3D Printers

[gian]

hi all

i have no experience with 3d printers other than the prusa I3 mk3s. at the time i did some research and ended up deciding to pay some more and get something that would work, and work out of the box, without spending weeks tweaking the 10000 paramenters of slicer and printer. 

bed leveling is extremely important. if leveling is not correct filament will not stick to the bed, or will be dragged by the nozzle. the difference between these two is really small, less than .1 mm . 

also, first layer is what will makes a difference between  a printed part or a mess. id suggest designing a 2x2cm rectangle half mm thick, place several on the bed, slice and print, looking at the quality of the first layer on the different areas of the bed. when filament is changed, run this print to be sure first layer is ok. 

if the first layer is not good, all the rest will fail. first layer must be spot on, and reliable. 

slower first layer  (10-14mm/sec) always improves quality of the prints, 

filament: i get always the same filament from the same supplier. no time to spend hours experimenting with different filaments to theoretically save a few cents.  and believe it or not, same filament of different color will require Z axis adjustment. i only print with PETG, PLA is only good for toys or prototyping, not for stuff that will be used for anything practical. 

bed preparation: spring steel bed with PEI surface. i use a thin layer of glue stick, put a few dabs here and there and spread it with a slightly wet sponge. tried lots of other methods. but this works. glue has to be fresh, or at least sponged up a little to make it wet before printing. 

i always print from sd card. it will work reliably, even though my computers run on linux and dont reboot by themselves. 

i NEVER print at night, with printer unattended. even though the prusa is very reliable, i live in a wooden house...

gmr

 

 

[saac]

I must admit I like the Ender's magnetic bed it gives excellent adherence without further preparation and it makes removal of the print a doddle. Having looked at the brackets I made for the K40 laser bed I can't see that I will have any problem with PLA for the majority of my practical applications (not really into toys and models); currently printing out a beam combiner again with PLA and so far all is well. 

Jim 

Edited October 20, 2019 by saac

[Gina]

12 minutes ago, gian said:

hi all

i have no experience with 3d printers other than the prusa I3 mk3s. at the time i did some research and ended up deciding to pay some more and get something that would work, and work out of the box, without spending weeks tweaking the 10000 paramenters of slicer and printer. 

bed leveling is extremely important. if leveling is not correct filament will not stick to the bed, or will be dragged by the nozzle. the difference between these two is really small, less than .1 mm . 

also, first layer is what will makes a difference between  a printed part or a mess. id suggest designing a 2x2cm rectangle half mm thick, place several on the bed, slice and print, looking at the quality of the first layer on the different areas of the bed. when filament is changed, run this print to be sure first layer is ok. 

if the first layer is not good, all the rest will fail. first layer must be spot on, and reliable. 

slower first layer  (10-14mm/sec) always improves quality of the prints, 

filament: i get always the same filament from the same supplier. no time to spend hours experimenting with different filaments to theoretically save a few cents.  and believe it or not, same filament of different color will require Z axis adjustment. i only print with PETG, PLA is only good for toys or prototyping, not for stuff that will be used for anything practical. 

bed preparation: spring steel bed with PEI surface. i use a thin layer of glue stick, put a few dabs here and there and spread it with a slightly wet sponge. tried lots of other methods. but this works. glue has to be fresh, or at least sponged up a little to make it wet before printing. 

i always print from sd card. it will work reliably, even though my computers run on linux and dont reboot by themselves. 

i NEVER print at night, with printer unattended. even though the prusa is very reliable, i live in a wooden house...

gmr

I beg to differ about PLA!  Perfectly good for many applications.  I use PETG where I have difficult overhangs or where more flexibility is required.  I print on scrupulously clean glass - no goo of any sort or PEI sheet.  I often run a long print overnight without issue.  I have several years experience of 3D printing and 3D printers.  I build my own.

[Thalestris24]

1 hour ago, Gina said:

rigid.ink was just about the very best but they are not selling filament any more. The Economy range from colorFabb in The Netherlands is a lot cheaper pro rata and very good.  You might have a problem accommodating their very large reels though.

They are on Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/rigid-ink-Reliable-Filament-Colours-Available/dp/B00WWK86UC

But a bit pricey!

I just ordered some more Creality PLA, but black. Hope it's ok!

Louise

[Mognet]

I've been using the own brand PLA from https://shop.3dfilaprint.com/ Seems nice and consistant so far

[Thalestris24]

5 minutes ago, Mognet said:

I've been using the own brand PLA from https://shop.3dfilaprint.com/ Seems nice and consistant so far

I've ordered some more of the Creality PLA - couldn't see it on Amazon before but it is there! I just hope it's as good as the white starter supplied with the printer. I'll have another go with the PLA+ when my patience has revived!  

Louise

[PeterW]

If there are gaps in the lines of the first layer or the nozzle is so close you barely get any extrusion then you need to tilt the bed to get it nice and even across the bed. I apologise for emptying the Clas Ohlsen stock of purple glue! Sometimes I also get through quite a few razor blades to get the prints separated. 
I have run 72hr builds before, the only issues are “print gremlins” and particle emission (cool printing of PLA minimises these with respect to other materials).

Peter

[Thalestris24]

2 minutes ago, PeterW said:

If there are gaps in the lines of the first layer or the nozzle is so close you barely get any extrusion then you need to tilt the bed to get it nice and even across the bed. I apologise for emptying the Clas Ohlsen stock of purple glue! Sometimes I also get through quite a few razor blades to get the prints separated. 
I have run 72hr builds before, the only issues are “print gremlins” and particle emission (cool printing of PLA minimises these with respect to other materials).

Peter

Yeah, I've got past the levelling thing now and the Creality PLA prints fine. I'll have to try the SUNLU PLA+ again when I have some time.

Louise

[Gina]

I find that with printing on clean glass the print pops off of its own accord when cooled down.

[Thalestris24]

7 minutes ago, Gina said:

I find that with printing on clean glass the print pops off of its own accord when cooled down.

I've been having trouble getting the parts off the magnetic sheet since I got it working again! #Can't Win Mind you, they are small parts so hard to get any leverage on them. They come off ok if I remove the mat and bend it - I guess you can't do that with glass!

Louise

[Gina]

Quite right!  But then, you don't have to.  I gather that removing the mat and bending it is the normal method.

[JamesF]

Patience and differential expansion rates seem to be your friend in this instance, though I've never used a mat such as yours.  I usually allow the bed to cool to roughly ambient temperature before disconnecting the control software and give it ten minutes or so, by which time the parts usually loosen themselves from the bed.

James

[Gina]

Mine doesn't take anything like that long.  Prints usually come off when the bed temperature comes down to about 40-50°C.

[Thalestris24]

Can you believe it - after ordering the Creality PLA I decided to have another go with the PLA+ - you guessed it, it was fine this time!! Not only that, I used the same temperature settings as for the PLA. Now I'm going to have an extra kg of filament... I suppose it keeps a long time unopened? The SUNLU was vacuum packed.

White Creality PLA left, Black SUNLU PLA+ right:

I've stayed up much too late - going to bed now.

Louise  

[JamesF]

Your experience isn't something I'd consider inconsistent with mine, Louise.  3D printers are not really a "consumer" item yet, and as such they need a bit of effort putting in before they will work reliably.  Once you've done a few prints and got the hang of how they behave it all becomes much easier.  At first that can mean a bit of head-scratching to work out why things work sometimes and not others, but slowly it all starts to fall into place.

James

[gian]

PLA mechanical qualities are too poor for prodicing parts that will see real world use.  PLA parts will shrink and warp just esposing them to the summer sun if of dark color

thing is, i have not found any reason to use PLA.  where i buy filament from, PLa and PETG cost the same, so why bother. 

3D printers are not really a "consumer" item yet,

i disagree good quality, well assembled printers will work right out of the box if the part to print is printable. 

there is no real reason why they should not. the problem imho is that some cheap printers do not have proper (or any) support and one has to figure out all printer calibration. settings and parameters. for comparison, you dont have to setup and calibrate the ink jet printer you buy, they are already properly designed, engineered and setup. else. printing would be next to impossible. 

of course one has to choose whether the printer is a tool that must produce useful parts, or a hobby in itself 

 as for leaving 3d printers unattended 

https://www.thissmarthouse.net/dont-burn-your-house-down-3d-printing-a-cautionary-tale/

just google 3d printer fire. 

PLA ignites at 340C, PET at 390. an extruder out of control will easily reach that. then there is the power supply. chinese built generic power supplies are not to be trusted, believe me. cheap caps and crappy transformers are perfect for starting fires. personally seen several of those burning, or blowing up, 

i personally wouldnt do it, expecially with self built, untested rigs. 

 

 

[Jkulin]

OK I have got to ask, what people think of this 2019 Prusa i3 3D Printer DIY Kit MK3 Heatbed MK8 Extruder,Large Structure Size

For £73.19 would it be a waste of time or worth trying?

I thought maybe they were just selling the bed but they have confirmed "Our printers just need to be assembled to be a complete printable."

 

[Chriske]

5 hours ago, Thalestris24 said:

 I suppose it keeps a long time unopened? The SUNLU was vacuum packed.

About the that guy(in the link above) almost burning his house down.
All printers are protected by a firmware setting. Meaning in case of overheating the printer shuts itself down immediately. I don't print ABS, so mine is set at a safe 290°C. Max temp I use on all my printers is 260°C.

About cheap(Chinese) power supplies.
ALL cheap and mid range printers do have Chinese power supplies on board. Myself I started printing in 2013. Together with a few friends we've built about 25 printers, maybe even more, we've lost count. We've always used these same power supplies, purchased from different companies. All of them (even from companies in the EU) were all marked 'Made in China'. These power supplies are protected by two big thermo-fuses. Never had any problems with these PSU's btw.

And yes, PLA can be stored unopened a long time Louise. Only in very damp locations you will have some problems. Only nylon needs to be stored in a sealed container.

Someone mentioned it before : learn about printing using one brand filament. Different brands filament needs slightly different slicer settings. As a beginner it is very difficult to recognise what to do in case of bad result.

[Chriske]

7 minutes ago, Jkulin said:

OK I have got to ask, what people think of this 2019 Prusa i3 3D Printer DIY Kit MK3 Heatbed MK8 Extruder,Large Structure Size

For £73.19 would it be a waste of time or worth trying?

I thought maybe they were just selling the bed but they have confirmed "Our printers just need to be assembled to be a complete printable."

 

Don't do it..!!!

[RolandKol]

6 minutes ago, Jkulin said:

OK I have got to ask, what people think of this 2019 Prusa i3 3D Printer DIY Kit MK3 Heatbed MK8 Extruder,Large Structure Size

For £73.19 would it be a waste of time or worth trying?

I thought maybe they were just selling the bed but they have confirmed "Our printers just need to be assembled to be a complete printable."

 

I would not consider any wooden frame for 3D printers...

I guess, it may work, but you will end up printing in a very low speeds....30-40mm/s
Plus, they even have not bothered to place Z axis properly for one of their advert pictures.... So quality control is at the lowest rate...

However, - all the electric parts and metallic rods used, - probably would cost more than this printer if bought separately  interesting...  

P.S.

Ender 3 or Mega, are probably the cheapest options which actually work...

[RolandKol]

6 hours ago, Thalestris24 said:

Can you believe it - after ordering the Creality PLA I decided to have another go with the PLA+ - you guessed it, it was fine this time!! Not only that, I used the same temperature settings as for the PLA. Now I'm going to have an extra kg of filament... I suppose it keeps a long time unopened? The SUNLU was vacuum packed.

White Creality PLA left, Black SUNLU PLA+ right:

I've stayed up much too late - going to bed now.

Louise  

Nice results!

But for astro "toys", it is probably better to go PETG or even ABS way... Not sure about PLA+, but simple PLA deformed and and melted during the summer time on my scope under the cover... 
Had to reprint it all.

I have not yet tried ABS, as I am quite happy with PETG, and I fell in love with a RED-Transparent one

"Long time unopened "

Depends on luck I guess... I have received one Sunlu spool which was humid even in the vacuum bag... it was my 3rd spool in total, so due to the lack of experience I was very confused why I end up with a bad prints.

This issue led me to print/craft the drybox for printing and made me to by another plastic box for filament storage.

Wet PLA I had, was dried in the oven at 60C / around 5 hours (I dried all spools I have, just in case), later placed into the drybox with a silica gel for printing and was "consumed" properly  

So even if your PLA gets wet, - do not worry. 

But since then, - all the filament I buy and if opened, - it goes directly into the drybox and printed from it directly, PLA/PETG, no difference. 

Drobyx is especially good if you do not print for several weeks and etc.

P.S.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3320749

(the link is just an example, I use a different set up)

[Chriske]

Someone suggested  Google : 3d printer fire.
Do the same and Google also : washing-machine fire, dish-washing machines fire, laundry dryer fire...etc...

I'm not saying ignore safety measures, let that be clear.

[Thalestris24]

1 hour ago, RolandKol said:

Nice results!

But for astro "toys", it is probably better to go PETG or even ABS way... Not sure about PLA+, but simple PLA deformed and and melted during the summer time on my scope under the cover... 
Had to reprint it all.

I have not yet tried ABS, as I am quite happy with PETG, and I fell in love with a RED-Transparent one

"Long time unopened "

Depends on luck I guess... I have received one Sunlu spool which was humid even in the vacuum bag... it was my 3rd spool in total, so due to the lack of experience I was very confused why I end up with a bad prints.

This issue led me to print/craft the drybox for printing and made me to by another plastic box for filament storage.

Wet PLA I had, was dried in the oven at 60C / around 5 hours (I dried all spools I have, just in case), later placed into the drybox with a silica gel for printing and was "consumed" properly  

So even if your PLA gets wet, - do not worry. 

But since then, - all the filament I buy and if opened, - it goes directly into the drybox and printed from it directly, PLA/PETG, no difference. 

Drobyx is especially good if you do not print for several weeks and etc.

P.S.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3320749

(the link is just an example, I use a different set up)

Well, now that the pla+ seems to be behaving I'll print the rest of the spectrometer using that. It's only for indoor night time use. I'll just have to see how it goes. The spectrometer will only consume a few hundred grams (mostly the casing) so I'll be left with a lot of opened and unused filament. I figure it can go in a large enough plastic box with some silica gel. The unopened filament can just kind of sit there. Maybe I'll think of some other projects to build sometime.

Louise

[Gina]

I have several opened reels of filament of various types but the only filament I keep in a polythene bag with silica gel is Nylon.  The house isn't damp and I've had no problem.  OTOH there's no harm in making sure your filament is dry.

[Jkulin]

4 hours ago, Chriske said:

Don't do it..!!!

Thanks, I'll avoid then.