Morpheus or APM

[Charlie 2436]

Hi All.

 I am looking for a bit of advice again 😊.  I have decided to get two decent eyepieces and the hyperflex zoom just now and get the in between ones overtime. I am going for the Altair Astro 30mm Ultra-Flat which I believe  is the same as the APM 30mm Ultra-Flat for wide field. My problem is which other one to go for , either the Morpheus 17.5mm , 12.5mm or 9mm ,or the APM 12mm HI-FW . Giving me 51x -  72x - 100x  magnification . I have not had a chance to use my telescope much since I got it, so I am not sure which one would be the most useful. I have a Altair Astro 152mm V3 achro refractor f5.9.

Thanks Robert 

[Barry-W-Fenner]

Hi Robert.

I dont have any experience with the APM range but have heard very good things about them and would quite like to try one at some point.

I have recently acquired the Morpheus 9mm to use in my 200 & 300p so far it has given the best views I have had of Mars and the moon at x167 mag. Mars was a beautiful copper colour with a grey band going through the disk, the white polar caps were also visible against the copper colour.  The detail was fantastic. Using the Morpheus is very comfortable having the nice wide 37mm lense and around 20mm of ER. I can see the 9mm being my work horse going forward. I am very impressed with it. The 6.5mm also give great views conditions permitting.

I think you will be on to a winner with either of the Morph or APM. Hopefully some more experienced individuals will be along soon to advice.

👍

 

[Jiggy 67]

I have the full Morpheus range after using the savings from lockdown to purchase them over several months. Due to appalling amounts of cloud since purchasing them I’ve not been able to try them out much but I have tried the 17.5mm and found it to be excellent in my F5 newt. Crisp and sharp with no noticeable aberrations. I found that I had to increase the eye relief by using the spacer ring supplied and after that it was really comfortable. I have briefly gone down through the range, splitting a couple of double stars and was very satisfied with minimal refocusing required between focal lengths. Jupiter through the 4.5mm was outstanding with all 4 Galileon moons still visible, although at the very edge of the FOV. One thing I do like is they appear to provide a lot of contrast. I recommend the Morpheus though I’m no expert, but I cannot see me buying any replacements any time soon and that includes Televue 😀👍

Edited September 7, 2020 by Jiggy 67

[Charlie 2436]

Thanks for your advice Barry and Jiggy . The Morpheus seems like a good bet ,I wear glasses and eye relief is an issue .

I am unsure which focal length I would get the most use out of ? . I was hoping some of the frac guys might be able to give me some advice of what they’re most used eyepiece is .

Thanks Robert 

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, Charlie 2436 said:

I am going for the Altair Astro 30mm Ultra-Flat which I believe  is the same as the APM 30mm Ultra-Flat for wide field.

Optically the same, but with a stainless steel barrel making it heavier than the APM version.

3 hours ago, Charlie 2436 said:

My problem is which other one to go for , either the Morpheus 17.5mm , 12.5mm or 9mm ,or the APM 12mm HI-FW .

I would lean toward the 12.5mm.  I've found I like observing around 75x quite a lot with the aperture you're using because it yields a near optimal 2mm exit pupil.

As for Morpheus vs. APM, I'd probably lean toward the Morpheus since from what I've read, it has more comfortable eye relief for eyeglass wearers and slightly better edge correction.  The APM seems to excel at central contrast and resolution like the 12.5mm Docter/Noblex it tries to emulate.

[Don Pensack]

the ratio from 30 to 17.5mm is roughly 1.7:1

If you maintain that ratio going forward, the next focal lengths are 10mm, 6mm, 3.5mm.

That yields some pretty big jumps at high powers, and seeing may not allow it.

So some in-between magnifications might be useful, like 4.7mm and 8mm and maybe 14mm

A complete set would then be 30...17.5...14...10...8...6...4.7...3.5

Combine the 10 and 8mm into a 9mm.  Because that's higher than 8mm, make the 6mm a 6.5mm.  Combine the 3.5 and 4.7mm nto a 4.5mm.

Now you have a set of 30mm, 17.5mm, 14mm, 9mm, 6.5mm, 4.5mm.

The last 5 could all be Morpheus eyepieces.  And they would go very well with the 30mm APM/Altair. Ultra Flat (which is a fine eyepiece).

Magnification-wise, though, the 12.5mm Morpheus is closer to the in-between magnification from the 9 and 17.5, so I'd go 12.5mm Morpheus instead of 14mm.

 

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, Don Pensack said:

Magnification-wise, though, the 12.5mm Morpheus is closer to the in-between magnification from the 9 and 17.5, so I'd go 12.5mm Morpheus instead of 14mm.

Agreed.  My 14mm Morpheus gets little use because it is just too close to both the 17mm and 12mm ES-92s I use.  I then jump to either my 10mm Delos or 9mm Morpheus.  I kind of want to get an 8mm Delos to bridge to the 7mm Pentax XW I have.

[Charlie 2436]

Thanks for the advice Don and Louis D it’s much appreciated. That sounds like a plan for a complete set. The only snag is I quite liked the thought of the 84 degree afov and 23mm eye relief of the APM 12.5 Hi Wf so I ordered it this afternoon, hope I haven’t made a mistake ? The other sizes I think the Morpheus will do nicely.

One last thing do you think it would be worth getting a 3mm giving 300x on a good night or would it just be a waste and never get used. Or should I just barlow the 9mm or 6.5mm.

[Louis D]

2 minutes ago, Charlie 2436 said:

One last thing do you think it would be worth getting a 3mm giving 300x on a good night or would it just be a waste and never get used. Or should I just barlow the 9mm or 6.5mm.

If you use a very high quality Barlow, the combination would probably work very well.  You do end up with a long lever arm sticking out of the diagonal which can complicate balance at high altitudes.

[Charlie 2436]

Thanks Louis D for the advice, what would you say was a high quality barlow ?

[Louis D]

That's a tough one because I prefer affordable mid-length Barlows like the TV 2x and Meade 140 (both 90s vintage) that won't come to focus in many refractors.  I recently picked up a 3 element Japanese made shorty Barlow (Celestron Ultima, Parks Gold, etc), but I haven't had any time to try it out yet.  You could get a used Meade 140 for $50 or less and screw the optics section onto the front of a 1.25" diagonal for about 3x.  I use it at a similar power on my binoviewers to reach focus, and the images are incredibly sharp.

There are plenty of quality shorty barlows, but they aren't cheap.  Start with this list to see what I mean:

1.6x 1.25" Nikon EIC Barlow

3.0x 1.25" Televue Barlow

2.4x 2.0" Vernonscope Dakin Barlow

2.0x 2.0" AP BARCON (BARADV) Barlow

2.5x 2.0" Siebert Telecentric

2.0x 1.25" Carl Zeiss Abbe Barlow

2.0x 1.25" & 2" Baader VIP Barlow

2.25x Baader Hyperion Zoom Barlow

[Charlie 2436]

Thanks Louis D I will look into them, no pun intended . I just wish the postman would hurry up with the APM 12.5mm.

[jetstream]

23 minutes ago, Charlie 2436 said:

I just wish the postman would hurry up with the APM 12.5mm

Nice choice, from what I've seen this design should be capable of very sharp, contrasted views- eagerly waiting reports!

[Louis D]

Definitely would like to hear your impressions of the APM 12.5mm.  I've got the 12mm Nagler T4 and ES-92 and have thought about picking up the APM sometime to replace the NT4 for 1.25" usage.  Eye relief is a bit tight on the NT4 and the exit pupil is a bit on the finicky side once the field stop pops into view.  I also noticed EOFB (Edge of Field Brightening) extending all the way to center once in the 12mm NT4.  I swapped it for the 17mm NT4 which had about 50% of the amount of EFOB and practically none for the two ES-92s under the same conditions.  It looked like someone had placed a graduated vignette filter over the image, only in reverse such that the image got gradually brighter center to edge.  I haven't seen it since, but it was startling and completely repeatable during eyepiece swaps that night.

[Don Pensack]

5 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Definitely would like to hear your impressions of the APM 12.5mm.  I've got the 12mm Nagler T4 and ES-92 and have thought about picking up the APM sometime to replace the NT4 for 1.25" usage.  Eye relief is a bit tight on the NT4 and the exit pupil is a bit on the finicky side once the field stop pops into view.  I also noticed EOFB (Edge of Field Brightening) extending all the way to center once in the 12mm NT4.  I swapped it for the 17mm NT4 which had about 50% of the amount of EFOB and practically none for the two ES-92s under the same conditions.  It looked like someone had placed a graduated vignette filter over the image, only in reverse such that the image got gradually brighter center to edge.  I haven't seen it since, but it was startling and completely repeatable during eyepiece swaps that night.

I sometimes think that is due to the atmosphere.  It has been reported on CN that the 12.5mm Hi-FW APM eyepiece has severe EOFB, yet I didn't notice it when I used it over a night and I used it a lot.

On another night, I did see it in that eyepiece, but on that night I also saw it in the 17.5mm and 14mm Morpheus and the 11mm TeleVue Apollo.  So that night was damp and there was a haze in the air.  Why those conditions brighten the edge and not the center may have to do with the nature of angular magnification distortion in the eyepiece but that is speculation and not certain.

Your description exactly matches the appearance of EOFB.  At various times, I have seen it in many eyepieces, including the 17mm T4 Nagler, the 12mm T4 Nagler and even the 13mm Ethos (though it was quite subtle in that eyepiece).

The "poster child" for EOFB is the 13mm Olivon 70° eyepiece (sold as many other labels, including the older Celestron Ultima LX).  If you don't notice it in that eyepiece, you need a "seeing-eye" dog.

I was going to spend a lot of time looking for it in the 12.5mm APM during the last new moon, but smoke from the fires here in California killed any chance for observing that week (and it's worse, now).

 

[Louis D]

22 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

The "poster child" for EOFB is the 13mm Olivon 70° eyepiece (sold as many other labels, including the older Celestron Ultima LX).  If you don't notice it in that eyepiece, you need a "seeing-eye" dog.

I do have the 13mm AF70 (should be same optically as Olivon 70°), so I'll have to dust it off and go looking for EOFB sometime.  It also has pronounced edge of field chromatic aberration starting at 70% out from center.  If you like rainbows, this is the eyepiece for you.

[Charlie 2436]

Hi guys. I don’t want to disappoint you I’m new to this and I don’t think I would know EOFB if it walked up and kicked me on  my shin bone 😳 hopefully I am wrong. 
Has anyone had any experience with the Altair Lightwave flat field Tele Extender Barlows 

[Louis D]

14 hours ago, Charlie 2436 said:

Hi guys. I don’t want to disappoint you I’m new to this and I don’t think I would know EOFB if it walked up and kicked me on  my shin bone 😳 hopefully I am wrong.

You probably wouldn't notice it if you didn't go looking for it or didn't do an eyepiece swap with another eyepiece that didn't have it.  It just looks like a fog covering the outer field decreasing contrast.

14 hours ago, Charlie 2436 said:

Has anyone had any experience with the Altair Lightwave flat field Tele Extender Barlows 

It appears to be very similar to the discontinued Meade Series 5000 TeleXtender 2x Barlow Lens (1.25").  10 years ago, there was this thread here on SGL about it.  I would google the Meade for other reviews and discussions of it.

Altair:

Meade:

[Alan White]

The 30mm APM UFF is a very fine eyepiece, I have one and use it in my 10" f4.8 Dobson.
In fact use did last night for most of my session.
It is a super eyepiece and I am picky on eyepieces, but need to wear glasses, so the field of choice narrows considerably.
 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Alan White
typos of course

[Charlie 2436]

Thanks Louis D for the info, if it is the same as the meade it should be quite good. I will probably go with that or the ES Tele  extender.

 Hi Alan if the 30mm APM UFF is as good as everyone is saying I’m in for a real treat 😁. I know what you mean about wearing glasses, I’ve been looking at eyepieces and thinking that will do nicely only to find that the eye relief is not enough for glasses wearers. 
I think that the pony express are riding donkeys to do deliveries at the moment as still no sign of my stuff 😁.

[Alan White]

On 10/09/2020 at 18:45, Charlie 2436 said:

 Hi Alan if the 30mm APM UFF is as good as everyone is saying I’m in for a real treat 😁. 

Many of us think it is.
I got it and have kept it in the 10" Dob for long periods some nights as I am enjoying it so much.
That may be newish EP eyes, but I have had many over the years and this truly stands out in a good way.

 

[Alan White]

On 08/09/2020 at 21:18, Don Pensack said:

Magnification-wise, though, the 12.5mm Morpheus is closer to the in-between magnification from the 9 and 17.5,
so I'd go 12.5mm Morpheus instead of 14mm.

@Don Pensack, why not the APM 12.5 like you have done??

[Alan White]

On 08/09/2020 at 23:49, Charlie 2436 said:

Thanks for the advice Don and Louis D it’s much appreciated. That sounds like a plan for a complete set. The only snag is I quite liked the thought of the 84 degree afov and 23mm eye relief of the APM 12.5 Hi Wf so I ordered it this afternoon, hope I haven’t made a mistake ? The other sizes I think the Morpheus will do nicely.

So how goes the 12.5mm @Charlie 2436?
I presume its arrived and had use now.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Alan White

[Charlie 2436]

Hi Allan I have had a chance to use my 12.5mm but only a brief one and in my 127 mak not the 6” refractor.

firstly I am new to astronomy so I don’t have a lot of experience to know what to look for.  The 12.5mm is well made quality eyepiece ( in my opinion ) , it’s bigger than I thought a lot heavier than any of my other eyepieces apart from the 30mm UFF I just got. The eye relief is good with the eye cups up or folded down ( I wear glasses ) the view was brilliant I could see a lot more than usual I could actually look around the view from edge to edge instead of just in the centre . Everything seemed fine right out to the edges no distortion or bloated stars etc, in my limited knowledge opinion. I can’t say much about contrast as I live in Glasgow and have really bad sky glow / light pollution but the views of Jupiter where the best I’ve had yet. 
In all I am really pleased with this eyepiece I don’t have much to compare it with a couple of bst’s and a couple of Plossl’s.

 I can’t wait to get my 6” refractor out and try the 30mm UFF and 12.5mm with it.

PS Allan do you have any experience with the APM 9mm 100 degree eyepiece I would like to get that next but eye relief is quoted at 13mm and I don’t think it would work for me.

 Thanks Robert 

[Alan White]

2 hours ago, Charlie 2436 said:

Hi Allan I have had a chance to use my 12.5mm but only a brief one and in my 127 mak not the 6” refractor.

PS Allan do you have any experience with the APM 9mm 100 degree eyepiece I would like to get that next but eye relief is quoted at 13mm and I don’t think it would work for me.

Hi Robert, not Charlie (confused or what?).

Glad you like the 12.5 and that its as well made as it looks, if the UFF is anything to go by (I own 2) then it will be stonking.

Sorry on the 100 degree EP, never owned one, sorry, I stopped at 80 degree area, and now back at 70 for most, which suits.
I too wear glasses observing now and the 12.5 is of interest.

I bet it will be great in the 6" Refractor.