Best scope for around £600

[billyharris72]

For me at this budget (and assuming the mount also needs to fall within the budget) I'd go for an 8 inch Newt (no faster than f5) on an EQ5. If well collimated it should actually be sharper and show more contrast than the equivalent Mak (the smaller obstruction and fewer elements will more than offset the focal ratio provided collimation is good), and is a lot cheaper. Add in a couple of Abbe orthos and you'd have an excellent planetary setup. Mount might struggle a little with an 8 inch tube though.

With no need to buy a mount I'd actually be tempted by the Mak, despite the above. I love my Mak 150 - it's idiot proof and built like a Soviet tractor.

[Gary170782]

I must admit that I'm leaning towards the Dob, I have looked at these in the past and they seem great value for your money. And I've never read a bad review on them. I did state it was for looking at planets but think it's only natural that I Will want to see some DSO and get the most out of my telescope. I've also been told on here and elsewhere that I'll need need some good EP, I have looked these up also in the past and seen that you can pay a small fortune but I'll just slowly and surely build up a collection I think. 

[Chris]

Just now, James Vincent said:

A big dob its the only way to Go. Aperture wins, a 10 inch dob will beat a 5 inch refractor and a 8 inch SCT on all objects.

providing it has good optics

 

really, even considering average seeing conditions and loss of contrast with central obstruction and diff spikes?

Dob's do make planets look a bit washy compared to ED refractors, but with aperture comes resolution, if you happen to have very good seeing (which is rare in the UK), then a 10" Dob will win hands down on that front. I prefer the steady, razor sharp, rich contrasty views of ED refractors for Planets, the OP will only know what they prefer when they look through both at a club. 

Not dissing Dobs as I'm seriously thinking of buying a 10" Dob, but it's for DSO's not even thinking of using one on planets unless the seeing conditions are very good.

[Timebandit]

15 minutes ago, James Vincent said:

A big dob its the only way to Go. Aperture wins, a 10 inch dob will beat a 5 inch refractor and a 8 inch SCT on all objects.

providing it has good optics

 

 

Not sure I would agree with the above IMO. On a head to head on planets and lunar the 120ed apo wins on sharpness and clarity of view(like looking at target with no opics) compared to the 14" Dob(1/10 OO) which will win on image scale.

But on galaxy, clusters, DSO targets the 14" Dob will absolutely win hands down compared to the 120ed apo refractor 

IMO if it's a good all round scope you want but your main Interest is planetary and the scope will be use 90% for planetary or lunar work then go for the 120ed apo

But if you want to go mainly for galaxy, clusters, DSO and a bit of planetary then go for a dob.  And the biggest dob you can get your hands on ?

 

[Glimpse111]

4 hours ago, Timebandit said:

In my opinion if you have £600 to spend and want a good all round scope but a scope that is particularly good at planetary then there is one scope that will fit the bill. And that is a skywatcher 120ed Apo . Will need to get a s/hand but this scope will provide quality sharp optics . People compare these and rate them along side Taks at a fraction of the price. Praise indeed . 

I hope the above helps☺

Only the OTA more than a thousand pound plus add the mount. His budget is only £600 :/ still getting my head around on how you are recommending 120ed  

[James Vincent]

Absolutely, resolution is proportional to aperture. 

My 20 inch dob makes planets look fab A 8 inch TMB APO dos not come close.

A 14 inch dob should easily out perform a 120 ed no question.  Maybe there is a problem with the dob.

i e check the collimation, make sure it is cooled down before using it. Are the optics good, the main mirror may be 10 th wave but what about the secondary mirror?

is the secondary mirror distorted because it is glued on with silicon sealant.

 

[Stu]

As has been said, a lot of this comes down to preference as to how you like your images. There is no doubt that aperture gives you far better resolution and colour on planets, but it also comes with downsides. Larger apertures are much more susceptible to poorer seeing conditions so the views are likely to be unsteadier. I have compared views between many different scopes on the planets. I see more detail and colour with a C925 or a 10 or 12" Dob say, but I just love looking at the razor sharp, steady view through a good 4 or 5" frac. This is where looking through different scopes will help you choose.

There are other things to consider too. Can you get a good view from your garden, or do you need to travel somewhere to observe? The planets are poorly positioned currently, and will remain that way for quite a number of years unfortunately. Being able to observe down to a relatively low altitude without looking  over houses which are pouring out heat will make a big difference to what you see. Will a dob be able to see as low as an EQ or AltAz tripod mounted frac? Possibly not.

If going for a dob, then it might be worth considering an EQ Platform. This is an ingenious device which allows your dob to track the planets (any object really) without needing fancy goto servos and controllers. They give up to 45 mins or more of tracking between resets, and really help what you can see your avoiding having to nudge the scope.

http://www.sumerianoptics.com/products/eq-platform/

Lots to consider! Good luck!

[Chris]

Just now, Glimpse111 said:

Only the OTA more than a thousand pound plus add the mount. His budget is only £600 :/ still getting my head around on how you are recommending 120ed  

It's because he said second hand, you can pick them up for as little as 500 if you're lucky  

[Glimpse111]

Just now, Chris Lock said:

It's because he said second hand, you can pick them up for as little as 500 if you're lucky  

If lucky  and he needs to keep an eye 24/7

[mikeDnight]

42 minutes ago, Gary170782 said:

Thank you for all your posts. I think by all the suggestions that I'm better going to to my local astronomers club and having a look at what people have and what I feel most comfortable with, I feel there could be a fair bit of research getting done ?

One thing that may help you in your decision making might be to check out what some of the best planetary observers use as their instrument of choice. Images of the planets dont really help the visual observer in making this decision, as they rarely come close to the actual eyepiece impression. Observational sketches made by experienced observers can give you a much deeper insight into the visual performance of a scope. 

The late great Harold Hill used a 10" F10 Newtonian to study the Moon and planets. When he had opportunity to observe the Moon with his old 6" reflector alongside his 10", he noted that everything visible in the 10" was also visible in the 6". Chris Lord, a well known lunar and planetary observer stated, with regard to the study of the Moon,  in a 1980's issue of New Moon, that "a 4" refractor is to be preferred to a 6 or even an 8" reflector", (Chris uses a 140 TEC apochromatic refractor). Richard Baum, a great British planetary observer used a 4.5" Cooke refractor, and Nigel Longshaw, another great observer, uses a 78mm Takahashi fluorite apochromatic refractor to produce utterly stunning observational sketches of the Moon, Mars and Venus. Aperture is not the primary concern but rather quality is!

Checking out the planetary sketches on the sketching forums of SGL and CN will show some great observations through refractors and reflectors. Then compare the visible detail from both and weigh up the pro's and con's of a quality portable refractor with those of a much larger reflector.

Mike 

[Chris]

Just now, Glimpse111 said:

If lucky  and he needs to keep an eye 24/7

Yes a 'Glimpse' won't do (sorry couldn't resist), you need to look for a while to get one that cheap, but they do routinely come up for around 600-650  Try not to stress about his budget, they are usually plus minus x amount

[rockystar]

1 hour ago, Gary170782 said:

Thank you for all your posts. I think by all the suggestions that I'm better going to to my local astronomers club and having a look at what people have and what I feel most comfortable with, I feel there could be a fair bit of research getting done ?

Come down to Heaton Park on a clear thursday evening. there will be a variety of scopes on show that you will be able to look through

 

3 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

The late great Harold Hill used a 10" F10 Newtonian

Isn't that going to be over 5 meters long? 

[niallk]

+1 for the 250px: just a great all rounder, imho: great views of planets/lunar/white light solar, and great capability for DSOs.

Best of luck with the decision: lots of great options suggested - sure it's great fun researching the possibilities

-Niall 

PS I agree wholeheartedly with Googling messier & planetary sketches, and getting a feel for what can be seen in the various scope options you are considering.

[N3ptune]

4 hours ago, Gary170782 said:

I did state it was for looking at planets but think it's only natural that I Will want to see some DSO and get the most out of my telescope.

I agree with that, it's a good idea to consider the DSOs also, they are really captivating objects to look at.

 

[Bart]

I've a 10" Dob, I find it both big enough to give great views and yet portable enough. Very easy to use with a small observubg stool

[Gary170782]

 

9 hours ago, rockystar said:

Come down to Heaton Park on a clear thursday evening. there will be a variety of scopes on show that you will be able to look through

 

Isn't that going to be over 5 meters long? 

Thanks, I only live round the corner from Heaton park, where abouts does everyone set up?? 

[mikeDnight]

10 hours ago, rockystar said:

Come down to Heaton Park on a clear thursday evening. there will be a variety of scopes on show that you will be able to look through

 

Isn't that going to be over 5 meters long? 

No! F10 is the aperture multiplied by 10.

10×10"= 100"

100÷12=8.3'

So, Harolds scope was 8.3 feet long. A little over 2•4 meters in length. ☺

[mikeDnight]

10 hours ago, rockystar said:

Come down to Heaton Park on a clear thursday evening. there will be a variety of scopes on show that you will be able to look through

 

Isn't that going to be over 5 meters long? 

Here's a pic of Harolds 10" F10. ?

[Moonshane]

If interested in general observing then an 8-10" newt or dob is hard to beat for most objects. 

I turned in part to refractors when I took up solar observing and with a Herschel wedge they provide far sharper views of the sun than the newts I used previously. I now use fracs on a regular basis at night and really like them. I still use newts of course and there is nothing like aperture for some things but in truth the fracs (especially my 120ED) do better on double stars and wide vistas such as large open clusters etc. Stars are tighter of course. 

A ideal longer term scenario would be a 100mm + frac plus a large newt. In my book. If you went for a cheapish f10 100mm achromat, plus an 8" newt and EQ5 you might get it all within budget. If you are just observing brighter stuff and planets / moon / doubles / eventually sun from home then I stick with the 120ED and EQ5, both used.

[rockystar]

@mikeDnight oops, that was a poor miscalculation on my part

@Gary170782 we meet at the bowling green pavillion every Thursday (I don't make it every week though), It's an open society, so no membership required, just turn up. If it's clear, there will be about 10 scopes out on the patio, and it works a bit like a regular outreach session. It's good fun, this is my second year going down there

http://www.hpag.co.uk/

 

 

[John]

Wow ! - what superb sketches Mr Hill produced

On observing targets, if you limit youself to the planets then you are limiting yourself to just a slice of what visual astronomy has to offer and often a slice that is not conveniently placed to view for several months. I'm sure you WILL want to look at deep sky objects as well. Mind you, most scopes can do both things but some are a little better at one than the other.

I'm another advocate of the 8" - 10" dobsonian by the way.

 

[mikeDnight]

If you like Harolds lunar drawings you'll love his Mars sketches! ???

Then again, if you look at Richard Baum and Nigel Longshaw's sketches of Mars through much smaller aperture instruments, you'll love them too!?

Mike

[James Vincent]

22 hours ago, Timebandit said:

 

Not sure I would agree with the above IMO. On a head to head on planets and lunar the 120ed apo wins on sharpness and clarity of view(like looking at target with no opics) compared to the 14" Dob(1/10 OO) which will win on image scale.

But on galaxy, clusters, DSO targets the 14" Dob will absolutely win hands down compared to the 120ed apo refractor 

IMO if it's a good all round scope you want but your main Interest is planetary and the scope will be use 90% for planetary or lunar work then go for the 120ed apo

But if you want to go mainly for galaxy, clusters, DSO and a bit of planetary then go for a dob.  And the biggest dob you can get your hands on ?

 

Have you ever had clear sharp views through your 14 inch dob ?

[Timebandit]

12 minutes ago, James Vincent said:

Have you ever had clear sharp views through your 14 inch dob ?

 

Hi . Yes . Always do get sharp views through the Dobby . Always well collimated and cooled as outside. Very very nice dob and very pleased with it☺.

But to my eyes in planetary work. I consider the refractor views are a cleaner sharper image . It's almost like having mark 1 eyeballs with x200 magnification with nothing in optical path, crystal clear. I try and explain it with a television situation. The dob is like having normal definition tv, clear and sharp. But the refractor is like having High definition tv , just a crystal clear life like extra sharp image.

Obviously some people may disagree with the above, IMO both the dob and refractor produce great views. But the refractor for planetary has that extra sharpness 

I hope that explains a bit better through my eyes☺

[Chris]

Just now, Timebandit said:

 

Hi . Yes . Always do get sharp views through the Dobby . Always well collimated and cooled as outside. Very very nice dob and very pleased with it☺.

But to my eyes in planetary work. I consider the refractor views are a cleaner sharper image . It's almost like having mark 1 eyeballs with x200 magnification with nothing in optical path, crystal clear. I try and explain it with a television situation. The dob is like having normal definition tv, clear and sharp. But the refractor is like having High definition tv , just a crystal clear life like extra sharp image.

Obviously some people may disagree with the above, IMO both the dob and refractor produce great views. But the refractor for planetary has that extra sharpness 

I hope that explains a bit better through my eyes☺

+1 for the above, and to ad to it I personally feel the image is more steady particularly in a long frac. Partly this is because of the large depth of focus, and maybe faster thermal equilibrium, easier to figure slow lens etc? I don't even notice the atmosphere at all with my classic Japanese 76mm f16 refractor from the get go, but do with a 6" f5 Newt for example. The down side of the pea shooter frac is that the image is dim and you have to resign yourself to having muddy knees when viewing anywhere near zenith. 

I'd be interested to see how a 6" f/8 Newt/Dob does on planets, I occasionally hear very good things about these but note that they pass hands quite regularly for some reason.