"Why should I turn my lights off?"

[jnb]

We all would like to see less light pollution but given that our interest is no more a reason for a neighbour to turn their lights off than their interests are a reason to tolerate having their lights on how would you answer the question "why should I turn my lights off?"

For most people the money to run a light isn't an issue, the link between crime and lighting isn't recognised by most people (perhaps understandable as it is counterintuitive). Their lights do provide some limited value to them. Light pollution isn't socially offensive in the way that drink driving or even noise pollution might be. So without appeal to our special interest how would you answer that question?

[Mav359]

Difficult one that, you'd like to think that anyone who has seen a truly dark sky wouldn't ask that question even if they have no interest in astronomy. The problem is i don't think enough people have or ever will with things as they are.

The Crime & Lighting is the best argument especially in places like London or big cities but most people just don't buy that.

I do think the most effective way will be to appeal to their wallet and constantly remind them that it IS costing them more & more to light that bulb.

[Andy McK]

For nocturnal creatures to enjoy their environment,  to assist in your (or others) sleep patterns, to save energy (Every little helps?)

For courting couples find a dark corner for a "cuddle" (all though that might be a bit old fasioned now, I think they just tell their perents to go to bed so they can have downstairs to them selve's )

And finally (in my opiniobn) So your next door neighbour can use his telescope with out constantly swearing when a cat or bat set's off blackpool illuminations :grin:

[Stargazer_00]

My neighbour has an annoying security light that goes off continuously when the wind blows the trees, the branches movement sets the light off.

I am trying to come up with a way to tell them their light is annoying and needn't be going off all the time.

I was thinking of writing an anonymous letter and indicating the light is causing a problem.

[foundaplanet]

Unfortunately LP is not even on the minds of the masses as it has no obvious affect or bearing on their lives. Therefore there is not really anything we could say without getting one of those 'are you mad' looks.

I liken it to noise pollution, if I was to play my music at full volume with the doors and windows open day folk would soon find a problem with that. So I take the easy option and load up the car.

[MadAlbert]

A reasonable person would accept a reasonable explanation if, perhaps, you take a civilized and diplomatic approach.  Agreed, this would never guarantee success but it's the decent way.

[pete_l]

. So without appeal to our special interest how would you answer that question?

Forget any rational argument, or appealing to the benefit it gives the bunny-wunnies, bats or other small and furry creatures. The only approach that I can think of, that would hold sway with ordinary people is the simple, honest and straightforward: because I'm asking you nicely.

Once the conversation gets past that, into trying to supply reasons, legal positions or logic, the cause is already lost. If one person can't or won't go to the trouble of doing one small, simple, zero-cost and physically undemanding thing for another human-being's benefit; there's no point trying to persuade them to change their mind.

[hugobugo]

We have evolved to be fearful of the dark. So on there is an impossible argument to be had on social basis.

Environmentally and economically it can be argued that switching off your house lights, making your garden darker is better for you in your pocket and better for urban wildlife.

Environmentally and economically the argument for replacing expensive to run sodium lights with more efficient lighting is an easy argument to build upon. While local authorities role out this, they can at the same time use lights which for no extra cost are more effective in controlling light pollution.

As power costs grow public will slowly change habits and look for more efficient domestic lighting for interior and exterior. 

Why should I turn my light off? It saves me money!

[Astro Imp]

Some very good views here.

I am fortunate as my immediate neighbour is very understanding, in fact when I was out and she returned home quite late she apologised for the car lights and said that she would turn her kitchen light off as soon as she could. But I had previously given her the opportunity to view Jupiter, Saturn and the moon.

[jnb]

... Why should I turn my light off? It saves me money!

Unfortunately twice as much low energy lighting will both save them money and be twice as bad for light pollution.

[m sutton]

We could all move to France! I believe they have just passed their Dark Sky Law?

I appealed to my neighbour's better judgement! (I did say the darker the sky, the more the likely it was that I'd be out the back until all hours, like a sentinel heheh ).

[Macavity]

Had a lot of success with a young (family) guy with errant Hi-Watt (qv?) security light at the bottom of my garden! He understood about Astronomy... was genuinely contrite... AND very busy. I forgive him! He fixed the light - After a gentle (face to face) reminder. My current immediate neighbours have a bright PIR light, mounted on their garage, pointed *directly* at their conservatory a few feet away. It is only switched on when they (couple, barking DOG, two "strapping" teens) are in residence! I got the guy to (grudgingly) stop it flashing every time I merely opened my back door! It still flashes me on the way to my observatory... 

With some people you just sense you will get nowhere fast.   It may "escalate".

Genuine ignorance or the "Alpha Male" (It's my right! etc.) thing? Small mercies? 

A good reason to implement remote control of my observatory in this instance.

Right now spotlight seems to be bust! Probably no idea how to replace the bulb?

[Treeden]

... But I had previously given her the opportunity to view Jupiter, Saturn and the moon.

That's the way to go.  Use the "Wow!" factor. 

[cotterless45]

I bought a load of extended washing line poles and some old throws from charity shops and made an enclosure about 10x8 outside my shed.

I get no light nuisance from the neighbours, either from the Stalag security lights or the need not to put up blinds or curtains.

It's lovely and dark in there and little breeze. Best of all it didn't cost much and Mrs.C is happy as the whole thing comes down when not in use, hurrah,

Nick.

[AlexB67]

I guess I am partly lucky, but apart from the nuisance of a street light nearby that directly shines to the garden, that I can avoid it in several spots, the houses around me are very good with turning lights off. Certainly after 12  it is decent in that regard, nobody leaves a light on. 

I'll try and contact the council and see if they can put a shade on the one lamp post that is a tad annoying since the south side is actually quite good, but that light partly ruins it, and since some seem to have had success with appealing to the council putting shades on lamp posts, who knows, they may even do something 

I agree with Pete, if I did have a neighbour I'd just ask nicely and just explain it as it is, I have a hobby, do some astronomy, would it be possible to turn the light off, no lectures or this or that, the best way I think    For that matter I'd consider doing the same with the council and that street light.  Sometimes asking nicely can get a lot done, depending who it is, and if they want to charge a 100 quid for it, as I hear sometimes they do because there is nothing in it for them, so be it.

[Qualia]

As I look across the city at night from my roof in Spain it isn't light pollution from the flats or homes which causes a problem. There is very little light streaming from apartment buildings and after midnight virtually none at all. Where the LP comes from where I live are the roads - street lights, cars, the traffic lights, bridges. It's a mad suggestion but I wish the authorities would switch of most of those unnecessary street lights, and seriously get all car owners to sort out their lamps, hood traffic lights, drive bridges in the dark, and the such.

[Raga]

What you should do is take a panoramic picture of your neighbours garden at night from the viewpoint of their windows. Then print them off and blow them up so they fit across the neighbours window and pin them up there as you set up (without being seen)Tthen get some blackboard paint that you have left from painting things like the bottom of your focuser tube and set to work on said light and sensor.

Now go set up, sit back and enjoy.

Just don't forget to remove the pictures from the windows before you pack away.

[jonathan]

My neighbour has an annoying security light that goes off continuously when the wind blows the trees, the branches movement sets the light off.

I am trying to come up with a way to tell them their light is annoying and needn't be going off all the time.

I was thinking of writing an anonymous letter and indicating the light is causing a problem.

Might be a bit tricky, but how about mounting a mirror that reflects the light directly into their living room / bedroom.  Then they would know how annoying it is!

[TenBears]

Might be a bit tricky, but how about mounting a mirror that reflects the light directly into their living room / bedroom.  Then they would know how annoying it is!

LMAO.  Have to try that. 

[Pig]

I must be quite fortunate with my neighbours, I simply ask them to turn them off and they are always happy to do so   most of the time they do not realise they have left them on

[bmc]

ii was having issues with my neighbors security light blinking on constantly. but after a polite request to turn it off when i have my scope out, coupled with an invite to look at Saturn (she then experienced the annoyance of her light), i now have a dark garden

[Jase_v2]

I live in a semi rural location and also work nights - I have security lights, as do most of my neighbours. My light coming on through the night alerted my dog to some scrotes trying to rob my heating oil, so I wouldnt be without them ( we only have 1 street light in our hamlet 200 yrds from my house). I knock em off for my own observing but I honestly wouldnt be without them. Sorry if this is a controvertial opinion.

[Kit-Fox]

I live in a semi rural location and also work nights - I have security lights, as do most of my neighbours. My light coming on through the night alerted my dog to some scrotes trying to rob my heating oil, so I wouldnt be without them ( we only have 1 street light in our hamlet 200 yrds from my house). I knock em off for my own observing but I honestly wouldnt be without them. Sorry if this is a controvertial opinion.

In that situation surely a security camera or two with IR leds would be a better prospect ? 

And those cameras have come down ain price a lot since their introduction so that they are now affordable to pretty much anyone who wants one, you would have evidence to provide to the police that would potentially identify the scrotes & in case anything untoward happened it would be a record that would hopefully help you case (of say for example self  defence of your property)

[JamesF]

I live in a semi rural location and also work nights - I have security lights, as do most of my neighbours. My light coming on through the night alerted my dog to some scrotes trying to rob my heating oil, so I wouldnt be without them ( we only have 1 street light in our hamlet 200 yrds from my house). I knock em off for my own observing but I honestly wouldnt be without them. Sorry if this is a controvertial opinion.

It's perhaps controversial, but it may also be an erroneous conclusion.  The dog may well have been alerted to the scrotes trying to steal your oil even without the security light.  It may just be that you became aware of the issue after the light came on and associated the two.  It may perhaps have been the noise they made that alerted the dog.  Or it may not have been.  Unless the dog has explained itself, it may be hard to be sure

James

[jnb]

I live in a semi rural location and also work nights - I have security lights, as do most of my neighbours. My light coming on through the night alerted my dog to some scrotes trying to rob my heating oil, so I wouldnt be without them ( we only have 1 street light in our hamlet 200 yrds from my house). I knock em off for my own observing but I honestly wouldnt be without them. Sorry if this is a controvertial opinion.

If you mean that your lights were on a sensor and triggered then I wouldn`t see that as controversial at all. It`s a light doing something useful but not running when it`s not needed. There can still be problems; is it a 400w flood when 100W would do, is the sensor too trigger happy, is it pointing at the ground or the sky, but assuming those answers are ok then there`s nothing wrong with the light. It also shows why lights in themselves are no use. If the lights were on all the time then no-one would notice when they come on.