Astronomy/astrology

[JB80]

There's a fine line between educating and suppressing freedom of belief. If someone wants to believe in that stuff then fine, there's a lot worse out there.

Its not that long ago that anyone who said humans evolved from monikers would have been considered nuts

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In some quarters even today people may still think you are nuts.

And I tend to agree with freedom of belief up to a point, you are right it is a fine line to tread and whilst I wouldn't want to be the one calling the shots I think where beliefs impact on the health and safety of individuals and others a firm line in the sand has to be drawn.

It's kind of like smoking, it's fine if you do it in your own place but don't inflict it on others.

[RikM]

 it's fine if you do it in your own place but don't inflict it on others.

...which is why we have the 'no politics or religion' rule on SGL.

[JB80]

Hence why I did not mention either.

[RikM]

Not aimed at you Jarrod, just a general reminder

[JamesF]

And I tend to agree with freedom of belief up to a point, you are right it is a fine line to tread and whilst I wouldn't want to be the one calling the shots I think where beliefs impact on the health and safety of individuals and others a firm line in the sand has to be drawn.

It's kind of like smoking, it's fine if you do it in your own place but don't inflict it on others.

I'm happy for people to believe what they want, but equally I think it's right to challenge them if they start airing beliefs that I believe to be wrong where others might take them seriously and I'm happy to defend what I believe in if someone does the same to me.  You have the right to believe in what you wish.  I don't think you should have the right to make those views public, whatever they are, and expect to go unchallenged.  If we lived in a society where people were taught to analyse the things they see and hear critically and make their own decisions perhaps it could be different.  But we don't.  Most people don't understand the difference between causality and correlation, for instance.  I know of some beekeepers who claim that bees can follow ley lines, for crying out loud.

James

[RikM]

Personally it doesn't really bother me when people use the wrong word or misunderstand. I get it all the time at work: "what do the stars say about the weekend?" Most of them are only joking though.

Nicely written article Acey It was nice to have the opportunity to stop and think about commonly held things that have no closer to 'reality' than constellations. I'll not look at a rainbow the same way again

[JB80]

That's alright, sorry I realise the subject can stray a little too close at times and have actively tried to censor myself on this occasion.

Also James, I agree  completely, that is a very good post.

[RikM]

  Most people don't understand the difference between causality and correlation, for instance.  

I don't know which is the best example to give here, global warming being linked to the reduction in the number of sea faring pirates, or hay-fever being linked to consumption of icecream

[D4N]

Bad science can be used to prove anything you want it to, as can statistics.

It's just a matter of ignoring or omitting the bits you don't like.

100% of the people that have read this post agree with me completely.

Totally true when I wrote it as no one else has read it yet

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[JamesF]

I don't know which is the best example to give here, global warming being linked to the reduction in the number of sea faring pirates, or hay-fever being linked to consumption of icecream

Actually, there was a really nice example the other day that had me ranting at my web browser

The chap who is in charge of Ofsted (I think) was saying that it was wrong that there should be such an imbalance amongst successful athletes and other sportspeople (excluding footballers) when comparing those who were educated at state schools and those who were educated at private schools, clearly drawing a causal link between education at a private school and the likelihood of being a successful sportsperson without any apparent justification.  There may well appear to be a correlation, but equally it's quite possible that parents who choose or can afford to send their children to private schools might be more able to provide the kind of support required for a child to become very successful at a given sport.  It may be absolutely nothing to do with the school they attended whatsoever.

James

[Moonshane]

I play at being annoyed but am not really. I think colourd are just made up by us as we like to categorise things as s species (there it is again) . Would a bull or a fly agree that the sky is blue?

[Kropster]

I snort derisively at their ignorance.

[wuthton]

Bad science can be used to prove anything you want it to, as can statistics.

Statistically, the England football team have a 2 in 3 chance of winning when the game is aired on the BBC. When shown on ITV this drops to a measly 1 in 5 chance of winning.

Nuff-said about statistics.

[Scott]

Bad science can be used to prove anything you want it to, as can statistics.

It's just a matter of ignoring or omitting the bits you don't like.

100% of the people that have read this post agree with me completely.

Totally true when I wrote it as no one else has read it yet

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bad science ignors and omits. good science tries to prove or disprove all the "bits"

[SlyReaper]

I snort derisively at their ignorance.

See, that's the opposite of what I want to do.  If someone has a gap in their knowledge, I want to be cool about filling it.  If I get snarky or make fun of them, I train them not to come to me when they want to know something, and I'd miss out on the warm glow I'd get for showing them something amazing.

[Kropster]

See, that's the opposite of what I want to do.  If someone has a gap in their knowledge, I want to be cool about filling it.  If I get snarky or make fun of them, I train them not to come to me when they want to know something, and I'd miss out on the warm glow I'd get for showing them something amazing.

I think people who 'believe' in Astrology are beyond help and tend to pity and look down on us 'unbelievers' or astrology 'deniers'.

If you don't believe in any of this hog-wash you are labelled a 'denier' whereas, in truth , they should be labelled truth deniers!

[SlyReaper]

I think people who 'believe' in Astrology are beyond help and tend to pity and look down on us 'unbelievers' or astrology 'deniers'.

If you don't believe in any of this hog-wash you are labelled a 'denier' whereas, in truth , they should be labelled truth deniers!

I think we're talking at cross purposes here.  Someone who doesn't know the difference between astrology and astronomy doesn't necessarily throw in with the astrology camp.  Usually, they're just someone who has never taken a particular interest in either subject, and I'm more than happy to enlighten them on the difference.

That said, if they're astrology believers, I'm also more than happy to debate them on the subject.

[Kropster]

Point taken.

Good luck on debating with the believers...... just remember to remove their blinkers first!

[Macavity]

Off to the wedding of my niece (2nd cousin once removed?) at the end of the month. Broadly

"Neo-Pagan" it seems? (By request) No "God", no "religion & politics". Lots of Beer & Wine!

Maybe we'll be gate-crashed by (certain) "TV scientists"... Witch-hunting for "Astrologers"? 

(I have a feeling that THEY [to their surprise] won't find all that many!)

[mjpfc]

Astrology, string theory,  all the same to me

[Floater]

My head's hurting now.

[Andrew INT]

I have no real problem with people getting the two confused since it gives me the opportunity to point them in the right direction.

What I think is interesting though, is that people from all walks of life, including those in respected professions, will follow their horoscope, and yet I don't think the majority have really given any real thought as to the feasibility of it all.

What DOES annoy my, is that it gets air-time on things like Radio Two where people are advised  not to/ to get into relationships, buy a house, change job, live abroad etc. This goes beyond "harmless fun". How cool would it be if all the daily newspapers ran an article on what to see in the night sky, rather than such tripe as your chances of falling into money, love or illness.

[Floater]

OK. Since this is still running, here's my tuppence-worth. A cautionary tale from 'one who was there'.

A thousand or so years ago when I worked on the production side of a daily newspaper (in hot metal days) we had horoscopes pre-set for some weeks ahead. When the page which ran the horoscopes - always in the Features section, of course - was being made up we compositors would go to this cache and pick up a horoscope list to insert. Any list would do; nobody paid any attention to the date it was meant to be for ...

Couldn't resist an inward smile when sometimes later I heard folks speak about what their horoscope had predicted for them that day and how it had 'come true'!

Now ain't that strange ...

[Macavity]

I worked on the production side of a daily newspaper (in hot metal days) we had horoscopes...

Rumour: Inclusion of horoscopes adds 10k... 20k... (or something!) to daily circulation.

The DATING section of "intelligent" newspapers still includes the participant sun-sign.

Best ever (primary) school trip: the Manchester Evening News. Watching the machines

start to roll! Still have my souvenir "your name in linotype". Mate's Dad worked on one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linotype_machine - Best ever "Heath-Robinson-looking" device? 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I am dead against astrology, but then that is typical for an Aquarius