12mm Nagler T2 vs 13mm Ethos

[alan potts]

Ian,

I think you will need better eyes than me to see any differences aprt from the obvious, I've got both 6mm's and I can't split them but because I have a few scopes I will be keeping them, you don't always need such a big FOV.

Alan.

[swamp thing]

I have used a 13mm Ethos on a few occasions and while it sure is a nice eyepiece, I must admit to not being tempted by one.

I'm quite happy with my 12mm T4.

However if I already owned one, could I then opt for the 12mm T4???? This I don't know, good luck calling this one Shane.

TBH I reckon you'll miss the Ethos if you let it go.

I know one thing I couldn't go to a Delos from my Nagler. I'd miss the field I'm sure of it. I've used the Delos 12mm a few times too.

BTW that T2 looks in great nick mate. Well looked after.

[Moonshane]

in some ways I think I have not got across my point/reasons for considering this decision.

I agree the Ethos is a fantastic eyepiece and that I'll miss it almost certainly but my factors are as follows :

• I enjoy greatly and seem to have more time and opportunity currently for solar observing/sketching
• We are in a solar max period at the minute which I want to make the most of
• it would take me about two years at least to save £900 by which time I might miss out on a lot of observing
• selling the Ethos and replacing it with the T2 brings the solar scope at least a year closer with a few other bits - maybe even by the end of the summer when they are available with a bit of luck

It's not so much that I want to 'lose' the ethos, more that I want to gain a solar experience while the features remain numerous

ultimately I can always start saving again to replace the ethos in the future if I really miss it; they are not that rare used.

[Joves]

Your point/reasons for parting with it actually were pretty clear, Shane... I was just having a little dig

To be honest, I think you'll get far greater satisfaction out of the Lunt 50 than you will the 13mm Ethos. Even if the differences are somewhat noticeable between the Ethos and the Nagler, I think you'd be wise to part with the Ethos. Don't get me wrong, the 13mm is a cracking eyepiece, but it's not THAT good that it can override the appeal, satisfaction and enjoyment of a whole 'nother scope which allows a whole 'nother aspect to your visual astronomy. No brainer of a decision I reckon. Get rid of the Ethos and get into solar. I'm sure the Nagler will do just fine.

[scarp15]

I know one thing I couldn't go to a Delos from my Nagler. I'd miss the field I'm sure of it. I've used the Delos 12mm a few times too.

BTW that T2 looks in great nick mate. Well looked after.

Interesting, I had considered trading in my 11mm Plossl (which I have gone ahead and done anyhow) and 13mm T6 Nagler, to fund a 12mm delos, as I like the 10mm so much. However the field of view afforded by the nagler line is nice and contrasting with the charms provided by my current delos and the 12mm may be a little too close to a 10mm other than for planetary (if I do not sell my C8). 

Sometimes its a case of needs must, regarding selling off valued items, when you aim to prioritize or evolve into another strand of interest in this hobby.

[swamp thing]

I guess I should have explained I Barlow my 12mm too. The Delos Barlowed to 6mm would start to become a little crowded on globs etc.

[laservet]

I have thought that before John and have never quite managed to convince myself.  I was spurred on this time by people who seem to own both reporting that the only difference between the 12mmT2 and T4 is eye relief and that the views were identical. I'll upload some pics later with physical comparisons initially at least as it's cloudy here typically!

I had both and side by sided them for some time in a variety of apo refractors and an SCT and a Mak-Cass. The only difference I saw was the t4 had a bit better scatter control and a bit less ghosting. Not visible unless the scope is high contrast/low scatter, humidity is low, and seeing is great. The t2 is a fantastic bang for the buck.

[Moonshane]

cheers Paul, that's good feedback. I rarely if ever use the ethos for planetary or lunar, more for non-solar system objects so I think it should be pretty inseparable for that sort of use. that was my thinking anyhow. I didn't expect this thread to create so much apparent controversy but I suppose that's eyepieces for you

[laservet]

cheers Paul, that's good feedback. I rarely if ever use the ethos for planetary or lunar, more for non-solar system objects so I think it should be pretty inseparable for that sort of use. that was my thinking anyhow. I didn't expect this thread to create so much apparent controversy but I suppose that's eyepieces for you

Yes, eyepiece preference is like spouse preference, very individual and subjective. I must say now that I have the 13 Ethos I use the 12 Nagler much less often, but it still gets used. For me it is all about seeing the target appropriately framed and certain target + scope + eyepiece combinations hit a sweet spot. One example is with the 13 Ethos in my 10" Mak-Cass M13 nearly fills the gigantic fov with just enough space around it. Stunning.

[Moonshane]

not the best of nights last night with a fair amount of high cloud but I tried out the 12mm T2  (115x 0.71 degree field and exit pupil 2.6mm) and 13mm E (106x 0.94 degree field and exit pupil 2.8mm) last night. note that the parameters stated include the effect of the paracorr which makes this an f4.6 scope with the 15% effective increase in focal length.

the eye relief felt about the same as although the Ethos is (I think) 3mm more, you are naturally tempted to push your eye into it a little more to gain the larger field. given the conditions I looked at Mars and Saturn, M13, M92, M57 and M56. this is not a very subjective review at this stage as I'd like a bit more time to compare them but in truth there was very little between them. I tried them with and without the paracorr and both provided really good wide field views of the objects with little if any coma apparent (only in the outer edges of the field was it really visible to my eyes at least). 

the sky background was identical in 'greyness' with nothing given either way. unfortunately, my skies are rarely black and the aforementioned high cloud was creating scatter.

Mars and Saturn were marginally better in the Ethos with a little more sharpness in the image. on Mars polar cap and surface detail were equally apparent and the Cassini division easily seen with both eyepieces along with purplish banding on the disk. I never use the Ethos for solar system objects so this is not an issue to me in truth.

Other objects revealed no differences that I could see other than field of view but again I stress in less than ideal conditions. I'll be hoping for a better night soon when I can look for some objects on the limit of my conditions at home and then I suspect the Ethos will have a slight advantage but I'll reserve judgment at this stage. for now I am really delighted with the 12mm T2.

[John]

Good start for the Nagler T2 then 

[Moonshane]

Indeed John. not conclusive by any means but unless something changes drastically, I have pretty much made my mind up. it's more the use per £ I suppose that I'll get with the solar scope.

[alan potts]

Shane,

Looks good for the solar scope at the moment. Having a few Televue eyepieces and some at same focal lengths, I really do not think there is a great deal of difference between any of the them. I sort of thought there may be between a T2 offering and a new one in the shape of an Ethos, but it just goes to show the degree of design, QA and class glass that TV have put into their eyepieces over the years. They seem to have only one standard to strive to be the best.

Alan

[Moonshane]

I tend to agree Alan. I have always been a keen promoter of the meagre televue plossl which I feel delivers all but the field of more exotic designs. I may be wrong of course but suspect that they have for a long time produced eyepieces which give a view pretty much as good as you can get across the board and it's improvements in things like more eye relief, more field of view, less kidney beaning, less weight etc that vary. many owners of the 20mm T2 still apparently say it's the sharpest eyepiece ever - obviously debatable but in the end that's what we like I suppose a bit of a heated debate!

[Moonshane]

well, the Ethos is packaged up and ready to go to its new owner - enjoy Olly! (and future guests). I decided in the end that the Nagler is 'good enough' and that gaining a major contribution to the solar scope I want is more important than keeping this eyepiece. I suspect that the Lunt 50 might increase in price after this first batch and again I don't want to miss the boat should this happen. yes, it's official the hype and sales methods have worked perfectly on me

[alan potts]

Shane,

I am doing one of my never ending reviews on the 12mm T4 Nagler and the 12mm Delos at the moment to try and answer just that question, are there any differences? I may have finished by now if the clouds and rain would leave me alone.  I am sure you have read some of my stuff before and know I always put a good many hours observation on many nights behind the reports, proving difficult but I will get there.

Olly has a fine eyepiece on the way but I am sure he knows that anyway.

Good luck with the purchase of the solar scope, I look foeward to hearing about it.

Alan

[Dude_with_the_tube]

well done on your move Shane and same as others,i am looking forward to hear from you about your solar ventures.Dont worry about ethos,it is not a rare eye piece,still in production and if you have a desire to get one again in the future,will not be a big challenge to find one on s/h market.Plenty of them around.Who knows,there might be a newer model and even better one out there.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Interesting. I do now worry that I will get to have my first look through an Ethos when I drop by at Olly's place this summer. Could be a costly experience IF the eye relief is adequate (I doubt it, but one can hope (or not)). I could compare it to my 12T4.

[AlexB67]

Interesting. I do now worry that I will get to have my first look through an Ethos when I drop by at Olly's place this summer. Could be a costly experience IF the eye relief is adequate (I doubt it, but one can hope (or not)). I could compare it to my 12T4.

You could always get the dioptrx addon If you desperately want that ethos ?, one way to solve the issue, though no doubt very costly I would imagine.