Software advice for a idiot please

[Paul73]

Hi Folks

I’m new to imaging. Like most visual guys who fancy dipping a toe into the murky world of imaging, I bought the hardware and completely failed to consider the software side of things!

On the gear side. I have an Astro Modded Canon 650d, 1xField flatterer, SW ED72, Tracking EQ5 and a very good laptop.

Software - ????? Seriously confused ????? I need to capture & stack and I’ll need to process. I have no processing experience and am a complete idiot when it comes to IT. Although, I build complex financial and schedule models at work. I don’t mind chucking a tenner a month at Adobe if it is really really worth it. 

What would be a good plac to start?

Paul

[Ronclarke]

I now use APT, I've tried other software but this is the best (and easiest) I found..

[carastro]

If you want something really simple and free for capture, you can use Canon Utility for image capture (software that comes with the Canon camera).  Having said that APT is excellent, but if you struggle with IT it might take a little bit of getting your head around it.   There are lots of extra tools in APT like dithering. 

Which reminds me, you haven't mentioned guiding above, you'll need to factor that in or you will be stuck with very short exposures. 

Free stacking software is DSS, but you'll need to find out what settings work the best.

As regards post processing, I have only used Photoshop.  For AP you don;t need the latest version of PS, anything from CS2 upwards will work fine, I use CS3 and it's perfectly fine for my needs.  See if you can pick up a 2nd hand PS. 

Carole 

 

[Paul73]

Thanks Carole

I’m staying away from guiding at the moment. My mount isn’t cleaver enough (and it is one more thing to go wrong). Hopefully, I’ll learn learn the ropes with this simple budget setup before graduating up the £££££?

Paul

[Adreneline]

Hi Paul,

I would go with Astro Pixel Procressor for calibrating, stacking and processing; if you don't wish to purchase you can rent to see if it suits you.

PHD2 is free and will meet your guiding needs but you will need a guide camera/scope.

It's not free but I am a huge fan of BackYardEoS for image acquisition; BYEoS integrates seamlessly with PHD2 - I'm sure it is cheaper now than when I bought it!

You will also need to go with the free ASCOM/EQMOD (or an equivalent) to control your mount.

Affinity Photo offers an alternative to Photoshop; others swear by GIMP (free).

Good luck!

Adrian

[carastro]

Quote

 would go with Astro Pixel Procressor for calibrating, stacking and processing; if you don't wish to purchase you can rent to see if it suits you.

PHD2 is free and will meet your guiding needs but you will need a guide camera/scope.

It's not free but I am a huge fan of BackYardEoS for image acquisition; BYEoS integrates seamlessly with PHD2 - I'm sure it is cheaper now than when I bought it!

You will also need to go with the free ASCOM/EQMOD (or an equivalent) to control your mount.

Affinity Photo offers an alternative to Photoshop; others swear by GIMP (free).

Good luck!

As the original poster said he wasn't good with IT, isn't this a bit too complex.   I have never used APP Though I hear it is good, but watched a tutorial on it once and thought it looked far from straight forward. 

Also there is no necessity to use EQMod, it's a pig to install if you're not IT savvy, needs extra USB ports.  I have been using the handset for years with no problems.  (I can use EQMod, but as stated above found it a nightmare to install - so many bits and com ports etc etc, )but don't tend to use it because of the USB port availability and hubs I have found work when they feel like it).

Carole 

 

[Paul73]

APD is only £18! I’ll have a play with the trial version. Often, a lot of the cost for software is in making it idiot proof - see thread title...

Paul

[Dr_Ju_ju]

As you are using a Canon camera, I'd second BackyardEos. For a basic, connect to camera, take pictures, it's easy to use.

Yes, it can be more complicated, with ASCOM hook-ups, to the mount\focuser\phd2 etc. but they can be added later and integrated as and when you feel more confident.

[happy-kat]

The book Dark Ark Magic Bullet will help your processing learning curve.

I use DSS, StarTools and mix of paintshoppro (GIMP is similar)

[PeterCPC]

+1 for Bye and APP. Affinity Photo is good for post processing.

Peter

[carastro]

To be honest, APT and BYEOS are good, but if Peter wants to start really simply, I find the Canon Utility that comes with the camera is quite adequate for imaging.  You can't dither with it, but you can execute live view on the laptop and set up a timer.  I often use it and it's free.  As you want to dip your feet in and get used to things gradually this would be a simple way to get started. 

Then add the other programmes once you feel confident.

Some screen shots of Canon Utility

 

I have an old "How to image with a DSLR" page on my website which many people have found useful.

https://sites.google.com/site/caroleastroimaging/home/how-to-image-with-a-dslr

Carole 

 

[Paul73]

Thanks Carole. I’ve just been browsing your excellent website. You write exceptionally clearly. It is a knack that few of us posses. Including most of the highly educated, highly paid analysts at work! They complain bitterly when I send their reports back; telling them to address their sloppy writing. Possibly a case of Pot & Kettle, but they will thank me one day...

Paul

[stash_old]

2 hours ago, carastro said:

EQMod, it's a pig to install if you're not IT savvy, needs extra USB ports

It doesn't need extra ports - it uses 1 com port,as does nearly all other Mount/PC software interfaces. This  is provided by  USB Adapter/Ascom now because modern PC/Laptops etc dont normally come with what used to be called RS232(COM) port. But Ascom Alpaca has gone some way to change this but is new.

Once set up EQMOD is an excellent piece of software that give users greater control/accuracy over handsets -PLUS you can site yourself in a "warm room"

But I totally agree with @carastro  its a pig for "users" to set up and maintain (when M/S change things or you move your device to antoher  port )-  I say this very quietly because the last time I said this I received lots of flak from the Ascom developers. ?

Another vote for APT (did use BYEOS) which is very very simple to use and install - as easy as Canon Utilities IMO. You can add Mount Control,Guiding and Plate Solving options later as you progress (demo version is free but doesn't contain Mount Control,Guiding and Plate Solving - if I remember it right) .

The only caveat on APT is it seems to be moving away from DSLR (e.g. Initially adding CCD only for Indigo) and not implementing "Scheduling" - due later now - maybe. Plus the 18 Euro initial charge and 6 Euro/yr , there after, support (which you dont have to have) is a "steal". Support is 2nd to none IMO.

IMHO don't keep changing software take the extra time to learn the basics with whatever you choose but go with something that has a longer life and more options o start with - you will want to use something like APT later so better to start with that now - lets face it all forms of Astro is a steep learning curve     Plus there is plenty of great help here who have already done it ?

[carastro]

Quote

It doesn't need extra ports - it uses 1 com port,as does nearly all other Mount/PC software interfaces. This  is provided by  USB Adapter/Ascom 

Mine definitely needs it's own USB port.

currently I have 3 USB ports on my laptop

1. Guide camera

2. Imaging camera

3. electronic filterwheel

If there is something new available other than a USB hub that I can use, I'd be grateful if you could explain that in simple terms.  However I don't have an up to date laptop, I am using a W7 laptop. 

My experience of using a hub is it will work fine one day, then I start up the set up not having unplugged anything from the last session, and perhaps the Software can't find the guide camera but everything else works.  So I switch off, connect the guide camera, plug everything else in and the filterwheel won't connect.  I just get fed up in the end and unplug EQmod and plug the handset back in and all works fine then. 

Thanks

Carole 

[Dr_Ju_ju]

USB hubs like everything need to be quality devices, not the cheaper junk....

I use StarTech.com devices for both USB 2.0 and 3.0 i.e.

https://www.startech.com/uk/Cards-Adapters/USB-2/Hub/Mountable-Rugged-Industrial-7-Port-USB-Hub~ST7200USBM

https://www.startech.com/uk/Cards-Adapters/USB-3.0/Hubs/~ST7300USBME

Granted they are not cheap, but what price peace of mind, reliability & repeatability....

 

[DaveS]

Well, I'm not exactly an IT type but managed to get EQMod running on my old W7 lappie. For planetarium I use Cartes du Ciel, While back in the day I used APT and DSS. I then moved to AstroArt 5 (Now I think there's V7 on the site) for capture, stacking and post.

I will agree with Julian, cheap USB hubs cause more problems than anything else. Fortunately the new ASI cameras have hubs built in, as do the SX Trius CCD cameras.

[Jkulin]

Paul, lets get something right, there are no idiots on here, just people with more knowledge than others, so don't knock yourself!

I went down the imaging route nearly 4 years ago, originally with a Nikon D2X and using a remote release, I had some fun and learned a lot, especially about guiding and equipment.

I then discovered Back Yard Nikon and with a new to me Nikon D800 progressed to better quality imaging and an automated process, Back Yard Nikon was Great and as a few have mentioned Back Yard EOS is by the same company, superb.

When I progressed onto cooled CCD's and Filter wheels I discovered Astro Photography Tools developed with all users in mind by Yoddha https://www.ideiki.com/astro/Download.aspx

APT is a very friendly intuitive piece of software for about £20 and with a free download of PHD2 for guiding then you are equipped to tackle the universe ?

As you progress you will find your requirements change, but seriously with those two bits of software you won't go wrong.

HTH

[carastro]

Quote

StarTech.com devices for both USB 2.0 

I have one of these and still have the same problem.  Changed my laptop thinking it was my old laptop that was the problem, and still getting the same problem.  In fact it seems to be less problematic on cheaper hubs.

Basically on the Startech one, one day it will work fine, all four lights on.  Next imaging session, only 1 or two lights will come on and those with no lights don't work. 

I got a chum to look at it when he visited me, who had been using one of my cheaper hubs successfully, and he could see exactly the problem but could not fathom it. 

Carole 

 

[stash_old]

6 hours ago, carastro said:

Mine definitely needs it's own USB port.

currently I have 3 USB ports on my laptop

1. Guide camera

2. Imaging camera

3. electronic filterwheel

If there is something new available other than a USB hub that I can use, I'd be grateful if you could explain that in simple terms.  However I don't have an up to date laptop, I am using a W7 laptop. 

My experience of using a hub is it will work fine one day, then I start up the set up not having unplugged anything from the last session, and perhaps the Software can't find the guide camera but everything else works.  So I switch off, connect the guide camera, plug everything else in and the filterwheel won't connect.  I just get fed up in the end and unplug EQmod and plug the handset back in and all works fine then. 

Thanks

Carole 

But he was asking to do an initial simple set up and I was comparing using APT to using the Canon Util which of course dont have guiding or anyhing else - i.e. Like for Like.

To use APT, as with the Canon Util, you just need 1 USB port - for the camera and both will auto detect the Camera in most cases LOL - so non of the messy "COM" stuff which I agree can be misleading to anyone ?.

About everything else you are 100% correct - you need extra USB ports if your PC doesn't have enough free ports.

They only difference between us is that, IMO, he should start simply BUT with a piece of true Astro software  that is able to expand ,e.g. APT/BYEOS, without going thru the whole learning process again which he would if he started with Canon Utils - In the end his choice ?

 

 

[Paul73]

All good advice. Fortunately, the recommendations are not too much of an outlay and have trial options to play with. The Canon utility will get me started while I learn the more complex (for me) Astro stuff. 

In the visual Astro world, the newbie who buys simple and not too big, gets the most enjoyment.

Paul