Star hoping and navigating the sky without goto

[drnat]

Hi Guys,

Have borrowed a friends 10x75 bins, haven't bought a telescope yet but am thinking of a Dob. How difficult is sky navigation. I was trying to find Polaris with the bins which I think I managed but was difficult with the bins as brings so many stars into view. I was able to find Polaris easily with just using my eyes. Thinking that it will be even harder with a telescope?

Thanks

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[Schorhr]

Hello,

Ask the Shop if they trade or bundle a Telrad Finder (or rigel quickfinder). Those are zero magnification finders. You See circles on a bit of plastic, and align the Stars that are visible to the naked eyes on the circles as Seen on Star Charts (Free available Online or buy a book).

This way you won't have to star hop a lot, as most objects will be right in the view of a low magnification eyepiece when using the telrad.

It can actually be quicker then seting up goto, especially if the alignment or setup is not 100% correct.

[hippie]

Dobsonian scopes are great light gathering buckets, Once you get used to nudging them around you will get more  enjoyment & get to learn the sky  by star hopping slowly over time, They are great scopes!

Welcome to the DOB mob in advance   .

[drnat]

Hello,

Ask the Shop if they trade or bundle a Telrad Finder (or rigel quickfinder). Those are zero magnification finders. You See circles on a bit of plastic, and align the Stars that are visible to the naked eyes on the circles as Seen on Star Charts (Free available Online or buy a book).

This way you won't have to star hop a lot, as most objects will be right in the view of a low magnification eyepiece when using the telrad.

It can actually be quicker then seting up goto, especially if the alignment or setup is not 100% correct.

Thanks, didn't really understand how a telrad works but that sounds ideal! Many thanks,

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[Donkeiller]

Star "hoping" is a very accurate description of attempting to navigate the night sky in an area subject to high LP.

I find "goto" an essential.

[Tinker1947]

Star hopping is easy with a Telrad and the free to download maps and Stellarium......Stellarium has the Telrad circles built in so you can get a idea of what the sky will look like before you buy.....

[rwilkey]

A good star atlas is always helpful, the Sky & Telescope Pocket Atlas by Roger Sinnott is a good one, otherwise the Cambridge Star Atlas is also great, I have both and they are very good.

[drnat]

A good star atlas is always helpful, the Sky & Telescope Pocket Atlas by Roger Sinnott is a good one, otherwise the Cambridge Star Atlas is also great, I have both and they are very good.

Thanks, shall check them out

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[Langy]

Someone recently created a post in here about star hopping and gave a few links. If you want to find the dimmer objects, then you (and me for that) will have to learn to star hop.

I've posted some useful links below which are always worth a read. I've downloaded all the star maps required and laminated them for when I start.

http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/triatlas.html Choose the A Set of maps here.

http://www.nightskyinfo.com/star-hopping/ Star hopping guide

http://washedoutastronomy.com/content/star-hopping-tutorial-lesson-one-m57 Another one

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/physics/astrocourses/AST101/labs/tl_starhop.html One more

http://www.solarius.net/Pages/Articles/dbArticle.aspx?artid=messier_finders Mpas for specific M objects

http://www.skymaps.com/downloads.html Useful for current maps

http://astronomychecklist.com/ Finally a list of some of the objects you may want to find

[ronin]

First get out with 2 eyes, more if you have them, and work out the constellations, as the idea of star hopping is to go from star to star you need the constellations fiirst.

Then get the binoculars and a few constellation guides and find out what is in each constellation, if you can see these thing easily by eye then point the binoculars at them, otherwise double check where they should be then point the binoculars at that spot. The more practise and results then the more confident you will be.

As to a finder there are about 4 or 5 different types and you will need to work out which one you get on with. I see more and more using a GLP as a finder. These do mean you need to know where to aim a scope as they have no additional light collection.

Being able to find things without any goto is really something you can do or cannot, equally so is using a goto. I have read posts of people going both ways. Some lose their dobsonian and get a goto then wonder why they didn't do it at the start, others lose a goto, get a dobsonian and find it easy. So there is no rule, and a lot will depend on the use you actually intend.

[drnat]

Someone recently created a post in here about star hopping and gave a few links. If you want to find the dimmer objects, then you (and me for that) will have to learn to star hop.

I've posted some useful links below which are always worth a read. I've downloaded all the star maps required and laminated them for when I start.

http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/triatlas.html Choose the A Set of maps here.

http://www.nightskyinfo.com/star-hopping/ Star hopping guide

http://washedoutastronomy.com/content/star-hopping-tutorial-lesson-one-m57 Another one

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/physics/astrocourses/AST101/labs/tl_starhop.html One more

http://www.solarius.net/Pages/Articles/dbArticle.aspx?artid=messier_finders Mpas for specific M objects

http://www.skymaps.com/downloads.html Useful for current maps

http://astronomychecklist.com/ Finally a list of some of the objects you may want to find

This is fantastic. Thanks, really really helpful. Shall fire up my laminator tonight!

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[drnat]

First get out with 2 eyes, more if you have them, and work out the constellations, as the idea of star hopping is to go from star to star you need the constellations fiirst.

Then get the binoculars and a few constellation guides and find out what is in each constellation, if you can see these thing easily by eye then point the binoculars at them, otherwise double check where they should be then point the binoculars at that spot. The more practise and results then the more confident you will be.

As to a finder there are about 4 or 5 different types and you will need to work out which one you get on with. I see more and more using a GLP as a finder. These do mean you need to know where to aim a scope as they have no additional light collection.

Being able to find things without any goto is really something you can do or cannot, equally so is using a goto. I have read posts of people going both ways. Some lose their dobsonian and get a goto then wonder why they didn't do it at the start, others lose a goto, get a dobsonian and find it easy. So there is no rule, and a lot will depend on the use you actually intend.

This is a really useful methodology. Some good prep-work to do prior to going out next me thinks!

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[baggywrinkle]

First get out with 2 eyes, more if you have them, and work out the constellations, as the idea of star hopping is to go from star to star you need the constellations fiirst.

Then get the binoculars and a few constellation guides and find out what is in each constellation, if you can see these thing easily by eye then point the binoculars at them, otherwise double check where they should be then point the binoculars at that spot. The more practise and results then the more confident you will be.

As to a finder there are about 4 or 5 different types and you will need to work out which one you get on with. I see more and more using a GLP as a finder. These do mean you need to know where to aim a scope as they have no additional light collection.

Being able to find things without any goto is really something you can do or cannot, equally so is using a goto. I have read posts of people going both ways. Some lose their dobsonian and get a goto then wonder why they didn't do it at the start, others lose a goto, get a dobsonian and find it easy. So there is no rule, and a lot will depend on the use you actually intend.

I was going to suggest on the same lines too. Yes use the bins, but first familiarise yourself with the basic constellations. Unless you can get these pictured in your head it is hard to star hop as you have no reference to the constellations and their brighter stars. You do not need to rememner them all but the basic ones, Ursa Major, Cassiopea, Orion, Leo, Gemini etc stick out more than others and make good guide posts.

[drnat]

Any 'must have' references for constellations? Looked at some on-line stuff & books....thanks

[brantuk]

A couple of great aids to pointing with a manual dob include an alt mounted angle guage like a Wixey, and an azimuth setting circle which can be printed off on clear plastic and stuck to the circumference of the dob base along with a wire pointer. There are plenty of references to this in the DIY section.

Before each session you can just write down the co-ords of each object you want to observe - taken from Stellaruim or Cartes du Ciel - and you'll be locating stuff quicker than a goto scope. The mods are dirt cheap (around £30 total), very easy to install (a Wixey is magnetic), and are incredibly accurate. Hth

[Owmuchonomy]

The only thing I would add is buy the book 'Turn Left at Orion'.  It will help you an awful lot like it did for my apprenticeship in observing.

[Jules Tohpipi]

If you have below-par orientation skills, enough LP, and are time poor, then a manual DOB can be a very frustrating experience. A Telrad certainly helps but didn't help enough for my scenario.

In the end I swallowed my pride and bought a Goto DOB. No, it's not a magic wand. However, used in the right way, dial in some PAE off stars in the nearby area, and it will get you there. I've seen a greater variety of objects in one week than the previous 12 months.

Conversely....

[Paul73]

You are definitely doing it the right way around.

Binos and a star atlas. You'll be surprised at what you can see. And, then amazed when you get your light gobbling Dob some time in the future.

It isn't unusually for big Dob users to tinker with the binos from time to time. You can't do that if you don't know the sky.

Paul

[LukeSkywatcher]

You are definitely doing it the right way around.

Binos and a star atlas. You'll be surprised at what you can see

IF you really want to learn the art of star hopping without the use of modern technology, then yes a pair of bins (i suggest 10x50) and a good star chart or book is the way to go.

It is the simplest,cheapest and most rewarding way to teach yourself around the night sky. It will stay with you for life. You will be able to take a walk on a clear night and look up and find your way around.

Personally, i think everyone who is into astronomy (imaging or observing) should have a basic grounding in the ability to navigate around the night sky with their eyes.

Ive been observing for about 34 yrs and only in the last 2 yrs have i ventured into the realm of Go-To, and i still dont use it. I still do things "old school".

You dont need to know every constellation in the sky per season. 2-3 each season will allow you to find your way around. 

[Blazar]

Have to agree with Ronin...learning the sky is so much more rewarding, and is part of the fun. last night went out with one o the refractors, yet stood most of the time working out my orientation and just marvelling at the beauty of it all (and watching a few shooting stars)...then from memory saw a group of stars and managed to put the great globular cluster straight into the EP of the scope. Without the basic year of wandering around the sky with the bins, and a small book then I would not have 'known' it should have been exactly where it was.

Good luck though.

[JessicaFaye]

I've still got so so much to learn but with the few things I know in the night sky I navigate pretty well... I started with getting to grips with Andromeda, Leo, Orion, Cassiopeia, Polaris, Jupiter as some key features and building from there... Then you can bore to death your loved ones and friends by pointing out all the things you know on a clear night  

[todd8137]

Hi and welcome ,your hitting the nail on the head with this post learning your way around the night skies before getting a scope if you spend a good few weeks doing this it will pay you back greatly in the future stick with the binos ,also rember when looking for stuff with a manual reflector to turn the maps upside down

Even if you get a goto type mount you still need to no a few named stars to get you aligned so stick at it spend a night looking around one constellation panning with bins will be great I still do it now for a quick astro fix

Pat

[LukeSkywatcher]

Even if you get a goto type mount you still need to no a few named stars to get you aligned

Very true. 

The destruction manual will not tell you this. 

[todd8137]

Even if you get a goto type mount you still need to no a few named stars to get you aligned

Very true. 

The destruction manual will not tell you this. 

Manual is that what the book is in the box ,it's still in it's wrapper

Pat

[Chris Rowland]

Yet last night - as a confirmed goto enthusiast - the call from a Dob owner came out "Chris - where's M97?".

I told them - and they found it.

So yes, no goto is fine, as long as there's someone with a goto scope around to help you point in the right direction

More seriously,

If you enjoy hunting for objects then you don't need goto.

If you enjoy looking at objects then goto will help.

Both approaches are perfectly valid, its what you enjoy doing.

Chris