Astronomy/astrology

[acey]

Are you bothered when people confuse astronomy and astrology?

"As an amateur astronomer myself, I’m used to the mix-up, though to be honest, the confusion doesn’t particularly trouble me. Don’t get me wrong, I am not going to suggest there is any plausibility in the idea that the gravitational field of Jupiter can stimulate life-changing tidal forces in my head. But while the boundary between science and pseudo-science seems clear enough in theory, it’s not always so straightforward in practice. The reason, in many cases, is that both draw on the same recurring set of ideas..."

Full article:

http://aeon.co/magazine/world-views/how-fossilised-ideas-live-on-in-language-and-science/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AeonMagazineEssays+%28Aeon+Magazine+Essays%29

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Nice read. As regards to my own response to the confusion, I tend to get tired, (very) mildly annoyed, or just burst out laughing, depending on my mood.

[D4N]

I just tell them that they are going to have an awesome day

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[Scott]

It doesn't worry me in the slightest, in fact my nephew/godson quite enjoys trying to wind me up about it. I make a point of never rising to the bait.

If someone legitimately doesn't know the difference then so what. I wouldn't know the difference between a plie and a saute in ballet (yeah I had to google them )

[carastro]

I find it quite annoying, especially when people talk about astrology who believe in it.

I normally put up two crossed fingers if the wrong word is used and they get the hint.

Carole 

[JamesF]

It doesn't worry me in the slightest, in fact my nephew/godson quite enjoys trying to wind me up about it. I make a point of never rising to the bait.

If someone legitimately doesn't know the difference then so what. I wouldn't know the difference between a plie and a saute in ballet (yeah I had to google them )

Saute is when you dance like a sack of potatoes, isn't it?

If someone says "astrology" to you when they mean "astronomy", tell them that today they will learn the distinction between science and fiction

James

[acey]

If someone says "astrology" to you when they mean "astronomy", tell them that today they will learn the distinction between science and fiction

If someone says there are seven colours in a rainbow, is that science or fiction? Quote from the article:

"People had traditionally counted no more than five colours in a rainbow, but for his theory to work Newton needed more, so he introduced two ‘semitones’, orange and indigo, and we’ve been counting seven colours in a rainbow ever since. Generations of schoolchildren have learned mnemonics such as ‘Richard Of York Gave Battle In Vain’, which have as much to do with physical reality as the signs of the zodiac."

[JamesF]

If someone says there are seven colours in a rainbow, is that science or fiction? Quote from the article:

"People had traditionally counted no more than five colours in a rainbow, but for his theory to work Newton needed more, so he introduced two ‘semitones’, orange and indigo, and we’ve been counting seven colours in a rainbow ever since. Generations of schoolchildren have learned mnemonics such as ‘Richard Of York Gave Battle In Vain’, which have as much to do with physical reality as the signs of the zodiac."

Assuming one were to mean "there are exactly seven colours" or even "there are exactly five colours" I think that would have to come under the "fiction" heading as neither case is true.  A rainbow is a continuous spectrum of all visible colours (and presumably some that aren't).

As long as we all understand what's meant by "the colours of the rainbow" however, that doesn't make it a useless fiction.

I wonder how, say, some of the ancient Amazonian or Polynesian tribespeople describe rainbows?

James

[jam1e1]

One of my colleagues was 'thoughtful' in noticing an astrology event and saving the article for me, it was well meaning but obviously didn't quite grasp true meaning made me laugh though, sometimes not worth explaining as would be lost on some

[Peter Drew]

As Astrology was the precursor to Astronomy I'm relatively tolerant to it although I try and be tactful when I know there has been a genuine mistake in meaning. My gripe is the use of Astrology for "fortune telling" other than that for harmless entertainment. I admit to being a bit of a pedant when astronomers mention Scorpio instead of Scorpius. 

[ronin]

Find it easier to just say:

"No idea, that's astrology not astronomy, astrology doesn't concern things like general relativity, expansion of space-time or identifing exo-planets. Similar word but a different subject in about every way."

That tends to bring home the difference in the fields concerned.

Then get on with something else before they can start a discussion or arguement.

Suppose the first thing is to work out if they are using the wrong word.

Tend to do a bit of a double take when someone says:
In astrology how do they know the universe is expanding? :grin:

[SlyReaper]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/patrick-moore-probably-going-to-be-remembered-an-astrologer-2012121052555

I don't like to get annoyed at people who don't know the difference, because there are bound to be things in their lives I don't understand.  Better to keep cool and just be like "yeah, I'm into astronomy; astrology is a completely different thing". 

[Macavity]

I don't get annoyed. Hey, I am creature ("long haired student") of the 70's. If you weren't

into... "the esoteric", you were un-cool back then? Frankly, as a (once) particle physicist, 

I lament the propensity of certain TV scientists to "brawl in the dust" with the New Age.

But it's unlikely I will get an OBE or sit in the house of Lords alongside the "politicians".

Keep *Astronomy* forums (science!) free of BOTH Astrologers and anti-Astrologers I say!

A certain *fundamental symmetry* that appeals to this particular *rationalist* anyway...

[nameunknown]

Well perhaps if all those astrologers had not be so keen on predicting the future we would not have astronomy today. Of course, things have moved on somewhat, we now have "String Theory", which tells us that the world is governed by the "M-Theory" which no-one can actually write down, but is "obviously true".  In a few years time, perhaps the Cosmologists will say "oh... back in those days they only believed in astronomy, but since then inflation/expansion means the furthest you can see if clouds (if you are lucky and get a cloud)".

P

[wuthton]

I think the big man said it best

ngVAfMDtqf8[_/youtube_]

[wuthton]

Try again

 

I think the big man said it best

 

ngVAfMDtqf8

[wuthton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngVAfMDtqf8

[StuartJPP]

I like Professor Michael Merrifield's take on it...

http://youtu.be/hqPtMqw6CSo?t=7m34s

I highly recommend watching these series of videos and others linked, really good.

[scarp15]

I believe that it was the astrological / astronomical work of medieval Arabs situated in Baghdad that collated, retained and progressed manuscripts from former western civilization. We all have inherent subjective cultural and a primeval attachment, whether it is gazing and 'seeing' the coded patterns in the night sky or 'association' through our star sign.

Perhaps there is a space to permit a metaphysical (abstract thought process) to accompany our contemporary rational and logical informed mind set. My dissertation, a long time ago at Newcastle Poly was on metaphysical art.  I reflect on artist Georgio De Chirico, such as the 'Disquieting Muses'. In this setting, the presence of ordinary objects become somewhat unsettling and transfixed and juxtaposed inside solitary spaces, the ordinary becomes dream like and unfamiliar. What is considered rational can over time become mysterious. 

[FenlandPaul]

Good old Zig and Zag - always on when I'd finished my paper round (just before Saved by the Bell, if I remember rightly!).

TV gold - thank you for digging that out.

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[chiltonstar]

I think I can live with people who believe in astrology, or simply confuse it with astronomy as their daft ideas/ignorance don't really impact too much on the rest of us or damage society. I get more worried by people with strongly held convictions in the irrational that do!

Chris

[Macavity]

I think the real problem is that, in a recent (very basic) "science quiz", the readership

of a certain "intelligent" newspaper averaged just THREE out of ten!

When science topics come up for discussion, the subject is immediately changed to

religionandpolitics. Mention science and you get the usual lame jokes about "nerds",

or people (non-scientists) telling us it's ALL "a waste of time and money".

When asked to name a recent scientist of note, the list usually begins with "Steven

Hawkings" (sic!), Richard Dawkins and Neil deGrasse Tyson. OK, but....

On the bright side, since I gave up watching "Loose Women" AND stopped reading

the twitterings of "TV scientists", I find that Astrology rarely features in my life.

Me? I scored 7/10 on the quiz <Oooh the shame> But, in fairness, the ones I got

wrong were related to specific areas of the "politics" of GM foodstuff?  Hmmm... 

To anyone who LOVES science (i.e. most of us?): I sense the real problem is not

with "Astrology", but with public ignorance? I'm not sure how to address that...

But, in the interim, I sense that "supporting your local Astro Soc" and / or sharing

knowledge on Astro forums is a positive start...

[D4N]

To be fair about naming scientists they tend not to get into the spotlight too often and often their discoveries are only attributed to them after they have already died.

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[JB80]

Astrology certainly doesn't have much context in real life for us, OK there are half a dozen free to air channels in Spain doing tarot readings via expensive phone calls but what is that old saying about a fool and their money. These days astrology itself is relatively harmless and I don't think the lines are all that blurred anymore. I'd be tempted to say let sleeping dogs lie, certainly astrology these days, electric universe pundits don't seem to challenge much more than peoples own ignorance.

However there is most definitely a rise in people accepting all sorts of pseudoscience as fact, in some cases it can have quite serious consequences. I do mean serious to the point of life threatening, and this really does irk me.

The only thing people can do is try to educate others as best as possible. Even if it's futile.

[D4N]

There's a fine line between educating and suppressing freedom of belief. If someone wants to believe in that stuff then fine, there's a lot worse out there.

Its not that long ago that anyone who said humans evolved from monikers would have been considered nuts

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