CCTV IR camera pointing at my OBS

[kirkster501]

I have installed CCTV around my house and made sure that I have a camera pointed onto my OBS to keep an eye on things (and also to see flips/slews from inside the house on my iPad  ).

Could this cause an issue with imaging and observing do you think?  You can see the lenses on my TEC and FSQ whilst they were imaging so the IR LEDS definitely penetrating into the tubes of the scopes.

Whaddayareckon folks?

[Gina]

You might have a problem with imaging - particularly red and Ha.

[david_taurus83]

Imaging, very likely. The CCTV cameras probably use the same sensors as us! See how much they pick up! Can you switch the IR lamps off while imaging?

[JamesF]

I'd expect problems, too.  Turning them off whilst you're imaging (or perhaps erecting some kind of screen?) definitely sounds like a plan.

James

[Yawning Angel]

I’ve tracking down a low lux ’Starlight’ CCTV camera, used for colour at night in commercial premises. Since it’s never pitch black, I’m hopeful it’ll do the job without IR. 

[Gina]

Well, the best of luck!  If it's dark enough for astronomy it'll need an astro camera and many seconds exposure not 1/50th or even 1/25th sec.

[Yawning Angel]

The stats seem in favour of it working:

Moonless, overcast night sky : 0.0001 lx

Moonless clear night sky with airglow : 0.002 lx

Full moon on a clear night : 0.05–0.3 lx

Camera spec:

Colour : 0.0069 lx

Mono : 0.0008 lx

I’m under class5/6 sky, so I’m hopeful it might have some advantages ?

[DaveL59]

43 minutes ago, Yawning Angel said:

I’ve tracking down a low lux ’Starlight’ CCTV camera, used for colour at night in commercial premises. Since it’s never pitch black, I’m hopeful it’ll do the job without IR. 

I've several starvis/starlight cctv cameras and to be honest, while you can get an image if there is some light, it gets pretty grainy/noisy as light level drops to darkness esp since its running in colour mode. Switching to black and white helps if the camera has that option but again you're fighting noise. IR helps improve the image quality but obviously can affect imaging if your imager is IR sensitive, tho if it has an IRcut filter you'd be OK unless the IR source is close to within the field of view, same as a bright torch pointing at you. I thought astro cameras tended to have IR filters so maybe you'd be OK using IR illuminators for the security cameras given the caveat already mentioned.

I was thinking about adapting one of the spare mini cameras to see if it'd be any use for astro imaging, being fitted with a 1080P sony IMX291 starvis sensor, tho mine are all IP ones which would be a pain, tho they can record to SD also. Am thinking along the lines of short video and then post process via image stacking apps, might try it one day when I've had more time observing and feel ready to give it a go, however I'll probably find these are a little limited by the cctv features such as motion detect etc.

[Yawning Angel]

Thinking about the OPs issue a little more: perhaps an IR source in the Obs itself and turn off the IR illumination from the camera, then it’s not glaring down the barrel?

[Gina]

That sounds sensible.

[DaveL59]

might help, but it'd need to be low power inside the obs else everything would be very overexposed to the CCTV camera looking down on it. Maybe mount the IR source lower down so its not hitting the scope lenses but then you probably put the inside of the obs into shadow. Will be a case of experimenting to find the best placement really, assuming of course that the IR source isn't built into the camera in which case you're kinda stuck with it as-is. If the camera has smart-IR then it'll lower the light output to improve the image quality which may reduce the impact, but that's not possible with external IR sources that I've seen so far.

[Gina]

You could get several IR LEDs and mount them around the scope room so as to light the area but not point into the scope.

[SteveA]

Some pointers here...

https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/best-ip-camera-for-low-light-without-ir-leds.33110/

[tomato]

Interesting thread, the  @tomato @Tomatobro imminent dome project will use lasers to keep the dome aperture aligned with where the scope is pointing, presumably no issues with this when imaging, as the light paths will be restricted?

[Tomatobro]

Moths flying around the scope will reflect the ir. My problem is a bit bigger with the bats chasing them for dinner. But not in the depths of winter

[Jonk]

I had a domed CCTV camera with IR LEDs in my previous roll off roof obsy, and this light washed out the guidescope camera, not entirely but it was very noticeable.

The guidescope didn't have any filters in it, once I get up and running again, I'll use a red filter for the guidescope to reduce scintillation but I digress...

Depending on the filters used for imaging you may be ok, but my advice would be leave the IR LEDs on when you're not imaging, and turn them off when you are.