Help! Please. HEQ5 erratic behaviour

[Orion Carl]

Hi all, I’m after some help/advice or suggestions with my HEQ5 go-to mount.

 

i run the mount via a powered USB hub. And it’s powered with a 12v 2amp mains plug I purchased from Amazon. The USB hub is new and all other devices behave ok.

 

problems. 
 

the mount randomly disconnects. I get an “external disconnection of telescope detected” in SGP. It periodically will not centre on a target. Sometimes clearing alignment points in EQMOD helps, sometimes it doesn’t. It will randomly loose its park position and park in a different position to home. I’ll manually put it where it should be. Most mornings I find the scope pointing in a weird position due to a random disconnect. I’ll re-open eqmod and it will park.

 

interestingly PHD doesn’t seem to disconnect. From what I’ve noticed. However I get random spikes in guiding on both or either axis.

 

just after some opinions on what could be failing. Power problem maybe? Faulty cable? Motherboard going south?

 

any comments very much appreciated.

[JamesF]

I'd not say it's definitely the cause but I wonder if the power supply isn't really capable of pushing out enough power.  It could be that the voltage is wobbling a bit when the mount is drawing close to the maximum output of the PSU and I don't think the mount will like the voltage dipping below 12V.  You might have more luck with something capable of delivering 4A or 5A at 12V.  Perhaps something like this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/lynx-astro-12v-dc-5amp-low-noise-mains-power-supply.html

Or even this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/nevada-ps-08-6a-8a-regulated-linear-power-supply.html

(You may need a suitable power cable for the mount with the second one.)

James

[Merlin66]

+1 for the power supply...

you need around 2.5A max when slewing both axis.

 

[Cornelius Varley]

9 hours ago, Orion Carl said:

i run the mount via a powered USB hub. And it’s powered with a 12v 2amp mains plug I purchased from Amazon. The USB hub is new and all other devices behave ok.

The mount needs at least 2amps to operate correctly. If the usb hub psu can only supply 2amps and other devices are also running at the same time then the psu might struggle and fail.  The mount requires its own psu with at least 2amps continuous (5amps is better).  Do you have a link to the usb hub and psu ?

[newbie alert]

I've heard that they like 12.8-13.8v.. you can test by slewing the mount on both axis at full speed , does your red light flicker 

Only what I've read, never owned one

[Orion Carl]

20 minutes ago, newbie alert said:

I've heard that they like 12.8-13.8v.. you can test by slewing the mount on both axis at full speed , does your red light flicker 

Only what I've read, never owned one

The light doesn’t flicker and it tends to complete the fast slews ok. The disconnects are pretty random.

[Orion Carl]

50 minutes ago, Cornelius Varley said:

The mount needs at least 2amps to operate correctly. If t

[Orion Carl]

9 hours ago, JamesF said:

I'd not say it's definitely the cause but I wonder if the power supply isn't really capable of pushing out enough power.  It could be that the voltage is wobbling a bit when the mount is drawing close to the maximum output of the PSU and I don't think the mount will like the voltage dipping below 12V.  You might have more luck with something capable of delivering 4A or 5A at 12V.  Perhaps something like this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/lynx-astro-12v-dc-5amp-low-noise-mains-power-supply.html

Or even this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/nevada-ps-08-6a-8a-regulated-linear-power-supply.html

(You may need a suitable power cable for the mount with the second one.)

James

Thanks James, I’ve bought the top

one you’ve linked to give a try.

many thanks,

carl

[Tomatobro]

Sorting intermittent's is really difficult because most of the time everything is working ok.

I take it the mount has worked ok for sometime before the problems started? did the problems start when the new usb hub was fitted or was the new hub a result of trying to fix an issue?

If the mount stopped because of a power supply droop then it would not park properly, but you mention that restarting via ASCOM the mount would park ok so that would suggest that the power supply was ok.

Does your control setup keep an event log?

[Cornelius Varley]

7 minutes ago, Orion Carl said:

Another photo from the listing might give you a clue to the problem

Quote

"The maximum power from your device should not exceed 2 amps. The could easily exceed that withouth other devices connected. The psu might reset if the max amps is exceeded (mount restarts or behaves erratically)

[JamesF]

2 minutes ago, Orion Carl said:

Thanks James, I’ve bought the top

one you’ve linked to give a try.

I think that's a good plan.  The impression I have is that it's fairly widely accepted that the HEQ5 (and others) can perform erratically if the power supply isn't quite up to delivering what's required, so this should at least eliminate any chance it is related to that.  A 2A supply may well be enough in theory, but some are definitely built to a price and may not perform quite so well in the kinds of environments that are common for astronomy -- below freezing, for example, or strong direct sunlight if you happened to be doing some solar observation/imaging.

James

[JamesF]

1 minute ago, Cornelius Varley said:

"The maximum power from your device should not exceed 2 amps. The could easily exceed that withouth other devices connected. The psu might reset if the max amps is exceeded (mount restarts or behaves erratically)

Am I missing something there?  It's a fixed-voltage 12VDC PSU that can allegedly push out 2A, yet it says the device connected to it should not require more than 12W.  Surely 12W at 12VDC is 1A?

James

[Physopto]

I agree with what others have said, in that there is a lower limit for voltage and  amperage supplied to these mounts.

Note : The LED may not flicker, but may be on the verge of that condition. 2 amps is far too low. I would try a separate supply capable of say 5 amps at 12 volts (minimum voltage at the mount not supply). 13.6  volts would be better. Don't forget that there will be a voltage drop over the cable to the mount as well under load. So the mount may not be even getting that voltage stated.

If the voltage drops to say below 12 volts all that happens is the mount still tries to draw the same power.

So 12 volts at 2 amps is 24 watts absolute minimum needed for stable working.

Therefore 24 watts but at say 11.5 volts then tries to draw 24/11.5 = 2.09 amps ,the happens same at 11 volts  the draw will be around 2.2 amps.  10.5 volts the draw will be approx 2.29 amps. It only needs to happen for an instant to cause a problem!

Instantaneous spikes in the power drawn by the mount could be the reason for your random problems.

One further note of REAL interest to anyone using such a low rated supply. That is the internal circuitry of these mount boards can burn out because they are not rated for the higher current draw.

A very costly business in the end.

The moral is buy better supply to be sure of supply capabilities. Never use the least capable supply use better.

Derek

[JamesF]

1 minute ago, Physopto said:

The moral is buy better supply to be sure of supply capabilities. Never use the least capable supply use better.

I think by going for the Lynx Astro supply the OP should find that this is now the case   I'd be beyond surprised if FLO said that it was suitable for the HEQ5 Pro if it were actually a bit marginal.

James

[Cornelius Varley]

6 minutes ago, JamesF said:

Am I missing something there?  It's a fixed-voltage 12VDC PSU that can allegedly push out 2A, yet it says the device connected to it should not require more than 12W.  Surely 12W at 12VDC is 1A?

James

I'm confused by it too.

[Astrosharkey]

I had the same issue with an EQ5 GOTO - Upgraded the power supply to one of the FLO ones and it now pushes out the juice for the mount, camera, dew bands and focuser with lots of amps to spare

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Just to add more fuel to the fire:

Whatever issues I were having with any 12V astro equipment the first thing I would probably do is try a different power supply of the correct rating, or better, and if it was just one piece of equipment failing I would run that one separately on the new power supply and leave others as they were (for now)

When I am happy that has stopped any issues if the supply is capable of it I might then put some of the other items on that new supply.

The one you have bought looks a good purchase and  I suspect apart from the extra power available it may actually be a smoother less noisy supply ( but no evidence of that just a thought).

Personally, In general, I do not like to put all equipment on one supply whether it is capable of delivering enough wattage or not, as some items of equipment can put noise onto that supply, especially where motors are concerned. That is maybe unusual in these times of much better electronics and maybe my old fashioned way when things were not so good. If one item puts noise on the 12V supply then that can affect other equipment which may take a dislike to it.

Maybe not so in your case as if I had to pick any item that would do this then it would be the mount that would affect other equipment and not the actual mount that would fail.

Anyway I suggest you try the mount on the new supply first and leave your other stuff on the original one. See if that cures the issue. If it still happens then I would suspect the USB connection. 

On another note that could very easily be an issue, USB hubs are notoriously iffy and you can read many threads on here about issues caused by USB hubs, even the more expensive ones.

And it is not always clear cut as some equipment can run quite happily on the hub whilst others do not. Also gets worse in that some nights all may function perfectly then another night a different tale.

Many, including myself, have got rid of USB hubs altogether and never looked back.

For sure if the new supply does not cure the issue I would remove the USB hub from the chain and plug the mount directly into one of the laptop / computer USB ports. You could leave other connections in the hub although again from experience I would never connect a camera via a hub, but again just my experience.

I could not say there is not an issue with your mount motherboard etc but it is less likely that the USB connection or power supply so eliminate those first.

Good luck I hope you find the issue as these intermittent problems are really frustrating but unfortunately you are not alone I think we all have the same troubles at spome point.

Steve

 

[teoria_del_big_bang]

31 minutes ago, JamesF said:

Am I missing something there?  It's a fixed-voltage 12VDC PSU that can allegedly push out 2A, yet it says the device connected to it should not require more than 12W.  Surely 12W at 12VDC is 1A?

James

I do not think you are missing anything but the listing is obviously not correct somewhere, but the label on the supply does say 2000 mA so it looks like it is actually 2A or 24W at 12V.

[Orion Carl]

1 hour ago, Tomatobro said:

Sorting intermittent's is really difficult because most of the time everything is working ok.

I take it the mount has worked ok for sometime before the problems started? did the problems start when the new usb hub was fitted or was the new hub a result of trying to fix an issue?

If the mount stopped because of a power supply droop then it would not park properly, but you mention that restarting via ASCOM the mount would park ok so that would suggest that the power supply was ok.

Does your control setup keep an event log?

Yeah I can’t really pinpoint when it started. But as you say, all was ok for a long time and then all these problems started. I’ll see if I can make sense of the SGP logs.

[Orion Carl]

1 hour ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Just to add more fuel to the fire:

Whatever issues I were having with any 12V astro equipment the first thing I would probably do is try a different power supply of the correct rating, or better, and if it was just one piece of equipment failing I would run that one separately on the new power supply and leave others as they were (for now)

When I am happy that has stopped any issues if the supply is capable of it I might then put some of the other items on that new supply.

The one you have bought looks a good purchase and  I suspect apart from the extra power available it may actually be a smoother less noisy supply ( but no evidence of that just a thought).

Personally, In general, I do not like to put all equipment on one supply whether it is capable of delivering enough wattage or not, as some items of equipment can put noise onto that supply, especially where motors are concerned. That is maybe unusual in these times of much better electronics and maybe my old fashioned way when things were not so good. If one item puts noise on the 12V supply then that can affect other equipment which may take a dislike to it.

Maybe not so in your case as if I had to pick any item that would do this then it would be the mount that would affect other equipment and not the actual mount that would fail.

Anyway I suggest you try the mount on the new supply first and leave your other stuff on the original one. See if that cures the issue. If it still happens then I would suspect the USB connection. 

On another note that could very easily be an issue, USB hubs are notoriously iffy and you can read many threads on here about issues caused by USB hubs, even the more expensive ones.

And it is not always clear cut as some equipment can run quite happily on the hub whilst others do not. Also gets worse in that some nights all may function perfectly then another night a different tale.

Many, including myself, have got rid of USB hubs altogether and never looked back.

For sure if the new supply does not cure the issue I would remove the USB hub from the chain and plug the mount directly into one of the laptop / computer USB ports. You could leave other connections in the hub although again from experience I would never connect a camera via a hub, but again just my experience.

I could not say there is not an issue with your mount motherboard etc but it is less likely that the USB connection or power supply so eliminate those first.

Good luck I hope you find the issue as these intermittent problems are really frustrating but unfortunately you are not alone I think we all have the same troubles at spome point.

Steve

 

Thank you so much for all your suggestions. Power seems to be the common consensus. I’ll be sure to report back once I have it and have given it a few nights trial.

 

really appreciate all the incredibly helpful comments.

many thanks,

carl

 

 

[Physopto]

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/nevada-ps-08-6a-8a-regulated-linear-power-supply.html

 

Best option of those suggested I think. A stabilized out put of 13.6 volt output at up to 8 amps.

Derek

[Merlin66]

To ensure minimal hassles with power.....

For the past ten years or so I've used a 120W car laptop convertor - 12V to 15V to power both my HEQ5pro and NEQ6pro mounts.

 

[Physopto]

54 minutes ago, Merlin66 said:

To ensure minimal hassles with power.....

For the past ten years or so I've used a 120W car laptop convertor - 12V to 15V to power both my HEQ5pro and NEQ6pro mounts.

 

I reckon you are always better off using a 12 volt power source rather than 240 volt. Trouble is the maintenance on batteries and costs involved. Not every one can either afford it or be bothered with the hassle. To be honest if stuck with 240 volt, as long as you always use an RCD (and TEST it each time) you should be OK.

Derek

[Merlin66]

I should have said, the 12V to 15V convertor is used both with batteries (2 x 20Ah gel cell golf buggy batteries) and the 240V to 12V 10A transformer.

 

[Miguel1983]

+1 on the power-supply.

I might be overdoing it, as i use 2  13.8V 10A power supplies, one dedicated to the mount and the other powers all the rest, never had any issues though 😄