12mm Nagler T2 vs 13mm Ethos

[Moonshane]

The 12mm Nagler is the first serious eyepiece I have bought for a while and I am hoping it will be as good as the 16mm T2 I have already. One reason for getting this is that I hope that it will allow me the confidence to release the cash in my 13mm Ethos so I can make a substantial contribution towards the cost of another future purchase - a 50mm Lunt Ha scope when they are available in the summer.

Thankfully I managed to secure one at a good price via a wanted ad on AB&S.  It should arrive tomorrow and hopefully over the weekend I can start to make some meaningful comparisons and will report back once I can do so. This seems to be a reasonably uncommon item based on sales (archived) on AB&S but maybe it's one the people don't sell that much for a reason - we'll see!

[John]

It should be an interesting comparison Shane 

On paper the older Naglers (the T1's and T2's) should loose out slightly to the current generation Naglers and Ethos due to advances in glass types and coatings. I started my Nagler "career" with T1's in the 4.8mm and 7mm focal lengths and found that the T6 equivalents did seem to offer some modest improvements to my eyes. I found the Ethos a slight step up in performance again from the T6's, apart from the additional FoV and eye relief.

But I've not used a T2 Nagler so I'll be very interested in hearing what you think of the T2 12mm 

It's the age old questions isn't it ? - are there any differences that matter to me (or you, in this case) ?

I know that you really enjoy your 16mm T2 so there is every hope that the 12mm will be equally satisfying.

I

[Moonshane]

that's my thinking in a nutshell John. I bought the 16mm T2 as a 'fill in' eyepiece but really like it. the eye relief suits me, the field is 'just there' compared with the Ethos and other than field and a slightly darker background sky in the 13mm ethos (which I think is the higher magnification) I cannot see any difference. if the 12mm is as good as the 16mm I'll be well chuffed.

the other factor for me is that for some reason my eyes and wide fields with the moon, just don't get on. I find my 13mm Ethos and 26mm Nagler seem to show what I can only describe as flashes of chromatic aberration on the moon. I think this might be my eyes as I suffered a visual migraine a while back when a digital projector and screen created weird zigzags, blurred and and tunnel vision for about 20 minutes.

however, my simpler eyepieces and surprisingly the 16mm T2 don't induce this effect. I am hoping the 12mm is the same.

I am glad that I have been fortunate enough to try both together although I have just been reminded that it's technically for my anniversary on the 30th!

[alan potts]

Shane,

Congratulations on the 12mm T2, I am trying (weather won't let me) to put the T4 12mm through its paces at the moment against the 12mm Delos. I too will be interested to read what you have to say but like John I would have thought things like transmission if nothing else would have moved on a little.

Alan

[Moonshane]

cheers Alan - I'll report back. like 'Catchphrase' I'll say what I see

Good luck to Hull tomorrow too! I'll be a Tiger for a day!

[alan potts]

I think they may need some luck but this final has turned up some shocks over the years as I am sure you are well aware, but this needs to be one of the biggest.

I hope you get some good weather to use it. I think from what I see of the T2's they all seem a bit bigger than the up-grades, I mean the T2 20mm Nagler was maybe the biggest ever, though I think some of the Meades I had (30mm UWA & 40mm SWA) were knocking on the door or maybe even heavier.

Alan

[Moonshane]

well it's arrived and other than a few tiny set screw marks on the 2" skirt it looks like it has been in a time capsule since 1996. really mint condition. the seller was a true gent and sent it to me extremely quickly. it's about the same size as the 16mm T2 and much smaller than the 13mm ethos.

[Mark at Beaufort]

Interesting decision Shane - I hope the 12mm T2 works out. I must admit I also want the new Lunt 50mm solar scope to replace my PST. I am hoping that one might be on display at the Astro Show in Leamington Spa next month.

Look forward to your review of the Nagler and Ethos side by side.

[alan potts]

Shane,

Receiving things as stated in a advert is always important to me and I think on the whole we are an honest bunch.  If anything I over state any problems.

I have the craziest sky at the moment it ibue and sunny for a few miles around me but very dark grey all around that. There is no doubt the grey will win so I hope the blue bit moves over to you for to-night.

Alan

[swamp thing]

Look forward to your thoughts Shane.

I have the 12 T4 and really like it. In fact it's my favourite eyepiece, hope the T2 is every bit as good

[AlexB67]

Shane, I hope you like it. 

I wonder if some of the older naglers have a similar generation coating as the Radians.  I happen to be enjoying my older 8mm Radian I recently got, thanks to 3 good nights, last night was really steady seeing on Saturn as well so I could enjoy it with a barlow. I tried various doubles also with it   The 8mm Radian is turning out to be a lovely eyepiece bit by bit, though I must admit it did not really massively impress on the first night, it is a very well corrected eyepiece ( a you would expect form a TV ) though when it comes to transmission and star colour it does seem older gen to me.  I noticed it on specifically chosen double, one of which has a sliglty offwhite ( very light blue colour ) ( B-V index -0.04 or so ) and must admit the BST showed it a tad more clearly that it is slightly blue versus the white of its companion.  Throughput/transmission in the BST starguider is slightly edging it too by a smidgeon, even it if in every other category the Radian  it is beginning to win out over the BST and that little bit sharper too. 

Having said all that, I must admit this is one thing I dislike a little bit about these older TVs, as well as the slight colour cast which is very nice on Jupiter but I dislike a bit when it comes to more general use, it doesn't always help in very siubtle contrast situtions where the BST is also proving to be rather good and holding up well against it. 

Presumably the transmission and colour neutrality is better in the newer range such as Delos ( I have yet to sample one in the coming months ).

[Moonshane]

cheers guys. I'll certainly be reporting back. I'll try to find some objects which are only just visible in the Ethos and see if I can see them in the Nagler. I am confident that for me anyway the Nagler will be better on the moon. also, I'll check thinks like edge correction and star colour. looking forward to it. I'll possibly give initial reaction and then more objective comments after a decent enough period.

[John]

....like 'Catchphrase' I'll say what I see 

I'm sure you will Shane. If there is an equal or better eyepiece out there than the 13mm Ethos for 1/3rd of the price I think we need to know about it  

Al Nagler might be interested too, having invested presumably quite a lot in revised optical designs and coating technologies over the past 18 years !

[Moonshane]

I suppose it's about the field you can see and the eye relief! If the 12mm T2 has the same sharpness and contrast as a T4 or Ethos but less eye relief or field of view than I am quite happy

[Bart]

.

I started my Nagler "career" with T1's in the 4.8mm and 7mm focal lengths and found that the T6 equivalents did seem to offer some modest improvements to my eyes. I found the Ethos a slight step up in performance again from the T6's, apart from the additional FoV and eye relief.

I bought a used T1 4.8mm a while back and it gives me x260 in my 10" Dob. Yes the ER is TIGHT!!!! but it gives me wonderfully clear sharp detail when the seeing is good. I'm sure the later TVs are better, but I really like that T1

Barry

I

[John]

.

....I bought a used T1 4.8mm a while back and it gives me x260 in my 10" Dob. Yes the ER is TIGHT!!!! but it gives me wonderfully clear sharp detail when the seeing is good. I'm sure the later TVs are better, but I really like that T1

Barry

I

The 4.8mm T1 Nagler was my 1st ever Nagler 

It was really nice but I had nothing of any quality to compare it with, until I bought a T6 5mm Nagler.

Edit: Sorry Shane, this is a bit off topic 

[ollypenrice]

I'll buy the Ethos if you decide to sell it, MS! This rather discourages me from telling you what I really think!!!!!

 lly

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Interesting that you went for the T2. I have the T4(s; all of them), and the 12 is very nice, if perhaps a touch less than the 17 and 22, due to a bit less eye relief (although the increase in magnification might also give a slight reduction in apparent sharpness in my F/10 scope)

[Moonshane]

I should stress of course that this is a trial basis  I prefer in many ways the view through the 16mm T2 but if the 12mm T2 does not live up to this then I'll either keep both or sell the T2. It's all in the air at the minute. I have tried to sell the 13E before and bottled it a couple of times.

[Moonshane]

plus it's an equity release exercise to allow earlier purchase of a Lunt 50 than would otherwise be possible. in truth even if the 12mm is only 'slightly' worse than the 13E, it will still be worth it to change as I really have the hot sweats about a Ha visual scope having done so much solar of late.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

grats on your new EP Shane,doesnt happen very often that you change something in your EP box

i think T2 will perform exceptionally well in comparison to your Ethos,Ethos obviously will edge it,but difference will be only slight and not really a massive drop in sharpness or anything else,specially if you like your 16mm t2 .

Looking forward to your first light and thoughts.

Clear skies

[John]

plus it's an equity release exercise to allow earlier purchase of a Lunt 50 than would otherwise be possible. in truth even if the 12mm is only 'slightly' worse than the 13E, it will still be worth it to change as I really have the hot sweats about a Ha visual scope having done so much solar of late.

Sounds like the decision is made Shane - I can't imagine that the differences will be major in any particular department

[Moonshane]

I have thought that before John and have never quite managed to convince myself.  I was spurred on this time by people who seem to own both reporting that the only difference between the 12mmT2 and T4 is eye relief and that the views were identical. I'll upload some pics later with physical comparisons initially at least as it's cloudy here typically!

[scarp15]

Good luck with the new / replacement e.p Shane. Understandable as you appear to like and have gained familiarity with the 16mm T2.  Undertaking an 'equity exercise' towards a new wish list myself at present.

[Stu]

I hope it all works out for you Shane and the T2 turns out to be a good buy.

As you may have noticed, I've sold a load of kit recently, including eyepieces I thought I would never sell. It has freed up cash to buy the Vixen and a number of other bits, so I am pleased I did it. It has also broken a slightly obsessive habit of not being able to let anything go!!

I now quite regularly have whole sessions just using my BGO's, Plossls, the nag zoom and 24mm Panoptic and have been really enjoying them.

Look forward to hearing all about it.

Cheers,

Stu

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk