Beginner scope review. Which scope?

[John]

Give your self a challenge Chris. See what you can do with this

 

[Chris]

6 hours ago, vlaiv said:

I would like to see Mak 90 - 102 reviewed.

It's often said that this scope is a bit of "specialist" type of scope that is good on lunar and planetary, and that it is lacking in wide field. With last part I can agree, but I never felt much "boxed in" by my 8" F/6 scope and it is just a tad shorter in focal length compared to those two scopes.

I wouldn't rule out a Mak, they are great and low maintenance scopes and super sharp for a compound scope. Although most of the 'beginner budget' I've set would be taken up on the OTA, and the budget should include a mount as well. 

[DavidJM]

2 hours ago, vlaiv said:

For some reason, most people in this thread think in terms: "what is the best beginner scope".

I think that OP had in mind something along the lines: "What would be a good beginner scope that is often overlooked, but would be worth having review on it as some people might purchase it based on some criteria that is important to them"?

Really good point!

[Chris]

9 minutes ago, John said:

Give your self a challenge Chris. See what you can do with this

 

I'm skipping forward just to answer this one John. NO!  

This reminds me, I was gifted something similar to one of these a few years back by a friends mum, in her words "it's a good one". 

My word, it was an handicap to eyesight! It was unusable mount wise and I could see more with my eyes than through the scope!

[Chris]

6 hours ago, Gfamily said:

I had a 102 Mak as it was the best I could afford at the time. Yes, good for moon and planets, but both the FoV and the aperture were too small for most DSO objects, and overall I found it a disappointment. 

FOV - because when you are looking at open clusters, it's a bit like not seeing the wood for the trees - all you see is a lot of stars, you don't see them as 'a cluster'. Example - the Double Cluster isn't - because you can only see one at a time. 

Aperture  - unless you are in a very dark location, there's just not enough light gathering capability to make extended objects stand out. 

I have since picked up a second hand 127mm Mak and it is much better in terms of aperture - though not so much in terms of FoV.  It is my 'holiday' scope, as it is compact enough to take with us.

 

I have a feeling we are going to be leaning towards a Newt for it's affordability, relatively large aperture, and wider FOV for context, plus it's easier to find objects with a wider field of view for a beginner. 

it makes me think of the Heritage 130p again, but there is so much info out there already for that scope.

I kind of want to see an achromat refactor short listed - Jack of all trades FOV wise, no maintenance, and it looks like what a beginner would expect  a scope would look like. The last point shouldn't matter, but I'm wondering if it actually does? 

 

[Chris]

6 hours ago, DavidJM said:

some good true comparisons of what you would see across different options would also help, plus size, ease of set up, transport etc. take away the astronomy expert and aim at know nothing but enthusiastic; also what you get with scope in terms of eyepieces/ finders - too often reviewers go for "you'll need to upgrade the eyepieces to get the best out of" all good and true but if I can't stretch past £150 and everyone says you'll need to replace and spend more then someone just thinking of starting out may just pass when in reality you can drive the passion for the hobby with what you get in the box to start out

 

Good points, David. 

I don't own any scopes in the flesh at the moment, so can't do real time comparisons, but I've owned so many scopes over the years, sometimes the same scope a number of times (don't ask I have a problem), it shouldn't be much of a problem to be able to talk about some of these things from memory at the very least. 

I will do my best to be mindful and put myself in the shoes of a beginner. 

The point about the eyepieces is valid, the classic 25 and 10mm modified achromat lenses. and of course as we all know the 25mm isn't bad but the 10mm needs throwing at a wall. The only thing that will improve the 10mm if we are ruling out upgrades is a slow scope. A fast f/5 Newt will just bring out the lateral chromatic aberration. 

with the above point in mind, maybe a slower f7- f8 Newt, or a 90mm f10 frac?  

 

[happy-kat]

There is that to re looks.

I like the idea of a telescope with legs as the hobby grows and a refractor particularly a short one is very portable and can serve other purposes. I'm pretty attached to the ST80.

[Chris]

6 hours ago, vlaiv said:

Problem with beginner scopes is that they are usually small, and that is a big minus for beginners.

Experienced observer will put to excellent use even small aperture, but beginners need to gain experience in observing to progress to this stage. That is something you can't learn by reading about it, one actually needs to spend time under stars to hone their observing skills.

I personally wasn't hooked until a saw Saturn through a 6" reflector when I was teenager. the 60mm store bought frac I had age 7 didn't do anything for me at the time.

Now days I can just enjoy the optical quality of what I'm seeing rather than the extent of what I'm seeing. I realised sometime ago I'm more into the optics and kit than the things that I'm trying to look at and image.    

[Chris]

6 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

What about a supermarket 70mm refractor? Yes, I know, but... I re-started my interest in astronomy with a 70x700 refractor kit from Lidl (see my sig pic) which cost about £70.  Some people have posted favourable results with these, but  my eventual conclusion some years later was that the tripod and mount were worth the trivial price on their own (not that this meant I liked an EQ-2 clone much) and the accessories were all okay, it was just the objective lens that was rubbish. Maybe I got a Friday afternoon one. 

I think I also got a Friday afternoon store bought frac all those years ago. I think they only work on Friday's and they are already really tired in the QA department  

[Marmo720]

49 minutes ago, Lockie said:

I'm skipping forward just to answer this one John. NO!  

This reminds me, I was gifted something similar to one of these a few years back by a friends mum, in her words "it's a good one". 

My word, it was an handicap to eyesight! It was unusable mount wise and I could see more with my eyes than through the scope!

Lol. I wouldn't rule that one out. I was loaned a similar scope from my school when in my teens and I could see Saturn. Mind blown!! 

[Chris]

5 hours ago, Littleguy80 said:

I'd very much agree with the Heritage 130P. I had 130M on EQ2 as my first scope which did me proud. I always found the reports from the really experienced observers using 130P's really inspiring. People who owned big dobs going out and having great sessions with a scope that was close to mine. I think it was a big factor in me getting the deep sky observing bug. I started to look for things I may otherwise have not believed could be seen in my beginner scope. It also makes a great travel scope so it really is a scope for life, even if aperture fever leads to further scope purchases.

There is a lot of support for the Heritage 130p so far in this thread alone. It's already well known as a great beginner scope, and there are lots of reviews out there for it. Maybe the 130p mirror in another guise, but I'm not sure about adding another Heritage review unless people think another review would help? 

[Chris]

3 hours ago, RolandKol said:

My vote goes for 130PDS!

 

Wonderful little scopes, I've had a few over the years. It would need a mount though, and the OTA takes up the budget   

[vlaiv]

I know, how about a real challenge?

Can you make one of these perform well?

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p685_TS-Optics-Megastar1550---150-1400-mm-beginner-telescope-on-EQ3-1-mount.html

Don't know if you will be able to get that sort of aperture for that kind of money, and we all know people like aperture

(it looks like you can after all, 6" GSO dob costs the same at TS)

 

 

[Chris]

5 hours ago, Marmo720 said:

How about the Skywatcher 130P-DS? I think it comes with adaptors for visual observing and can be used for astro-photography if that is required in the future. Would also be good to get into collimation with this scope as something to be aware of. 

As someone just coming back to the hobby, I think the 130P-DS holds a lot of value and would be good to know more about.

Do you have a link to your youtube channel? 

Hi Marmo, lovely scopes but a bit out of budget once you've added the mount for one. By scope review I mean everything needed for the beginner to get going. 

Here is my channel. It's a mix of photography and astronomy kit so far, but I need to narrow it down to just astronomy. That's the plan....and also get better at it   

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBTXZYuFWQ6lx51L4GeY0Lw/videos?view_as=subscriber

 

[Chris]

4 hours ago, John said:

Judging by the scopes that turn up at the "scope surgeries" that my astro society holds, the Celestron AstroMaster 130 EQ's seem to catch many beginners eyes and are a popular 1st "proper" scope purchase.

 

co-incidentally I thought about that one John. I'm a bit concerned by the fast spherical mirror though. I think you can get away with a spherical mirror at around f/8 at this aperture, but I wonder if the SW 130p version of this would be better as it has the parabolic mirror. 

[Chris]

45 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

There is that to re looks.

I like the idea of a telescope with legs as the hobby grows and a refractor particularly a short one is very portable and can serve other purposes. I'm pretty attached to the ST80.

That's an option, hadn't considered a short frac. Maybe a moderate focal length frac would be a compromise on chromatic aberration though. Having said this I don't think beginners mind CA as much.

I think chromatic aberration phobia grows with experience! 

[Littleguy80]

17 minutes ago, Lockie said:

There is a lot of support for the Heritage 130p so far in this thread alone. It's already well known as a great beginner scope, and there are lots of reviews out there for it. Maybe the 130p mirror in another guise, but I'm not sure about adding another Heritage review unless people think another review would help? 

With @FLO‘s kind offer of a loan scope and your budget to buy a scope, you could perhaps have a Refractor or Reflector compare and contrast of the benefits of each. Something like the Heritage and a similar priced frac. We all know that it’s about the right tool for the job. There’s no golden bullet when it comes to scope designs. 

[Chris]

2 hours ago, John said:

One subject that could do with a bit more "air time" is how to make the best of a less than optimum initial purchase, eg: bird-jones designs, 76mm newtonians and that sort of thing.

 

I'm bookmarking this as a future video idea. Thanks John  

[Chris]

33 minutes ago, Marmo720 said:

Lol. I wouldn't rule that one out. I was loaned a similar scope from my school when in my teens and I could see Saturn. Mind blown!! 

That's good to hear!  There is something very special about that mind blown moment which should be cherished.

To be fair, I think the plastic objective lens on mine was pretty scratched up lol 

[Marmo720]

18 minutes ago, Lockie said:

Hi Marmo, lovely scopes but a bit out of budget once you've added the mount for one. By scope review I mean everything needed for the beginner to get going. 

Here is my channel. It's a mix of photography and astronomy kit so far, but I need to narrow it down to just astronomy. That's the plan....and also get better at it   

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBTXZYuFWQ6lx51L4GeY0Lw/videos?view_as=subscriber

 

Ah yes you are right. Forgot it didn't come with mount.

Will subscribe to your channel. I had one for gaming a few years ago. Takes a lot of effort to keep focus and keep at it. Gave up once I got a job that paid! 

Hopefully you can keep going. 

[mikeDnight]

I bought my first scope at age 18 (1980), after seeing it in Dixon's window, without knowing anything about it or about telescopes in general. It was a 60mm Prinz Astral refractor and it looked beautiful. It cost £130 which was quite a sum for me back then. Only after I'd bought it did I begin to realize its capabilities, or lack of.  The outer packaging was covered in images of Moon, planets and galaxies. I never did see a galaxy through it, but it did give me my first view of the Sun, Moon, Jupiter and Saturn. Although it came with a screw in solar filter I never used it, as it also came with a solar projection screen; plus Patrick warned against screw in solar filters in one or both of the two astronomy books id read at the time - Observers Guide to Astronomy, and Guide To The Moon. I've still got all the sunspot drawings I made with the 60mm along with my early sketches of the Moon and Planets. Though small aperture, the 60mm Astral was sufficient to set me on the road to a passionate lifetime hobby, so we should never look down on small scopes as if they are incapable of inspiring a youngster, or even an adult.

About 16 years ago I bought a 70mm Meade refractor for my 9 year old son, and it wasn't cheap! It had an altazimuth mount with an encoder that sucked the life out of batteries. The diagonal gave three images and the mount was as stable as a jelly. How quality had plummeted when compared to the Japanese Astral! Although my Astral would have benefited greatly from better quality eyepieces, it was world's apart from the Meade. Today, Skywatcher offer some excellent beginners scopes at relatively low cost, and with reasonable eyepieces they could ignite a fire that can't be put out. Aperture isn't as important as it may seem, as even a small scope will give years of entertainment if the bug has bitten. If the bug hasn't bitten, then no amount of aperture will maintain the interest!

A small refractor of 80 to 90mm is an obvious choice, and the suggestion of a small aperture Mak Cass is a very good choice too, as both will not only show the Sun, Moon and Planets well, they will show all the Messier objects too. A small reflector such as the 130 Newt is also a good choice, but it might be an idea to try good quality eyepieces in whichever scope you choose, as well as the cheap and cheerful ones that come with the scope, as the eyepiece can transform a mediocre view into something very memorable.

[Marmo720]

6 minutes ago, Lockie said:

That's good to hear!  There is something very special about that mind blown moment which should be cherished.

To be fair, I think the plastic objective lens on mine was pretty scratched up lol 

Yep, it was incredible. It didn't have a mount so my two brothers had to hold it steady and point at Saturn. Brotherhood right there ?

At least mine had lenses I think Haha 

[Chris]

12 minutes ago, Marmo720 said:

Ah yes you are right. Forgot it didn't come with mount.

Will subscribe to your channel. I had one for gaming a few years ago. Takes a lot of effort to keep focus and keep at it. Gave up once I got a job that paid! 

Hopefully you can keep going. 

Thanks. It's harder than you think isn't it  I'm just working on a video entitled "If you could only own one telescope". I typed about 1500 words of prep for that one. 

Gaming channels are really popular, my boy has one of those for Minecraft. 

 

 

[Chris]

56 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

I bought my first scope at age 18 (1980), after seeing it in Dixon's window, without knowing anything about it or about telescopes in general. It was a 60mm Prinz Astral refractor and it looked beautiful. It cost £130 which was quite a sum for me back then. Only after I'd bought it did I begin to realize its capabilities, or lack of.  The outer packaging was covered in images of Moon, planets and galaxies. I never did see a galaxy through it, but it did give me my first view of the Sun, Moon, Jupiter and Saturn. Although it came with a screw in solar filter I never used it, as it also came with a solar projection screen; plus Patrick warned against screw in solar filters in one or both of the two astronomy books id read at the time - Observers Guide to Astronomy, and Guide To The Moon. I've still got all the sunspot drawings I made with the 60mm along with my early sketches of the Moon and Planets. Though small aperture, the 60mm Astral was sufficient to set me on the road to a passionate lifetime hobby, so we should never look down on small scopes as if they are incapable of inspiring a youngster, or even an adult.

About 16 years ago I bought a 70mm Meade refractor for my 9 year old son, and it wasn't cheap! It had an altazimuth mount with an encoder that sucked the life out of batteries. The diagonal gave three images and the mount was as stable as a jelly. How quality had plummeted when compared to the Japanese Astral! Although my Astral would have benefited greatly from better quality eyepieces, it was world's apart from the Meade. Today, Skywatcher offer some excellent beginners scopes at relatively low cost, and with reasonable eyepieces they could ignite a fire that can't be put out. Aperture isn't as important as it may seem, as even a small scope will give years of entertainment if the bug has bitten. If the bug hasn't bitten, then no amount of aperture will maintain the interest!

A small refractor of 80 to 90mm is an obvious choice, and the suggestion of a small aperture Mak Cass is a very good choice too, as both will not only show the Sun, Moon and Planets well, they will show all the Messier objects too. A small reflector such as the 130 Newt is also a good choice, but it might be an idea to try good quality eyepieces in whichever scope you choose, as well as the cheap and cheerful ones that come with the scope, as the eyepiece can transform a mediocre view into something very memorable.

Thanks for the in depth reply, Mike  I think you and @F15Rules would have a lot to reminisce about. if I remember rightly he also did the Dixon's window scope ogling thing. Those Japanese circle k  Kenko optics were ace. I've owned a couple of vintage fracs like these also in recent years and had a lot of fun with them.  I think you just got in with the good optics (1980), certainly by the time I was asking for a scope for xmas age 7 circa 1984 the quality was swapped out for plastic. I'll be honest and say I never even got a clear look at the Moon with my first scope, and gave up after about 10 outings with it until I reached my teens and bought a 6" Newt from Jessop's. I remember it was the biggest scope they had and boy did it deliver the goods. I was running around showing all my mates Saturn. I honestly couldn't believe what I was seeing. 

I therefore had a slightly different view regarding aperture from my initial experiences, not really knowing much about the quality of optics at the time. I now know that a smaller well figured refractor can compete with a larger reflector due to the increase in the contrast from no central obstruction and lower light loss etc.  I'm therefore leaning towards either a 114p/130p reflector or a 80/90mm refractor. As I'm aiming for around £150 I'll rule out the Mak, but only because they are little more expensive than a small reflector or achromat refractor. 

I will of course use my eyepieces as well as the supplied EP's. Although I take an earlier point regarding the reluctance to upgrade EP's straight the way after an initial outlay, so my plan is to see if there are any slower beginner scopes which can bring the best out of the usual supplied MA eyepieces. 

[Marmo720]

1 hour ago, Lockie said:

Thanks. It's harder than you think isn't it  I'm just working on a video entitled "If you could only own one telescope". I typed about 1500 words of prep for that one. 

Gaming channels are really popular, my boy has one of those for Minecraft. 

 

 

It really is. Kind of wish I carried on with mine but it was almost impossible with full time job. Good luck to your kid with the  Minecraft channel. It is good way to build focus with them I think.