TAL-1 refurbished

[BS269]

Been some time since I posted on here about my TAL-1 that I was going to strip down and refurb. Well here it is - got some before and after pictures for comparison... had many people say it looks like a old rocket launcher so thought I’d stick with the idea and go for military green colour!

Definitely gave myself a hard task giving my first ever telescope, made in 1993 (I think) new life. Haven’t done the finder scope and there are some scratch marks due to lack of proper storage and I was missing a leg, which I got made, so some retouching is in order. But overall I’m very happy it’s finally in full working order! 

Gave it first light a couple nights ago. Turns out it has pinched optics. So need to get that sorted and make sure collimation is spot on, but I got some nice views of the moon, which was good enough for me! I gave Jupiter a shot and I think more accurate collimation is in order, but I’ll get there.

[Jiggy 67]

Nice job!! Looks like a labour of love 

[DaveL59]

nice!! Well done too on getting a new foot made for it, they're a nice stable setup and very solid. I see yours is the motorised model, hopefully that all works too.

My 1995 TAL-1 with manual mount is in fairly good condition with only a few marks in the original off-white but I'll maybe refurbish it one day too, once I've completed work on the TAL-M that is along with a couple other bits I'm fiddling with. I did replace the focuser on mine for the later 1.25-inch version and shifted the main mirror up the tube using longer screws and springs rather than cutting the OTA, might be a worthwhile mod later on.

I've also flocked the inside of the OTA on the TAL-M by using a sheet of acetate and applying the flock to that, to get a darker path to the main mirror, the internal of the OTA seems a touch greasy or unwilling to adhere to so this seemed an easier option and simple to revert from. I'll probably do the same for the TAL-1 at a later date but otherwise I find mine performs very well.

 

[sloz1664]

Fabulous refurb on the old Gal. I do like the new green livery, although will it like you in the dark

Steve 

[BS269]

25 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

nice!! Well done too on getting a new foot made for it, they're a nice stable setup and very solid. I see yours is the motorised model, hopefully that all works too.

My 1995 TAL-1 with manual mount is in fairly good condition with only a few marks in the original off-white but I'll maybe refurbish it one day too, once I've completed work on the TAL-M that is along with a couple other bits I'm fiddling with. I did replace the focuser on mine for the later 1.25-inch version and shifted the main mirror up the tube using longer screws and springs rather than cutting the OTA, might be a worthwhile mod later on.

I've also flocked the inside of the OTA on the TAL-M by using a sheet of acetate and applying the flock to that, to get a darker path to the main mirror, the internal of the OTA seems a touch greasy or unwilling to adhere to so this seemed an easier option and simple to revert from. I'll probably do the same for the TAL-1 at a later date but otherwise I find mine performs very well.

 

I was given the cables for the motor the other day but they don’t look particularly safe. I haven’t tried it but I don’t think I’m going too tbh. Maybe one day when I’m mentally prepared to face mains electricity (not for the first time) 😂

I have pushed the mirror forward by about 30mm, I just forgot to say! I haven’t changed the focuser though, just stuck some PVC tape in it so it fits my baader Hyperion zoom quite snug now. I will soon be buying an EQ6-R so I will fit the scope on there also whilst learning the mount and saving up for a bigger scope.

i probably won’t end up giving this set up enough time before upgrading, but I’ve spent that much time doing it up I won’t just be leaving it to rot again. Heard many people say the optics are good on this scope so once I get the collimation right I’m sure I’ll be blown away with the views!

I did spray paint the OTA Inside a Matt black colour but the picture doesn’t really show it. I did the best I could with it but I couldn’t reach my hand inside to do the middle so it is probably quite uneven and not fully covered. Never heard of flocking before what is it? Will the reflectivity of the inside affect the performance much?

[DaveL59]

Blackboard paint may be better than matt black as it'll be flatter in terms of light. Flocking is a sticky-backed black velvet that looks very dark as light isn't reflecting off the surface so may give a better image. Not had a chance to try it as I'm still completing the refurb on mine and at the mo can't lift heavy stuff so no chance of dragging a scope out to play. I expect yours will work just fine though, only object likely to cause surface reflections will be a bright moon after all 😉 

Good move on the mirror and focuser, I squeezed the tangs in slightly on my original focuser so it held the 1.25-inchers snug and that worked ok too. Just have to remember when you flip the scope so they don't fall out.

Know what you mean about mains, an RCD on the house end will help and a plastic box to place the connections into so they don't get damp on the ground would help. The original would give 12vAC I believe, worth checking if it all works and then you can decide if you might use it or if other works may be needed on that part. There's a thread here I think it was Mark who rebuilt it with a different motor and battery power source.

[BS269]

Ahh okay nice! When I come round to retouching and doing the finderscope I’ll keep that in mind to do. Thanks for letting me know!

when I say a snug fit, I mean I have to give it a bit of force to shove it all the way in, so it is a very good fit, I think I even tested it upside down and it didn’t move. And that’s a big bulky baader Hyperion zoom mk iii.

i may give the motor a shot, I guess it is worth trying. But if it doesn’t I’m not really interested in fixing it. At least for now anyway; maybe one day when I’m more Experienced and fancy a challenge.

cheers!

[DaveL59]

good idea to have tested the fit, sounds nice and secure which is good. As to further mods, worth seeing how it performs as-is and then decide if you might gain anything from doing more, the gains reduce progressively I expect. As it stands it looks very good and certainly different, perhaps a fake shell nose cone on the end cap would amuse folks too 😉

As for the motor, if it still works then it may make things easier for tracking objects if you have the RA axis pointing north so you aren't having to be tweaking the manual controls to stay on target, you can just relax and enjoy the view. One for later on tho perhaps.

[markse68]

Lovely job and I like the colour too

Main mirror looks in good condition considering the state the exterior was in!

My Tal-1M was what got me back into this pastime a bit more than a year ago. Haven’t used mine in a while but it’s a lovely piece of kit. I stepperised mine so I could run it off a Makita battery out in the field and it worked nicely- it’s very pleasing to be able to aim it and then not have to keep tweaking the slomos particularly at higher powers. I used tape too for the focuser.

Enjoy!

Mark

[Alfian]

Well done, great job. Love the green but as has been intimated it might blend in with the folliage, perhaps a discrete reflective strip here and there!  I have a real soft spot for the Tal1, optically they punch way above their now lowly agricultural type  image, though not their weight! I did a renovation/modification job on the Tal1 I had.Mine was a later model 1997/8 I think and was white. Flocking the tube is a relatively easy job on the Tal1 and does make a difference. One of the nice  things about the Tal1 is that you can easily remove both the primary mirror/cell and secondary mirror and spider, do whatever and replace them because both primary and secondary  collimation is so easy.  I'd read somewhere that on earlier Tals the pedistal tube was rifled as they were recycled tank gun barrels. I don't know whether this was true or just a popular myth. Mine wasn't just wondered if your is?

[DaveL59]

to give an idea of the difference flocking can make, I've just finished refit of the mirrors in my TAL-M, the spider is painted in blackboard paint, brush.

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

Fantastic. That looks a great Russian missile lau... erm... telescope.

Hopefully when the optics are collimated you will write a observation report laced with fulfillment and joy! 😀

 

[Roy Challen]

11 hours ago, Alfian said:

 I'd read somewhere that on earlier Tals the pedistal tube was rifled as they were recycled tank gun barrels. I don't know whether this was true or just a popular myth. Mine wasn't just wondered if your is?

If that's true, I want one! Can you imagine turning up to inspect it? Mirrors ok, check, eyepieces present check, rifling good, check.

Back to the OP though, great job! The colour looks great - I might think about doing the same to my 100RS.

[BS269]

Wow been away for a bit I wasn’t expecting this many replies! Thanks to all the kind words, it’s collimated and ready to use, but I also ended up seeing a great deal for a skywatcher 12” collapsible GoTo dob + extras on the weekend that wasn’t too far away from me. It’s exactly what I wanted so ended up buying it. As my Astro-shed isn’t up yet the dob has taken priority and the TAL is stored away for the time being. Hopefully in a couple weeks I can give some proper viewing experience with it.

dave - I’m not going to do any more modding for now, as you said it will now be a case of using and modding if I see fit along the way. I don’t really want to take too much of it’s vintage look away tho. The flocking looks great however! What is your eyepiece rack btw? It looks like a polar scope In a focuser 😂

mark - the mirror was in quite a grim state.. I’m surprised it cleaned as well as it did to be honest. There is some obvious wear though that can’t be seen in the picture. 

Alfian - I’m really excited to use it now it’s fully collimated. I believe my pinched optics were down to the locking ring in the primary mirror, which I really tightened down. It’s much looser now but still doesn’t allow the mirror to move, and whilst it was disassembled I added a centre spot, which made the collimation process far easier. My spider veins are quite awkward though. They are slightly bent and the screw caps were very stiff, which made it quite difficult to reassemble them and to centre the secondary mirror. I am quite reluctant to take them out again now really. I also couldn’t tell you about the tank gun barrels, as I don’t know what the pedistal tube is or what rifling looks like 😂 if you could describe where to look I’ll be happy to check though.

[DaveL59]

ahh on the TAL-M the focuser has the finder built into it, you slide it out to use the eyepiece on the main mirrors, slid inward it intercepts the path and deflects via a built-in diagonal to the finder objective. Very neat arrangement, here it is off the scope while I was doing the refurb

 

[Alfian]

1 hour ago, BS269 said:

Wow been away for a bit I wasn’t expecting this many replies! Thanks to all the kind words, it’s collimated and ready to use, but I also ended up seeing a great deal for a skywatcher 12” collapsible GoTo dob + extras on the weekend that wasn’t too far away from me. It’s exactly what I wanted so ended up buying it. As my Astro-shed isn’t up yet the dob has taken priority and the TAL is stored away for the time being. Hopefully in a couple weeks I can give some proper viewing experience with it.

dave - I’m not going to do any more modding for now, as you said it will now be a case of using and modding if I see fit along the way. I don’t really want to take too much of it’s vintage look away tho. The flocking looks great however! What is your eyepiece rack btw? It looks like a polar scope In a focuser 😂

mark - the mirror was in quite a grim state.. I’m surprised it cleaned as well as it did to be honest. There is some obvious wear though that can’t be seen in the picture. 

Alfian - I’m really excited to use it now it’s fully collimated. I believe my pinched optics were down to the locking ring in the primary mirror, which I really tightened down. It’s much looser now but still doesn’t allow the mirror to move, and whilst it was disassembled I added a centre spot, which made the collimation process far easier. My spider veins are quite awkward though. They are slightly bent and the screw caps were very stiff, which made it quite difficult to reassemble them and to centre the secondary mirror. I am quite reluctant to take them out again now really. I also couldn’t tell you about the tank gun barrels, as I don’t know what the pedistal tube is or what rifling looks like 😂 if you could describe where to look I’ll be happy to check though.

You've been busy! The 12" will be quite something. Rifling just means that looking down the "barrel" of the pedestal tube it will appear as if it has large guage spiral screw down it's length. Rifling spins the bullet/shell as it leaves the barrel which I think increases velocity and accuracy tho' others will probably be able to give a better answer on that. Like I say it might be all nonsense anyway! It might be just a fanciful extension of the "built like a tank" idea.

[DaveL59]

1 hour ago, Alfian said:

You've been busy! The 12" will be quite something. Rifling just means that looking down the "barrel" of the pedestal tube it will appear as if it has large guage spiral screw down it's length. Rifling spins the bullet/shell as it leaves the barrel which I think increases velocity and accuracy tho' others will probably be able to give a better answer on that. Like I say it might be all nonsense anyway! It might be just a fanciful extension of the "built like a tank" idea.

I think the aim is to improve the aim rather than velocity, since the shell would lose some of the impulse energy in gaining spin, albeit a small fraction. I've not looked down the TAL-1 tubes but can say the TAL-M I have isn't rifled. Maybe it did happen on early ones tho, if they simply repurposed tooling or processing methods at the start. I doubt they'd have been real armoury barrels given the material, ally wouldn't take the heat very well for rapid fire nor last many rounds of occasional use I'd think. Kinda adds to the mystique of these old Russian gizzmos tho huh 😉 

[markse68]

31 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

I think the aim is to improve the aim rather than velocity, since the shell would lose some of the impulse energy in gaining spin, albeit a small fraction. I've not looked down the TAL-1 tubes but can say the TAL-M I have isn't rifled. Maybe it did happen on early ones tho, if they simply repurposed tooling or processing methods at the start. I doubt they'd have been real armoury barrels given the material, ally wouldn't take the heat very well for rapid fire nor last many rounds of occasional use I'd think. Kinda adds to the mystique of these old Russian gizzmos tho huh 😉 

Sounds like the story a mate once tried to get me to believe that kenwood chefs started out as surplus spitfire starter motors or some such. You’re probably going to tell me that’s true now aren’t you😂

Edited August 5, 2020 by markse68

[JeremyS]

19 minutes ago, markse68 said:

Sounds like the story a mate once tried to get me to believe that kenwood chefs started out as surplus spitfire starter motors or some such. You’re probably going to tell me that’s true now aren’t you😂

Love it 😂!

[Alfian]

13 hours ago, markse68 said:

You’re probably going to tell me that’s true now aren’t you

Oh heck,  you mean that's a myth too? When our food processor kicks off its sounds like a B17's Cyclone radial engine starting up so  I thought ......... oh no.  Shine a light, The Tal, the mixer, what else - my whole life could be a lie....😂

[Telescope40]

Hello. Lovely photos and work you have carried out here @BS269

Used to own one back in the mid nineties from Scope City in Liverpool. It started my re ignition of Astronomy as a hobby after a long interlude.
Enjoy you will. 
John  

[BS269]

On 05/08/2020 at 21:02, Alfian said:

You've been busy! The 12" will be quite something. Rifling just means that looking down the "barrel" of the pedestal tube it will appear as if it has large guage spiral screw down it's length. Rifling spins the bullet/shell as it leaves the barrel which I think increases velocity and accuracy tho' others will probably be able to give a better answer on that. Like I say it might be all nonsense anyway! It might be just a fanciful extension of the "built like a tank" idea.

Ahh okay, I have looked down the pedestal tube before when cleaning and I don’t recall seeing anything like that sadly. Maybe they existed on the very first scopes being made? 
 

I’ve been trying the dobsonian out the last couple nights, having some new kit problems but I’m getting there.. got the tracking working properly for the first time last night which was very exciting! But my Cheshire collimator doesn’t give me a full view of the secondary, so I’m pretty sure my collimation is a bit off as my view of Jupiter and a couple DSO’s had no detail. so I need to order a collimation cap! Think my problem is that I don’t know how much detail I should be able to see.

Edited August 9, 2020 by BS269

[badhex]

Hello @BS269

I know this thread is ancient but it's such a fantastic job, I was wondering if you could share a bit about your process for the refurb? 

Things like how you prepared the surfaces, what the materials for the various surfaces were and which paints you used. 

Thanks!