Beginner scope review. Which scope?

[Chris]

4 hours ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

Thanks for starting this  thread Chris.

I have been asked to give a 45 minute talk on beginners scopes and what you can expect to see at a whole day conference being held in July to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11.

I like the beginners statement made by FLO on their website - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes.html

For my part I still believe that the best beginners scope for the money is the Heritage 130P

That's great Mark, what an honour to be asked to speak! I struggle a bit with public speaking so I take my hat of to you, and hope all goes well  

I too like this statement, sums it up nicely really and reflects my childhood experience. And I agree totally that the Heritage 130p is the best bang for the buck beginner scope, it's just that there is so much info out there on them already. There would be limited value in adding another review I feel. I'm kind of looking for an unsung hero, or a forgotten hero perhaps. Or even a new to the block hero. 

I 

[Chris]

1 hour ago, Littleguy80 said:

With @FLO‘s kind offer of a loan scope and your budget to buy a scope, you could perhaps have a Refractor or Reflector compare and contrast of the benefits of each. Something like the Heritage and a similar priced frac. We all know that it’s about the right tool for the job. There’s no golden bullet when it comes to scope designs. 

Sounds good on the face of it Neil to buy one and borrow one and compare, but as I'm gearing up to move house I might get a bit of a stare from SWMBO if I suddenly bring two scopes back into the house lol

I can get away with one for now. she knows I need something to tinker with even if it's a small one. (ok that sounds a bit wrong) 

 

[Chris]

Ok, thanks for the input everyone. It's focused my mind on what I should be looking out for, but I'll read through the comments again just to be sure. 

Time to go window shopping on the FLO site armed with this info. I'll be back with a short list before I discuss this further with FLO and order (still not decided if I'm buying or borrowing) 

Cheers  

[Chris]

I'll just leave these here for your perusal ?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/sky-watcher-capricorn-70-eq1-refractor.html 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/celestron-powerseeker-114eq-with-motor-drive-and-phone-adapter.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/skywatcher-skymax-90-eq1.html  (I did find one in budget!)

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-explorer-130p.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/celestron-inspire-90mm-az-short-refractor.html (interesting design, is this pushing the budget for a beginner?)

 

These are all from the FLO beginner page, apart from the 90mm Mak EQ1.  

Votes below please:

 

 

[Grant]

The powerseeker and inspire models are new so probably few or no reviews for these yet so if you wanted to do something that’s not been covered to much before, these would probably be good choices...

[Chris]

10 minutes ago, Grant said:

The powerseeker and inspire models are new so probably few or no reviews for these yet so if you wanted to do something that’s not been covered to much before, these would probably be good choices...

The power seeker does look interesting, it's a spherical mirror, but at f/8 that shouldn't matter, and it comes with a motor drive and a smart phone adaptor. I could see a beginner being attracted to this. 

The inspire looks un orthodox design wise. Great from a review point of view I should imagine, there will be so many talking points.  I think if my kids were choosing, this would be the one. Maybe I should choose it for that reason alone?

I'd be happy to use and review either of these  

[Louis D]

If you're going to do a proper beginner's review, you need to find a true beginner as a guinea pig to help review the scopes.  You list a bunch of EQ mounts above.  It would be interesting to observe a beginner trying to come to terms with one as compared to an alt-az mount.  Or comparing a beginner's reaction to a 6" Dob vs a tripod mounted refractor or CAT.

[Cosmic Geoff]

My local astronomy club has a couple of small long-ish reflectors on light equatorial mounts looking unloved in their outreach collection. Two of my friends have similar instruments that are not being used.  So I would suggest reviewing the Powerseeker 114 to cover telescopes that get bought and not used.

[Chris]

6 hours ago, Louis D said:

If you're going to do a proper beginner's review, you need to find a true beginner as a guinea pig to help review the scopes.  You list a bunch of EQ mounts above.  It would be interesting to observe a beginner trying to come to terms with one as compared to an alt-az mount.  Or comparing a beginner's reaction to a 6" Dob vs a tripod mounted refractor or CAT.

Louis, I'm affraid I don't have any other scopes for comparison at the moment. I idea was to buy a cheap beginner scope to review and use for a few months until I've moved house and I'm in a position to build my kit up again. I can't really do a comparison between a Dob, a CAT, and Frac at the moment for this reason.

 I'm also reluctant to do an Heritage 130 mini Dob review, as I'm sure you'll agree there are a lot out there already! and this is the only Dob in budget other than the 100p which I've literally just sold. 

I'm buying or borrowing a scope to review from FLO, maybe I should ask them what they would like me to review?

 As Grant said above, it makes sense to review a scope that doesn't have many reviews. 

I don't mind about the mount type, I just listed the beginner scopes from the FLO site in budget which weren't the 130p and 100p mini Dobs. I lot just happen to be on EQ1 and EQ2 mounts, but the last Celestron inspire scope which looks aimed at kids is on an Alt/Az. 

Should I get that one if you think an EQ mount is too much for a beginner to learn In this day and age? 

EDIT: Should I stretch the budget and get one of those basic tablet control scopes like an Astro FI? Would that be more relevant for today's beginner. I note there isn't much out there on these scopes. I'm just wondering if there is a reason for this? 

They do look aimed at beginners though. The cheapest one is the Astro Fi 90 at £295, but if FLO are willing to lend for review?

I'm honestly looking for input, but can't have multiple scopes at the moment I'm afraid, although finding beginners isn't a problem  

 

 

 

 

[Chris]

7 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

My local astronomy club has a couple of small long-ish reflectors on light equatorial mounts looking unloved in their outreach collection. Two of my friends have similar instruments that are not being used.  So I would suggest reviewing the Powerseeker 114 to cover telescopes that get bought and not used.

Poor things, but you've got to ask why they don't get used? An honest review would uncover this I guess. 

[Littleguy80]

9 minutes ago, Lockie said:

Should I get that one if you think an EQ mount is too much for a beginner to learn In this day and age?

I think that’s a really good idea. My kids all love tech. I remember my eldest daughter being fascinated by my phone being mounted to eyepiece to take pictures of the Moon. If I’d have a go to mount and used my phone to navigate around they would have lost their minds. It also gives an opportunity to talk about the advantages of observing without tech. 

For the record my first mount was an EQ2. It was a bit of a learning curve but it certainly didn’t stop me developing a love for astronomy. 

[Ricochet]

How about the 1145p Avant? We don't see many reviews for the 114s because most people jump straight to 130 and the mount itself is also new.

Alternatively, you could just look through eBay listings and see what people are selling as this should give a good idea of the scopes people are buying and then struggling with (and hence looking for Youtube videos on). Picking up local scopes cheaply would be the most cost effective way of continuing the series (unless FLO loan you all the scopes).

[RobertI]

41 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

How about the 1145p Avant? We don't see many reviews for the 114s because most people jump straight to 130 and the mount itself is also new.

This is a really nice looking mount, not seen that before. Nice scope and mount combination. Would get my vote for a review. 

[Mark at Beaufort]

What a useful thread. Like Rob stated above I have never seen the 1145p Avant - what a great set up to have the advantage of both alt/az and eq on a nice 4.5" scope. In addition I have not seen the Celestron Inspire range before and the 90az looks an interesting buy. I also enjoyed the video.

So Chris I think you have a hard choice before you.

[happy-kat]

The aeromaster 90mm az refractor is cheaper then the aspire by a lot.

[Littleguy80]

The 1145 Avant looks good. Gives you a chance to talk about EQ was Alt/Az mounts too. Could be helpful given the comments on beginners struggling with EQ mounts 

[Alfian]

7 hours ago, Littleguy80 said:

The 1145 Avant looks good. Gives you a chance to talk about EQ was Alt/Az mounts too. Could be helpful given the comments on beginners struggling with EQ mounts 

I did a mini review/opinion on the Avant mount (in reviews) a while back and it's OK.I didn't dwell on the 114p so much because its been around in various combinations for a while. It is certainly a scope aimed at the beginner so fits the bill and an in depth review would no doubt be useful.

 

[Chris]

11 hours ago, Littleguy80 said:

I think that’s a really good idea. My kids all love tech. I remember my eldest daughter being fascinated by my phone being mounted to eyepiece to take pictures of the Moon. If I’d have a go to mount and used my phone to navigate around they would have lost their minds. It also gives an opportunity to talk about the advantages of observing without tech. 

For the record my first mount was an EQ2. It was a bit of a learning curve but it certainly didn’t stop me developing a love for astronomy. 

I'll take that as a vote for the Astro Fi 90 then. 

It's above the budget I set, but it is clearly built with beginners in mind. There are a few reviews out there, the main complaint being the wifi dropping out. I think disabling your home wifi from your device usually solves this problem though. I don't know if Celestron have resolved this issue yet, but I know of people that have solved it by adding a coil antenna to boost the signal from the mount.  

The tablet/phone tech aspect does fascinate me somewhat, and I guess this is how beginners of the future will enter the hobby. For this reason I'm going to short list it. despite the budget and there being some reviews out there.

I'll do a short short list and ask FLO to kindly decide.  

[Chris]

9 hours ago, happy-kat said:

The aeromaster 90mm az refractor is cheaper then the aspire by a lot.

30 quid cheaper. I looked at both the Celestron Astromaster 90mm AZ frac and the Celestron Aspire 90mm AZ Frac. The former has been on the market for a lot of years and the Aspire has only been out a year maybe? 

I thought there might be more value in reviewing the newer scope. I do need to revise my list to reflect only new scopes with the latest input, then I'll ask FLO to decide, if they will oblige?   

[Chris]

9 hours ago, Littleguy80 said:

The 1145 Avant looks good. Gives you a chance to talk about EQ was Alt/Az mounts too. Could be helpful given the comments on beginners struggling with EQ mounts 

I didn't think of that one, good thought! The mount looks very interesting. Not so sure about the f4.3 mirror with the supplied EP's though  It's a shame they don't have a slower achromat or Newt option considering the supplied EP's and the fact that the mount has a pier extension to allow for one. 

It's relatively new and there isn't much out there about these....it's going on the new short list  

[happy-kat]

I've seen a video on the new mount possibly it was on nature and astronomy channel

[Chris]

3 hours ago, Alfian said:

I did a mini review/opinion on the Avant mount (in reviews) a while back and it's OK.I didn't dwell on the 114p so much because its been around in various combinations for a while. It is certainly a scope aimed at the beginner so fits the bill and an in depth review would no doubt be useful.

 

Nice Ian, I thought that was really good discussing the issues and some fixes. The line about you rarely using it in EQ mode stuck with me, in my mind it would make more sense if the EQ mode had the option to be driven. Or in other words an SA mount with the ability to change to AZ mode. 

 

[happy-kat]

That's the az-gti mount but it is above your budget.

[Chris]

3 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

I've seen a video on the new mount possibly it was on nature and astronomy channel

I remember now, it's this one:

I've just re watched it. Kind of steals your thunder when you see such thorough reviews. 

Nice little mount though!

 

[Chris]

 

Revised short list focusing on new on the scene telescopes, aimed at beginners, rather than strictly about budget. 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-eq-avant/sky-watcher-skyhawk-1145ps-az-eq-avant.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/astro-fi-series-telescopes/celestron-astro-fi-90mm-refractor.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/inspire-series-telescopes/celestron-inspire-90mm-az-short-refractor.html 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/celestron-powerseeker-114eq-with-motor-drive-and-phone-adapter.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-skyhawk-1145ps-az-gte.html

 

These are more recent scopes with likely less reviews, and the mounts aren't all EQ as pointed out previously. Thoughts on the latest list please. Ones getting bought.

@FLO Please of course respond to this after the weekend if you wish (after all it is Saturday night), but I would really appreciate your thoughts on the above, and which to choose to review, if any of the above? thanks