A tale of two Veils

[Stu]

The beauty of having a 14" Sumerian Alkaid is that it fits in the boot of the car, even with everything needed for a week away with the family, without even being noticed! 🤣 I packed the 72mm TS and also the Heritage 130P too as it did not take up much room, but so far have only used the 14" and 72mm. I packed the Airport accelerator with a decent range of kit, the 72mm goes in there easily, but this is the full list.

TS72mm

Baader Zeiss Prism

30mm ES 82 degree

20mm APM 100 degree

24mm Panoptic

12.5mm Docter 84 degree

3 to 6mm Nag Zoom

Various BGOs to fill any gaps

6x30 finder

Rigel Quickfinder

SQM-L

Lumicon UHC and OIII 2" filters

Plus a few other bits and bobs. It was all I needed for either scope, I had the Ercole and Gitzo separately to take the refractor.

I did a quick web search and found a place within 20 mins of where we are staying, near Manorbier which looked very promising, better than mag 21 predicted and with a sea horizon. I negotiated a one night pass for the week with my dear lady, and despite the poor weather during the day the satellite images and Clear Outside promised a very good clear spell from around 8 until 1 or 2am so I played my joker and plumped for last night! I was hoping that the rain would have washed the skies clean and left good transparency.

I arrived at the site soon after 8, with the sun low in the West. I had a quick recce, and found a couple of likely places; the best one occupied by three ladies having a sunset picnic, so I pottered around until they left and then started to setup. I did not want too much kit out at once, so opted for the 14" which went together relatively easily. Collimation was a bit of a challenge; the compact design requires the secondary to be removed every time but with my collimating eyepiece (which has concentric circles to make aligning the secondary easier. EDIT found the link to it here https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p5506_TS-Concenter-2--colimation-eyepiece-for-Newtonian-Telescopes.html) and a laser I soon got there. I refined it with a star test and whilst it was not perfect it was good enough for what I was after. I did find a problem in that at very low altitudes the mirror was flopping forward a little, giving very poor views obviously. I need to have a look at the clips which seem to be set much too far from the surface, but that is a job for home not at the edge of a cliff .

While I was collimating the scope, two local Special Constables arrived and came up for a chat. They had been debating what the scope was, with a lawnmower being one suggestion 🤣🤣. We had a chat about what I was going to look at and about the scope. They reassured me that it was a relatively safe place which put my mind at rest.

From messages I sent to Gavstar and PeterW, I can see that it was mag 20.5 at 21.45 and then 21.16 by 22.15. That was as good as it got, but still close to the 21.5 prediction. I took a variety of readings and all were over mag 21 even down relatively low over the sea. The biggest negative of the night was the bank of low cloud on the horizon which didn't really shift, and obscured the best of the objects down in Sagitarius. Perhaps on this occasion the Mewlon mounted on the Ercole would have been a better bet, but there were still plenty of higher targets to go after. Once fully dark, M31 was easily naked eye and looked large! The Double Cluster was also obvious, and I even got hints of M13, so these were decent skies.

Early on I picked up M57 and M27. The latter I'm always amazed by in the larger scope as it looks more like a large oval with the outer reaches easily visible.

I tried M13 at the same time and whilst good, I knew it would get better and indeed it did. Resolving right into the core once it was properly dark, with the Propeller showing clearly. M92 looked pretty good too, smaller obviously but with it's own merits. M15 and M22 were others viewed, although M22 was tricky due to the low altitude it is a lovely sight. The Double Cluster was pretty impressive, so many stars, although my preference is still a good refractor view. M11 was stunning, it's so much better at higher power under a dark sky, lovely Vs of stars with the mag 8.1 HD174512 shining brightly amongst all the rest.

Gerry had challenged me to find NGC40, so I spent a bit of time hunting that one down and eventually found it. Quite a tricky one, and small at 0.6 x 0.6 arc mins and mag 10.9. It seemed to have a brighter centre and dimmer halo around it but hard to pick up any detail.

M31 looked huge in the field of view of the 30mm ES, M32 was small fuzzy ball, and M110 an oval glow, clearly a galaxy. Both just about fitted into the field of view together.

This actually turned into a night of few objects but giving plenty of time to them. The two being my favourites the Veil and North America nebula. I'm not sure why, but somehow I find starhopping much relaxing with a refractor on an alt AZ mount than a dob, so I end up sticking to familiar territory. Anyhow, that was no hardship as these two targets were extremely rewarding.

Thanks to John's recent post about Revealing the Veil, I had the map to refer to.

I did my best to keep my dark adaptation by closing my left eye when looking at my dimmed phone! It worked very well.

So, on the Veil I used the 30mm and 20mm eye pieces. The 30mm allowed me to view larger sections, easier to put in context and the 20mm gave that bit more detail. The Lumicon OIII was as good as ever, and it is not an exaggeration to say these were the best views I've ever had of these lovely objects. The combination of good transparency, dark skies and decent aperture is one I've not managed to get altogether before in the Veil.

I started, as usual at 52 Cygni with the Witch's Broom sweeping past it with its kink just before the star and found that the almost 3D tubular effect was beginning to be visible. Moving down to the brush end of the broomstick the split in the end was very evident, and also the fainter nebulosity to the East of this. Beyond the end of the broom, there was plenty going on in the region towards C and D on John's chart, it was a little tricky to identify discrete elements to it but lots of faint stuff there.

Moving to Pickering's Wisp, this was as clear as I've seen it, with good extension of the wider end of the triangle. The part marked E was clearly separated too. I then followed 'The Thin Thread' all the way across to where it effectively joined up with the areas C and D, something I've never done before. Moving past NGCs 6974 and 6979 and across to the brighter Eastern Veil, sweeping down this revealed some structure, and the very evident two hooks where the labels NGC6995 and IC1340 are on the diagram although I'm not sure they refer to these specifically. There was nebulosity beyond this, and the little knot marked H was visible too.

Overall I spent a couple of hours on the Veil, sweeping to and fro to pick up as much as I could, really rewarding stuff.

The NAN was, again, very obvious and well defined, particularly around the gulf region. The three roughly mag 10 stars marking the outer edge of what I suppose is Mexico are great to view, and overall this is the most interesting part I guess. The nebulosity extended up along way from this and I found it harder to keep track of the overall shape with the relatively narrow field of view.

Some cloud started coming in at this point, probably around 12.30am, so I decided to pack the dob away and head home. Once done however the skies were again lovely and clear, so I thought I would give the 72mm a chance, not expecting much because of the small aperture and the fact that I had let my dark adaptation go a bit whilst packing the dob away.

I was very pleasantly surprised I must say. With the 30mm giving over 5.5 degrees, the full Veil complex fitted in easily, with clear sky all around. East and Western Veil and Pickering's Wisp all visible. Far less detail visible obviously, for instance I could not detect the split in the broom, but seeing the whole object in context is a fabulous experience. I guess it was just the great skies, but I've not seen it this good before even in my Televue 76 or Tak 76.

The North America Nebula is another that benefits from the additional context, if anything more so than the Veil. Perhaps because it doesn't have as much going on internally, it is all about the overall shape. I didn't really focus on picking up the Pelican, so won't add this to the list, I think I got it but not sure.

During the evening a chap called Neil arrived in  the same car park for a spot of widefield astrophotography. We had a couple of nice little chats, and he was kind enough to take an image of the MW with me silhouetted against the sky which he emailed me today. Looks fabulous! Obviously the MW was not that bright but still the Cygnus rift was very marked and there was some structure particularly towards the south.

I got home at 2am, and it was very interesting to note that the Milky Way was still quite noticeable from near the town centre, and I measured the sky at 20.85. Pretty impressive!

Just a final note of thanks to @Johnwho, via this forum quite some years ago, introduced me to the Veil and the concept of viewing it in widefields of view. I mimicked his Vixen 102 f6.5 with an AstroTech 106mm f6.5 triplet and copied the 31mm Nagler to give me a 3.6 degree fov and bingo, I was hooked. I don't suppose I will ever tire of it until the eyes give out finally!

Well done and thanks if you made it this far!! I couldn't seem to stop typing

Images

1) Sumerian 14" Alkaid in the Mondeo boot

2) Above scope now hidden

3) Thinktank Airport Accelerator packed with TS72mm and kit

4) Sea horizon looking south from near Shrinkle Haven beach

5) Sumerian setup

6) Observing location, Shrinkle Haven beach car park

7) Observing location, 20 mins or so from Saundersfoot where we are staying

😎 Stu, Sumerian and the Milky Way. It doesn't get better than this

[andrew63]

Stunning report Stu - there's a lovely youth hostel in Manobier, right on the coast. 

andrew

[John]

What a great report Stu with wonderful photos to illustrate it 

I think I can honestly say that observing the Veil Nebula has provided some of the highlights of my visual astronomy activity over the past decade in scopes from 70mm and upwards.

It's really nice to read about others experiences with it as well

Lovely part of the world, Pembrokeshire. We spend a great week in that area last Summer

 

[Stu]

9 minutes ago, andrew63 said:

Stunning report Stu - there's a lovely youth hostel in Manobier, right on the coast. 

andrew

Thanks Andrew. I drove past the Youth Hostel just before getting to the carpark near Shrinkle Haven.

[Stu]

9 minutes ago, John said:

Lovely part of the world, Pembrokeshire. We spend a great week in that area last Summer

It is gorgeous down here I agree. So many fabulous beaches and such beautiful coastline, castles and much more. I came here alot as a child so it's lovely to bring Lorna down here now. Even Suzie is enjoying it and she doesn't really 'do' holidays in the UK 🤣

[scarp15]

Lawnmower that's a new one. Fabulous location and report Stu, the joker card paid off. Low cloud over Sagittarius is a bit frustrating (also had encountered this myself at the weekend), yet a very successful session and particularly interesting and descriptive contrast between the 14" and later, wide field set ups on the Veil.  We had a holiday at Saundersfoot a few years ago, a favourite with my Wife who used to go on family holidays there. Walked much of the Pembrokeshire coastal path, took along 10.5x70 binoculars that I used from our apartment balcony that overlooked the sea, still remember M11 in particular composed in the expansive starfield. Lovely profile picture with you set against the milky way.  

[Stu]

12 minutes ago, scarp15 said:

Walked much of the Pembrokeshire coastal path,

I guess you may well have walked past this site then as it is on the coast path. Lovely place.

[Littleguy80]

Awesome report, Stu. The Sumerian working great under dark skies. It’s nice how knowledge is passed around on here. John introduces to the Veil which you went on to introduce me to. The NAN too. I still remember you posting tips and SkySafari screenshots to help me on my way to finding it with my 130mm scope  

[Captain Scarlet]

Your first few objects exactly matched my own last night at likely the same time from Sw Ireland in my 12”, showing my brother in law some things he’d never seen before: M13, M92, M11, M57, M27 and the two blue/yellow doubles...

very nice account

Magnus

[Stu]

11 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

Awesome report, Stu. The Sumerian working great under dark skies. It’s nice how knowledge is passed around on here. John introduces to the Veil which you went on to introduce me to. The NAN too. I still remember you posting tips and SkySafari screenshots to help me on my way to finding it with my 130mm scope  

Thanks Neil

Good innit!👍👍

[andrew63]

Looking a bit more closely at that Milky Way image, just to the right of your head looks like the Lagoon nebula, the Star Cloud, Omega and Eagle nebula in almost a straight line. I viewed those objets last night in the ST80, the Eagle nebula was a lovely sight.

andrew

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, andrew63 said:

Looking a bit more closely at that Milky Way image, just to the right of your head looks like the Lagoon nebula, the Star Cloud, Omega and Eagle nebula in almost a straight line. I viewed those objets last night in the ST80, the Eagle nebula was a lovely sight.

andrew

I think you are right Andrew. The clouds were moving around down there and I find cloud dodging frustrating so did not manage to view them, particularly given my mirror flopping issues. Should have had the refractor out and I might have done better with these. The Eagle is indeed lovely, as is the Lagoon. Glad you got good views.

[jetstream]

Great report Stu!

[Paul73]

Splendid write up Stu! The Veil is the gift that keeps on giving. Great little / big Dob too. Can’t believe how small it packs down.

Paul

[Piero]

Great report, Stu! Looks like you had a fantastic time!

Also glad that the new dobson is working well for you.

[JeremyS]

Very nice report, @Stu

Do you plan to get the lawnmower out this weekend? 🙂 

[Stu]

3 hours ago, JeremyS said:

Very nice report, @Stu

Do you plan to get the lawnmower out this weekend? 🙂 

Afraid not Jeremy. Back on Sunday, might get the 130P out on Saturday night just at the cottage as it is forecast to be clear and the skies are pretty good even here, although more obstructed by buildings. Could always pop down to the harbour wall I guess.

[FenlandPaul]

Super report, Stu - and that Stu+MW is very much the icing on the cake - fantastic!! 

[domstar]

Great report. Very enjoyable and helpful. Never tried the NAN. Can't wait to give it a go. It might be a toughy for my gear. That Sumerian looks beautiful but that folding chair would kill my back pretty quickly.

[Littleguy80]

23 minutes ago, domstar said:

Great report. Very enjoyable and helpful. Never tried the NAN. Can't wait to give it a go. It might be a toughy for my gear. That Sumerian looks beautiful but that folding chair would kill my back pretty quickly.

I had the NAN in my 80mm Frac last night with an OIII filter. You can do it  

[domstar]

13 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

I had the NAN in my 80mm Frac last night with an OIII filter. You can do it  

Cheers. Hope my UHC holds up. Up at 1.40am to fly home from hols this morning. It's a gorgeous night but I've decided to chill with the wife. Part of me thinks I'm not hardcore enough 🙂.

[Star101]

Very nice read Stu. It was as though I was there with you. 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Dave

Edited August 31, 2019 by Star101

[Stu]

2 hours ago, domstar said:

That Sumerian looks beautiful but that folding chair would kill my back pretty quickly.

The Sumerian is great, it certainly has its compromises but there is nothing that comes close in terms of portable aperture.

I didn't observe in the chair, I was mainly either standing or sitting on the ground!

[Stu]

43 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

I had the NAN in my 80mm Frac last night with an OIII filter. You can do it  

Yep, it looked great in the 72mm, it's all about the skies, not the scope!

[Marvin Jenkins]

Inspired. That's the kind of astronomy that makes me try harder. I haven't been to the coast yet for astronomy, but that report has made up my mind. Thank you Stu.

Marvin