Newbie aiming high

[igorigs]

Hi folks! 

I just got my first telescope SW 90/910 refractor on EQ2 which was really affordable. Wanted SW 130/900 at first but not a single shop in my country has it at this time.. 

 

Anyway wanted to ask what eyepiece would be the best to watch Saturn rings.. Aaand of course Jupiter. Got the usual 10mm, 25mm and 2x barlow. Also got AMICI PRISM 90° 31.7MM. Tried with barlow and 10mm, I can see rings but its more or less blurry (I did focus the telescope). Whenever I try to use Amici, can't see a thing with any combination of eyepieces. Also when looking at moon and I want to zoom it more with barlow and 10mm it gets realy blurry. 

 

Can it all be because of current hot temperatures? I live in Serbia btw.

Thanks in advance!

 

Best one so far with 10mm and mobile phone..

 

Forgot to mention want to use it primary for observing not astrophotography..

Edited July 31, 2020 by igorigs

[vlaiv]

Hi and welcome to SGL.

First of all, both stock barlow lens and 10mm eyepiece that come with that scope are not very good/sharp.

Second thing is that such combination is probably providing you with too much magnification for your scope. In theory, you should be fine with x180 but in practice only very sharp optics can do than and air / atmosphere needs to be steady. There is a lot of things that you can do to improve your views of the planets like:

1. Place your telescope on the grass surface and not concrete / pavement. Let it acclimatize to ambient temperature - leave it sitting for about hour or so.

2. Make sure you are not viewing over any houses or roads in summer. Concrete buildings and pavement absorb heat during the day and create thermals over night. It is like looking things over camp fire - everything shakes and image is blurry.

3. Be patient when observing planets - try to find best focus and wait for moment of good seeing when things become better.

4. Try to view with only 10mm and no barlow - less optical glass of dubious quality and less magnification. Things will be smaller but sharper and will have more contrast.

With more experience you will learn to distinguish between good and poor atmospheric conditions and you will know when is good time to observe planets.

[fozzybear]

Welcome to SGL and enjoy

As @vlaiv says follow what he posted he knows what he is talking about and enjoy.

and above all enjoy

Andy

 

[PeterCPC]

Hello and welcome.

Peter

[Mr Spock]

Hi, welcome to SGL

[Dave Lloyd]

Hi there, welcome. 

[igorigs]

8 hours ago, vlaiv said:

Hi and welcome to SGL.

First of all, both stock barlow lens and 10mm eyepiece that come with that scope are not very good/sharp.

Second thing is that such combination is probably providing you with too much magnification for your scope. In theory, you should be fine with x180 but in practice only very sharp optics can do than and air / atmosphere needs to be steady. There is a lot of things that you can do to improve your views of the planets like:

1. Place your telescope on the grass surface and not concrete / pavement. Let it acclimatize to ambient temperature - leave it sitting for about hour or so.

2. Make sure you are not viewing over any houses or roads in summer. Concrete buildings and pavement absorb heat during the day and create thermals over night. It is like looking things over camp fire - everything shakes and image is blurry.

3. Be patient when observing planets - try to find best focus and wait for moment of good seeing when things become better.

4. Try to view with only 10mm and no barlow - less optical glass of dubious quality and less magnification. Things will be smaller but sharper and will have more contrast.

With more experience you will learn to distinguish between good and poor atmospheric conditions and you will know when is good time to observe planets.

Thanks mate.

Could you recommend me an eyepiece?

Also what could I see with this telescope? 

 

[sloz1664]

Hi and a very warm welcome to the Lounge

Steve

[banjaxed]

Hi and welcome to SGL.

[laudropb]

Hello and a warm welcome to the SGL.

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Hi and welcome to the best Astro Forum there is.

I could not add to what vlaiv has already said - very good advice indeed 🙂 

Steve

[Brunty12345]

Welcome to SGL. Vlaiv pretty much hit the nail on the head, so take his comments to heart, and that knowledge will help you in the coming days/months/years.

[vlaiv]

1 hour ago, igorigs said:

Thanks mate.

Could you recommend me an eyepiece?

Also what could I see with this telescope? 

 

My first recommendation would be to take some time and learn how to observe / see with the kit that you already have.

This is important for two reasons. First point being - indeed one learns to see, as time goes by you will see more and more. Second point is that you need to see how interested in this hobby you'll be in a long run. Based on that, you can make decision to either invest more money or just use what you have for casual observing now and then.

Just changing your eyepiece set and diagonal for something a bit better will quickly reach the price of your scope. Good thing is that eyepieces and other bits stay with you even if you change the telescope (unless you choose to upgrade them also at some point) - so it is long term investment, and that is of course reasonable only if you are committed to this hobby.

Having said above, here is what I would recommend in terms of eyepieces and upgrades.

This is something that you don't need to think much about - get 32mm GSO Plossl. My only concern is that your current diagonal, if indeed Amici prism and not simple diagonal mirror will have issues with vignetting this eyepiece. This eyepiece will give you widest possible field in 1.25" format at a good price and with very decent performance. It is eyepiece worth having for wide fields and as finder eyepiece.

Easiest way to get one would be from here: http://www.teleskop.rs/teleskop/okulari/gso-ploessl-okulari

(don't be tempted by 40mm one - no much point in going for 40mm as it will have narrower field of view and in principle show you same amount of the sky as 32mm)

Second recommendation would be to change diagonal mirror for something better - both optically and mechanically:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p1771_TS-Optics-1-25--TS-Optics-1-25--Star-Diagonal-with-ring-clamb---99----1-12-Lambda.html

would be a good choice. I use it with my Maksutov 102 and is indeed very solid diagonal mirror.

In the end, eyepieces that I would recommend to get are these:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bst-starguider-eyepieces.html

for general eyepieces and this one in particular for high power views:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/explore-scientific-eyepieces/explore-scientific-62-series-ler-eyepieces.html

5.5mm one.

 

 

[igorigs]

15 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

My first recommendation would be to take some time and learn how to observe / see with the kit that you already have.

This is important for two reasons. First point being - indeed one learns to see, as time goes by you will see more and more. Second point is that you need to see how interested in this hobby you'll be in a long run. Based on that, you can make decision to either invest more money or just use what you have for casual observing now and then.

Just changing your eyepiece set and diagonal for something a bit better will quickly reach the price of your scope. Good thing is that eyepieces and other bits stay with you even if you change the telescope (unless you choose to upgrade them also at some point) - so it is long term investment, and that is of course reasonable only if you are committed to this hobby.

Having said above, here is what I would recommend in terms of eyepieces and upgrades.

This is something that you don't need to think much about - get 32mm GSO Plossl. My only concern is that your current diagonal, if indeed Amici prism and not simple diagonal mirror will have issues with vignetting this eyepiece. This eyepiece will give you widest possible field in 1.25" format at a good price and with very decent performance. It is eyepiece worth having for wide fields and as finder eyepiece.

Easiest way to get one would be from here: http://www.teleskop.rs/teleskop/okulari/gso-ploessl-okulari

(don't be tempted by 40mm one - no much point in going for 40mm as it will have narrower field of view and in principle show you same amount of the sky as 32mm)

Second recommendation would be to change diagonal mirror for something better - both optically and mechanically:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p1771_TS-Optics-1-25--TS-Optics-1-25--Star-Diagonal-with-ring-clamb---99----1-12-Lambda.html

would be a good choice. I use it with my Maksutov 102 and is indeed very solid diagonal mirror.

In the end, eyepieces that I would recommend to get are these:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bst-starguider-eyepieces.html

for general eyepieces and this one in particular for high power views:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/explore-scientific-eyepieces/explore-scientific-62-series-ler-eyepieces.html

5.5mm one.

 

 

Thanks a lot for the info mate.

Love this hobby. Only thing keeping me of not getting some serious scope is my budget. As salary is low in my country so I have to juggle a lot to sace some money. 

How much I love space shows that instead of a car (which I really need atm) I would rather buy a serious telescope. But till that day have to be satisfied with what I have. 

I figured out (more or less) how to use EQ2 and the scope. Last night I observed Jupiter and Saturn. Could see all of their moons (Ones that can be seen, I know that they have dozens of moons), and I was more or less satisfied as I was watching from pavement in middle of the town at 27 degree Celsius 😅.

In about 2 weeks I am traveling on vacation where the house is located in middle of forrest (it doesn't even have electricity), so I want to take it there hopefully to see the red spot on Jupiter and a little bit clearer look of Saturn's rings. 

 

Thanks everyone for warm welcome.

Best astro forum there is!

[igorigs]

Forgot to ask, which telescope would you recommend for around 450-550$? Check them out here http://www.teleskop.rs/ 
Where 1$ = 100 RSD approximately....

[vlaiv]

For that sort of money, best option is this:

http://www.teleskop.rs/teleskop/na-dobson-montazi/2001200-dobson-skywatcher

Only downside is that it is bulky telescope, quite large and heavy. You can disassemble it into two parts - Tube and base. Tube fits even small cars - in the back seat as it is a bit longer than 1m, and base should fit the car booth without issues.

I transported mine to Fruska Gora like that in a small car.

In two parts it can be carried by a single person. Tube is about 11Kg heavy, while the base is 15Kg heavy and somewhat awkward to carry around although it has handles.

Btw, check this out, although there seem to be interested parties so might have been sold by now:

https://forum.astronomija.org.rs/index.php?topic=7323.0

 

[Starwatcher2001]

Welcome aboard igorigs. Hope you quickly feel at home here. Good observing.

 

[igorigs]

25 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

For that sort of money, best option is this:

http://www.teleskop.rs/teleskop/na-dobson-montazi/2001200-dobson-skywatcher

Only downside is that it is bulky telescope, quite large and heavy. You can disassemble it into two parts - Tube and base. Tube fits even small cars - in the back seat as it is a bit longer than 1m, and base should fit the car booth without issues.

I transported mine to Fruska Gora like that in a small car.

In two parts it can be carried by a single person. Tube is about 11Kg heavy, while the base is 15Kg heavy and somewhat awkward to carry around although it has handles.

Btw, check this out, although there seem to be interested parties so might have been sold by now:

https://forum.astronomija.org.rs/index.php?topic=7323.0

 

Thanks a lot mate for this. It's really good to have our native forum as well. Tried finding some used scopes in Serbia but couldn't find any... Wish I saw this few days ago  

Wow, didn't know it was that heavy.. Anyways do you have any experience with small reflectors like the one I own?

 

[vlaiv]

9 minutes ago, igorigs said:

Anyways do you have any experience with small reflectors like the one I own?

You mean small refractor?

I used to own SW 102 F/5 wide field refractor. I now own SW 102mm F/10 refractor - a small step up from your 90/900 in terms of aperture. I also have 80mm F/6 APO refractor which I primarily use for imaging rather than observing.

I also had 60mm F/4 - but that was more guider/finder scope than anything else, although I did see some Messier objects with that small scope - but more for fun than any serious observing.

Btw, I didn't say anything on your question on what you can see with 90/900.

You can see a lot. You can see planets - all of them, but detail on each will be different. You'll be able to see phases of Venus and Mercury (although Mercury is rather tricky to see due to proximity of the Sun - I still have not observed Mercury), some albedo features on Mars - look for Mars in coming months, especially beginning of October - it will be placed good and quite large: 50 degrees of altitude and 22-23 arc seconds in diameter  - very nice observing opportunity.

Jupiter - you should be able to see main belts and zones and of course great red spot. Saturn - zones and ring system. Uranus and Neptune will be just dots - but you'll be able to recognize color of each.

Moon is a delight in almost any scope - observe moon when not fully illuminated - you want some shadow on the moon as that helps with seeing features / terrain.

For deep sky objects - you want dark skies. You should be able to see most of Messier objects and some more. I managed to see quite a few of M objects with 100mm of aperture from red zone light pollution of Novi Sad, so you should be able to do the same with 90mm if your sky is darker.

Both planetary and deep sky observing requires skill that you need to learn and master. Planetary observation requires relaxed observing position and patience at the eyepiece - waiting for that moment when atmosphere calms down enough and finest detail reveals itself. With DSO observing - you need to get dark adapted and there are few other tricks that you'll learn along the way (tapping telescope as motion helps when trying to spot something on the edge of observability and such tricks).

Just to point out - all deep sky objects will be just gray blobs and not much more. You should be able to spot structure in brighter ones with time - particularly star clusters and bright planetary nebulae.

Almost forgot - you can observe Sun - with appropriate filter only!!!!.

Never point telescope at the Sun unless you have suitable protective filters in place as it can blind you in an instant, cause burns or start a fire.

This is also important for finder scopes - best to keep them covered or removed from telescope when observing Sun.

Baader solar filter film is rather cheap and you can make your own filter with it (or just purchase ready made).

http://www.teleskop.rs/teleskop/filteri/baader-astrosolar-solarni-filter

Currently solar activity is rather low but we are past minimum and sun spots should be starting to appear. You'll also be able to see many features on the Sun - like granulation, faculae, ...

 

 

[igorigs]

2 hours ago, vlaiv said:

You mean small refractor?

I used to own SW 102 F/5 wide field refractor. I now own SW 102mm F/10 refractor - a small step up from your 90/900 in terms of aperture. I also have 80mm F/6 APO refractor which I primarily use for imaging rather than observing.

I also had 60mm F/4 - but that was more guider/finder scope than anything else, although I did see some Messier objects with that small scope - but more for fun than any serious observing.

Btw, I didn't say anything on your question on what you can see with 90/900.

You can see a lot. You can see planets - all of them, but detail on each will be different. You'll be able to see phases of Venus and Mercury (although Mercury is rather tricky to see due to proximity of the Sun - I still have not observed Mercury), some albedo features on Mars - look for Mars in coming months, especially beginning of October - it will be placed good and quite large: 50 degrees of altitude and 22-23 arc seconds in diameter  - very nice observing opportunity.

Jupiter - you should be able to see main belts and zones and of course great red spot. Saturn - zones and ring system. Uranus and Neptune will be just dots - but you'll be able to recognize color of each.

Moon is a delight in almost any scope - observe moon when not fully illuminated - you want some shadow on the moon as that helps with seeing features / terrain.

For deep sky objects - you want dark skies. You should be able to see most of Messier objects and some more. I managed to see quite a few of M objects with 100mm of aperture from red zone light pollution of Novi Sad, so you should be able to do the same with 90mm if your sky is darker.

Both planetary and deep sky observing requires skill that you need to learn and master. Planetary observation requires relaxed observing position and patience at the eyepiece - waiting for that moment when atmosphere calms down enough and finest detail reveals itself. With DSO observing - you need to get dark adapted and there are few other tricks that you'll learn along the way (tapping telescope as motion helps when trying to spot something on the edge of observability and such tricks).

Just to point out - all deep sky objects will be just gray blobs and not much more. You should be able to spot structure in brighter ones with time - particularly star clusters and bright planetary nebulae.

Almost forgot - you can observe Sun - with appropriate filter only!!!!.

Never point telescope at the Sun unless you have suitable protective filters in place as it can blind you in an instant, cause burns or start a fire.

This is also important for finder scopes - best to keep them covered or removed from telescope when observing Sun.

Baader solar filter film is rather cheap and you can make your own filter with it (or just purchase ready made).

http://www.teleskop.rs/teleskop/filteri/baader-astrosolar-solarni-filter

Currently solar activity is rather low but we are past minimum and sun spots should be starting to appear. You'll also be able to see many features on the Sun - like granulation, faculae, ...

 

 

Now this is some very useful info. Thanks for that! I will probably PM you if if I have some problems or to ask for some advices as we could talk in Serbian 😅

 

Didn't even think of observing the Sun, I know you are not supposed to look at it without the filter, I mean you can't look with naked eye not to mention with a scope.. Tip to remove the finder is very useful as I would forget to do that......

Anyway has any of you used the moon filter? How good is it, and can you ise it on planets? 

Oh and what filter would you recommend for Saturn and Jupiter, if you would even recommend any...

Oh yes yes, one more thing. Have no idea how to use Amici Prism...

[vlaiv]

3 minutes ago, igorigs said:

Anyway has any of you used the moon filter? How good is it, and can you ise it on planets? 

I don't use filters much - even with the Moon.

People say that Baader Contrast booster filter is good one - similar Neodymium moon & skyglow - as it emphasizes contrast.

I know that it reduces chromatic aberration in achromat scopes, but so does plain old wratten #8 yellow filter. Only difference begin color cast - as yellow filter casts a yellow tint on the view while other two mentioned filters have rather neutral color cast.

Here is very nice page on planetary performance of certain filters:

https://agenaastro.com/articles/guides/visual-and-imaging-filters/choosing-a-color-planetary-filter.html

7 minutes ago, igorigs said:

Oh and what filter would you recommend for Saturn and Jupiter, if you would even recommend any...

Look at above list for planetary use and other than that - I would recommend you to get UHC filter for emission type nebulae.

10 minutes ago, igorigs said:

Oh yes yes, one more thing. Have no idea how to use Amici Prism...

Are you quite sure you have Amici type prism and not a regular diagonal mirror?

Diagonal mirrors are fairly simple to use - just put them in focuser and put eyepiece in the other end - regardless of type of prism/diagonal you have.

It enables much more ergonomic observation than straight thru observation.

You can have diagonal with 90 degrees - usually used for astronomical observations and one with 45 degrees - that is more for daytime use - spotting scope type of use.

They are either mirrors or prisms. Mirrors reverse left/right / up/down - as mirrors do. Similarly regular prisms swap things (I think), but Amici prism is special as it presents "proper" image - upright and regular left/right. It is therefore much more useful for daytime observation as in astronomy there is no really up/down and left/right in outer space (it just depends on how observer is orientated / positioned).

One drawback of Amici type prism is that it is hard to make quality one and astronomical quality ones are very expensive. Regular ones tend to put a "line" in the view and scatter light - this is because of the way prism is made.

Here is what optical path in amici prism looks like:

Roof line is the thing that creates that line scatter of light ...

[igorigs]

2 hours ago, vlaiv said:

I don't use filters much - even with the Moon.

People say that Baader Contrast booster filter is good one - similar Neodymium moon & skyglow - as it emphasizes contrast.

I know that it reduces chromatic aberration in achromat scopes, but so does plain old wratten #8 yellow filter. Only difference begin color cast - as yellow filter casts a yellow tint on the view while other two mentioned filters have rather neutral color cast.

Here is very nice page on planetary performance of certain filters:

https://agenaastro.com/articles/guides/visual-and-imaging-filters/choosing-a-color-planetary-filter.html

Look at above list for planetary use and other than that - I would recommend you to get UHC filter for emission type nebulae.

Are you quite sure you have Amici type prism and not a regular diagonal mirror?

Diagonal mirrors are fairly simple to use - just put them in focuser and put eyepiece in the other end - regardless of type of prism/diagonal you have.

It enables much more ergonomic observation than straight thru observation.

You can have diagonal with 90 degrees - usually used for astronomical observations and one with 45 degrees - that is more for daytime use - spotting scope type of use.

They are either mirrors or prisms. Mirrors reverse left/right / up/down - as mirrors do. Similarly regular prisms swap things (I think), but Amici prism is special as it presents "proper" image - upright and regular left/right. It is therefore much more useful for daytime observation as in astronomy there is no really up/down and left/right in outer space (it just depends on how observer is orientated / positioned).

One drawback of Amici type prism is that it is hard to make quality one and astronomical quality ones are very expensive. Regular ones tend to put a "line" in the view and scatter light - this is because of the way prism is made.

Here is what optical path in amici prism looks like:

Roof line is the thing that creates that line scatter of light ...

 

It say's Amici Prism Diagonal 90 degree...... So guess you're right.

 

So basically they are only for flipping the picture? 

Information you're giving me is just top notch!

[Richard Wesson]

On 01/08/2020 at 11:42, vlaiv said:

My first recommendation would be to take some time and learn how to observe / see with the kit that you already have.

This is important for two reasons. First point being - indeed one learns to see, as time goes by you will see more and more. Second point is that you need to see how interested in this hobby you'll be in a long run. Based on that, you can make decision to either invest more money or just use what you have for casual observing now and then.

Just changing your eyepiece set and diagonal for something a bit better will quickly reach the price of your scope. Good thing is that eyepieces and other bits stay with you even if you change the telescope (unless you choose to upgrade them also at some point) - so it is long term investment, and that is of course reasonable only if you are committed to this hobby.

Having said above, here is what I would recommend in terms of eyepieces and upgrades.

This is something that you don't need to think much about - get 32mm GSO Plossl. My only concern is that your current diagonal, if indeed Amici prism and not simple diagonal mirror will have issues with vignetting this eyepiece. This eyepiece will give you widest possible field in 1.25" format at a good price and with very decent performance. It is eyepiece worth having for wide fields and as finder eyepiece.

Easiest way to get one would be from here: http://www.teleskop.rs/teleskop/okulari/gso-ploessl-okulari

(don't be tempted by 40mm one - no much point in going for 40mm as it will have narrower field of view and in principle show you same amount of the sky as 32mm)

Second recommendation would be to change diagonal mirror for something better - both optically and mechanically:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p1771_TS-Optics-1-25--TS-Optics-1-25--Star-Diagonal-with-ring-clamb---99----1-12-Lambda.html

would be a good choice. I use it with my Maksutov 102 and is indeed very solid diagonal mirror.

In the end, eyepieces that I would recommend to get are these:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bst-starguider-eyepieces.html

for general eyepieces and this one in particular for high power views:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/explore-scientific-eyepieces/explore-scientific-62-series-ler-eyepieces.html

5.5mm one.

 

 

+1 for the 32mm GSO plossl. I found it a big improvement over the standard Skywatcher EP which are I believe a modified achromat. These are also branded 'Revelation'. I also got the 20mm and 12mm as well as the 2.5x barlow by the same company after a bit of a spending spree... but obviously these are not essential and I find myslef using the 32mm most.  The EPs were not paricularly expensive - especially as I bought from Astroboot - https://www.astroboot.co.uk/AstroBoot

Not sure if they deliver to Serbia though. 

[Pete Presland]

Hi welcome to SGL from Peter in Bedfordshire 🙂