Street Light Problem

[craigb1970]

I was wondering whether it is possible to get local authorities to turn of  individual street lights that are causing problems with observing.  Has anyone had any success in doing this?

[ronin]

Getting one turned off may be a little difficult.

They may fit a shield to the offending light, and I gather that the best approach is to ring them and politely ask about what they could do to alievate a problem.

They may be able to turn off all the laights in a group at a given time. Many are doing this to save on their budget.

You might get lucky and they could turn one off, but then it is equally likely that some other resident will report a broken light and they will put it back on.

A polite enquiry is the best approach.

One thing is that doing astronomy is not to a council a big concern, so you may have to talk about heightened light pollutiion and a potential impact on you. Equally you may get a budding astronomer on the other end.

Best of luck.

[RichM63]

This is generally a hot topic across astro' forums.

As it happens the other day I was speaking to a visiting friend who is the chairperson of a council.

It seems that there are various policies afoot to turn off sections or whole areas of street lights after certain times at night depending on the council.

It would also be correct to visit your local council offices and get an appointment with your local Ward Councillor in order to explain your concern.

Individual lights might be a logistic problem, but apparently sodium lights are being replaced by LED type and the idea seems to be to reduce the output after certain times or turn them off all together where security is not an issue. (saves money).

For an individual problem light, shielding might be the only possible solution.

However in all instances, a polite and friendly discussion with the council is more likely to reveal positive results than an antagonistic approach. (not that I am suggesting that you would be antagonistic).

That's it for me, my nearest St light is over 2 miles away, just so happens my friend was visiting.

hth,

Rich

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Excellent advice so far. Given the need to save electricity and money, councils are probably more ready to listen than any time before

[jason.p]

I have just heard back from our council that they are about to implement a "part lighting" scheme where 6000 lights over the county will be turned off at12.30, and the sodium lights to be replaced with dimmable LEDs. This from a largely rural county was quite a pleasant surprise!

If it's just one offending light, you could arrange some kind of strategically placed screen such as a blanket over a washing line.

[Kirscovitch]

Sounds like more and more sodium lights are being replaced with LED. I have tried contacting my city council about the streetlight on the corner that does hardly any good for the intersection but more or less pours all its light into my yard. Haven't heard back yet but I am keeping my fingers crossed. A simple shield would do the trick.

[spaceboy]

Took me a while to get my St lighting problem addressed http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/114852-council-taking-the-micky/

[Charic]

My local street is "Secure  by Design" for security purposes, and every house is fitted with PIR intruder lights, front and rear ( I feel like Michael Jackson walking home some nights with each light illuminating as you pass? ) so no matter if the Street lights were dimmed here, the PIR lights are a pain in the donkey! 

It wasn't until I purchased the 8" Skyliner, that I noticed how light polluted my observation site really is?

With Summer vegetation back, Street lighting is reduced somewhat, but being so far North, its almost like living in perma-light conditions at present, Its just not getting dark enough here at night ( enough reason to switch off some street lights maybe?) to warrant using the Reflector, so its resting until the darker nights return. That said, I often draped a bath towel over my head when observing during Winter. If I cant see the street lights directly with my eyes, they cant see me,  and  my vision was not  affected. I don't use a snood either on the telescope.

[craigb1970]

Thanks for all the interesting comments.  I do have a screen of sorts which helps but the light is quite close and the glow significant.  I'll try giving the council a polite call and see how it goes.

[RT65CB-SWL]

It depends on the type of road you are on too or near your home. I was told mine is classified as a main road. I have a pelican crossing leading to the local super/hyper market, leisure centre & district centre between two roundabouts and the council says they have to be illuminated on the final approach, (sounds like it is an airport runway than a main road doesn't it).

What annoys me I have about three standard height ones on the main road and two low ones on a footpath either end of the apartment block. The council will not even think about capping them and even asked about the LED street lights and if and when they intend to be introduced and was politely told "No comment!"

Then there is the lighting from the super/hyper market & leisure centre car parks. We did have a brick wall to our parking area which was about 5'6" tall on the main road side, about 7'6" parking area side, but got blown down twice and 'we' the residents got fed up having to pay for it to be rebuilt twice in three and half years. It did offer some dark adaption and sheltered me from the car park lighting. Now 'everyone' jumps down and uses it as a shortcut as well as the comment about Uranus from the young teenagers who should be in bed instead of roaming the streets in the early hours (do their parents know?) and those who have come out of the pub. Enough said, me thinks!

[RichM63]

^ go in to the offices and have a face to face, far better IMHO.

BTW, in futherance to the cause, I have lent to my friend's the 20x80s + T/pod and they are stunned by Moon views that we have with no LP.

And the morning discussion goes, WOW, we saw..... what else can we see?.....Response; When at home...Turn all your local lights off, and......see The Universe!

Due back at the end of Aug, I'll be throwing a Star Party with them having access to the scopes.

In my paltry way I am trying to do my bit to promote Natural Dark.

[cutepetgroomer]

There's actually a city ordinance in effect in my city to reduce light pollution. It started a few years ago and it has slowly been making more progress across the city. Not many businesses or apts are aware of it

[Scott]

Street lighting and nuisance lighting are contentious issues on an astronomy forum and suggestions on how to 'fix' the situation sometimes defy common sense.

 

The moderation team would like to remind all posters that CRIMINAL DAMAGE IS ILLEGAL - do not post suggestions of criminal damage on SGL.

 

This includes air rifles, black paint, pointing lasers at the sensor, tampering with the electrics (you could die) and 'anything' else that prevent it from working.

 

Suggestions of illegal activity, even in jest,  concerning tampering with any nuisance lights will result in 'WITHOUT WARNING' sanctions from the moderation team.

 

If this is unclear or you feel you cannot comply with this request please do not post on this subject.

 

Many thanks

 

The SGL Moderation team.

[Myopicus]

Emad is a bit of an authority on this issue. You could try PM-ing him?

[todd8137]

If you can prove it's causing a prob like say shinning in your bedroom windows ,or your children's,they may put a shield on at no point mention telescope to your local council

Pat

[wxsatuser]

New lights are being install here at this very moment.

The new posts appear to be about 4foot taller and I would assume they will be LED.

Won't make much difference as I have the South Coast light dome from South East to the West.

[romx]

Have in issue with one of those old sodium lights, luckily for me its right infront of a neighbours bedroom and they like looking through my scope and hate that light so they are going to see about getting it shaded or some other alternative for me

[wuthton]

Just out of interest, if all sodium lights were changed to LED how much of an improvement would it be for visual and AP?

[DaveS]

It's not simply about the type of lamp, but how well the lantern is designed. It's easier to get a full cut-off with LED, but still possible to mess things up completely if left to complacency. It's equally possible to get full cut-off with NA if the lantern is properly designed, and any spill of reflection from the ground (EG, after rain or snow) is filterable, which it isn't with LED.

[Alien 13]

Just out of interest, if all sodium lights were changed to LED how much of an improvement would it be for visual and AP?

I have found that AP is greatly improved and visual is worse, if you are in a hotspot the direct glare from a LED light is very intense and destroys any dark adaption.

Before the change i could only manage subs of 30s before they where over exposed now its more like 2 minutes.

Alan

[wuthton]

I was considering in regard to what difference the wavelengths would make. From just a visual assessment LED Streetlights operate at a much higher frequency. So the orange hue would be gone but the burning question is what would it be replaced with?

[DaveS]

The readily filterable (Because nearly monochromatic) orange glow is replaced by a totally unfilterable broad spectrum glow, the only dip being in the cyan somewhere around the 470-500nm.

[wuthton]

The readily filterable (Because nearly monochromatic) orange glow is replaced by a totally unfilterable broad spectrum glow, the only dip being in the cyan somewhere around the 470-500nm.

So in the near future when all sodiums have been changed to LED those in or near cities are going to be worse off?

[DaveS]

Possibly, but it doesn't have to be.

If LED fixtures are implemented intelligently (Yeah, I know, ....councils....) then the improvement can be dramatic, but if not then the results can be dire, witness the debacle in Hounslow recently. And as I said, if there's a lot of reflection from the ground the resultant light cannot be filtered.

[astronymonkey]

As the led modules are smaller units ie not a long tube, the reflector can be designed to encase the led element so naturally sheild the lamp better. Some lamps dont need a back sheild as such but take a clip on louvred reflector module that alters the reflected beam and makes it more directional. A lensed led can help also and also the distribution pattern used ie a type 1 is a wide and narrow beam for paths and roads whereas a type v is more of a full wide pattern for the centre of car parks.

from the ground its difficult to tell where the light will shine and how directional it will be until its switched on so a back sheild isnt always needed but a clip-in reflector module may be a better option.

If you find out what lighting head has been fitted ie manufacturer and model, then you can look online for the manufacturers brochure for that model and specify to the council exactly which part number they need to fit the unit. That way they know you cant be fobbed off and to be honest the clip on units that are made for the specific lighting head can work better than many of the generic "fits all" sheilds that tend to be in use.

Cheers,

in my area they fit the same sheild whatever the make of lamp heads. We have a cobra head fitting and the sheild is simply not wide enough to do the job, but if we had the thinner old lamp them they would be ok.