Pensack]

Yeah.  I hear you.

If not at the scope, I use progressives and I like them a lot, but they do not work at the scope.

I thought about single vision glasses with readers hung around my neck, but it is always cold at the altitude I observe, so I am always wearing a hood.

I use the glasses over the hood, held in place by a tightenable lanyard behind my head (otherwise, they'd fall right off), so changing glasses back and forth

would not be practical.  Fortunately, I can just let the glasses hang when using a 10mm eyepiece or shorter, but then I have to put the glasses back on to read my notes

and DSC.

I think I may be in a transition phase to all glasses-friendly eyepieces at all focal lengths for convenience.

[globular]

4 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

I think I may be in a transition phase to all glasses-friendly eyepieces at all focal lengths for convenience.

I'm trying to get glasses friendly EPs at all focal lengths too. 
Can I be cheeky and ask you to cast your eye over the them in my thread?
https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/362724-perfect-set/
(Very cheeky but I'm lovely with it 😇).

[JOC]

I wear glasses, I use Morpheus, I don't find any issues fwiw.

[Barry-W-Fenner]

On 21/09/2020 at 00:02, Charlie 2436 said:

Hi Alan

Didn’t you fancy the 100 degree eyepieces ?. I will probably go with the 9mm Morpheus ,it seems to be well thought of .

Thanks Robert 

PS Charlie was my nickname when I was in the Royal Engineers.

Hi Robert,

I purchased a 9mm Morpheus about a month ago. For what its worth it is my favourite eye piece. It gives a nice medium power, has a great FOV, comfortable to use and most importantly gives lovely contrasty & colourful view.  I rate it very highly.

Baz

[F15Rules]

Robert,

Did you source a Barlow yet?

If not, I can really recommend the Baader Hyperion zoom 2.25x unit as being excellent. It works well with my Morpheus (and other EPs), and in a 9mm Morph would offer a very useful 4mm high power option for those all too rare UK very good nights.

Dave

[JeremyS]

34 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

Did you source a Barlow yet?

Something like this, Dave?

[johninderby]

Or more appropriately. 😁

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/physics-astronomy/people/professor-michael-barlow

[Charlie 2436]

Hi Baz . I have been looking to see if I could get something with a bit wider FOV with good eye relief, but with not a lot of success so I am going to get the 9mm Morpheus. As yourself and a lot of other people rate it very highly.

thanks Robert 

Hi Dave . No I am still unsure as to which Barlow to go for, I was maybe going to go for the Explore Scientific or Altair Astro 2x Barlow. I hadn’t even considered the Hyperion Barlow, I thought that the baader Hyperion zoom Barlow only worked with the zoom lens. But you say you can also use it with your Morpheus eyepieces, can you use it with any 1:25” eyepiece.

thanks Robert 

[Don Pensack]

On 24/09/2020 at 09:51, globular said:

I'm trying to get glasses friendly EPs at all focal lengths too. 
Can I be cheeky and ask you to cast your eye over the them in my thread?
https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/362724-perfect-set/
(Very cheeky but I'm lovely with it 😇).

Some obvious candidates for glasses use:

Baader Hyperion 5-24mm (OK for longer focal ratios), but not the 31mm or 36mm (you can do better).

*Baader Morpheus 4.5-17.5mm

*Explore Scientific 92° series 12,17mm

Explore Scientific 82° 30mm

Explore Scientific 68° 40,34mm

Explore Scientific 62° 40,32,26mm

Explore Scientific 52° 40,30mm

*TeleVue Delite 3-18.2mm

*TeleVue Delos 3.5-17.3mm

*TeleVue Apollo 11

*TeleVue Nagler 31, 22

TeleVue Panoptic 41,35,*27mm

*Pentax XW 3.5-40mm

*APM/Altair/Orion UFF 30mm, 24mm, 18mm

Orion LHD 4-20mm

Vixen SLV 50° 2.5-25mm

I've put stars by my favorites in the group.  I haven't used the Orion LHDs

 

 

[Barry-W-Fenner]

2 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

Baader Morpheus 4.5-17.5mm

Sorry to sound like a lemon Don. But do you mean you rate the 4.5 and 17.5mm morphs or the whole range, 4.5 through to17.5?

Cheers

[Louis D]

To Don's list, I would add

Meade 5000 HD-60 4.5-25mm : discontinued, but still some new-old-stock out there and lots of used, very good at 6.5mm and 9mm in particular with the 25mm a strong contender

BST Starguider 25mm : Only one of the line usable with eyeglasses, but still not that well corrected

Pentax XF 8.5-12mm : Field curvature can be bothersome for some

Astro Tech AF70, also known as the Celestron Ultima LX, Olivon 70, Omegon Redline SW, Skywatcher SWA-70, etc.) 3.5mm to 22mm : VG at 22mm getting worse at shorter focal lengths

Pentax XL 5.2-40mm :  long since discontinued in favor of the XWs, but still pop up second-hand and still very worthy

Meade 4000 UWA smoothie 14mm :  An old favorite from the late 80s/early 90s

Wide Scan III 80° 30mm clones : Surprisingly good in slower scopes at the edges, super sharp inner 40° in most scopes

Meade MWA 26mm : Can get 78° with eyeglasses, but there's a lot of SAEP to deal with

Baader Scopos Extreme/Orion Stratus 35mm : Baader recently sold out of NOS (I think I got the last one), but comes up used once in a while.  Well corrected, great eye relief, super heavy.

Meade 5000 Plossl 40mm : Most likely same optics as ES-62 40mm, but much cheaper on the secondary market.  Super sharp in the inner 50% of the field.

Vixen LV, NLV, and LVW : All discontinued, but all fine performers, and all show up regularly on the secondary market

Celestron Regal 8-24mm Zoom : Hard to find, also sold with some Olivon spotting scopes (has a rubber grip instead of metal ribbing).  Easily usable with eyeglasses once the twist-up eye cup is screwed all the way off (just keep twisting the cup down).

Edited September 25, 2020 by Louis D

[Don Pensack]

21 hours ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

Sorry to sound like a lemon Don. But do you mean you rate the 4.5 and 17.5mm morphs or the whole range, 4.5 through to17.5?

Cheers

I should have said "all", or 4.5mm through 17.5mm.  The 4.5mm and 6.5mm are "tight" with glasses on, but the other focal lengths are easy.

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

I should have said "all", or 4.5mm through 17.5mm.  The 4.5mm and 6.5mm are "tight" with glasses on, but the other focal lengths are easy.

Curious that the same thing happens to the 4.5mm and 6.5mm Meade HD-60s.  They are a few millimeters tighter on eye relief than the 9mm and above, but still usable with eyeglasses.  The shorter FL Pentax XLs and XWs don't do this. 
@Don PensackWhat about the shorter FL Delos and Delites?  I've only got the 10mm Delos, so no experience there.

[Don Pensack]

No difference.  I was using the 3mm Delite comfortably the other night.

[TheLookingGlass]

On 25/09/2020 at 13:35, Don Pensack said:

Some obvious candidates for glasses use:

Baader Hyperion 5-24mm (OK for longer focal ratios), but not the 31mm or 36mm (you can do better).

*Baader Morpheus 4.5-17.5mm

*Explore Scientific 92° series 12,17mm

Explore Scientific 82° 30mm <------

Explore Scientific 68° 40,34mm

Explore Scientific 62° 40,32,26mm

Explore Scientific 52° 40,30mm

*TeleVue Delite 3-18.2mm

*TeleVue Delos 3.5-17.3mm

*TeleVue Apollo 11

*TeleVue Nagler 31, 22

TeleVue Panoptic 41,35,*27mm

*Pentax XW 3.5-40mm

*APM/Altair/Orion UFF 30mm, 24mm, 18mm

Orion LHD 4-20mm

Vixen SLV 50° 2.5-25mm

I've put stars by my favorites in the group.  I haven't used the Orion LHDs

 

 

Explore Scientific 82° 30mm  eye lens is recessed too much for use with glasses.

Edited October 3, 2020 by TheLookingGlass

[globular]

10 minutes ago, TheLookingGlass said:

Explore Scientific 82° 30mm  eye lens is recessed too much for use with glasses.

Thanks TheLookingGlass.

ES report eye relief of 22mm and I've heard it's recessed a couple of mm?  So doesn't that still leave 19 or 20mm usable?

I know it's not just the relief mm that determined suitability with glasses... eyecup design and placement etc important too... and everyone mileage may vary....

I guess if there are differing opinions then it goes in the marginal box?

[Don Pensack]

I didn't find it marginal,  Like the 31mm Nagler, I found it usable with glasses.

Did I press the lens of my glasses against the rubber?  Yeah, just like I do with nearly every eyepiece that is glasses-compatible.

I don't think any eyepiece with 20mm of eye relief has a true 20mm of effective eye relief from the rubber eyecup (folded down) up.

I think you have to have 23-24mm of eye relief to get a true 20mm effective eye relief.

The 17.5mm Morpheus has 24mm of eye relief, and that's just about the only eyepiece I've tried where, with glasses on, I can actually get close enough to see blackouts (!)