Lazy Mans Astronomy? Or not

[Hemsy]

Hi Guys - being currently an owner of 15x70 Bins I get a real sense of achievement in locating an object by learning about the night sky and using the stars/ constellations as markers to hone in to what I am looking for.

The Go-To range of telescopes seem really excellent and useful, however in your expert opinions does this take anything away from the whole experience for you?

I am tempted to purchase a GO-TO model, but have the impression this will take that "special feeling" away when you do locate a planet, nebula or other target by just pressing a few keys on the handset.

I guess everyone has different ideas and uses for their Scopes so I would love to hear what your thoughts are????

Thanks,

Ed

[brantuk]

Hi Ed - imho there's nothing wrong with goto - if you're pressed for time and want to get through a load of objects in a couple of hours it's ideal - and if you're imaging it's pretty much essential so you can devote the time to grabbing subs.

Push to is also very rewarding in that it helps you to build a knowledge of the sky and gives you a thrill when you locate something. It can be quick too if you have accurate setting circles and know how to use them.

Horses for courses really - all depends on what the individual wants to get out of astronomy, their aspirations, and personal preferences/criteria. I like to think neither is lazy or bad in any way - just different

[lw24]

Hi,

I started a thread on this before, and got a varied response. GoTo definitely has its uses: imaging, you spend more time viewing instead of finding, in light polluted areas star hopping is difficult etc.

I myself, prefer the lack of GoTo, as I enjoy the thrill of finding an object myself.

But that's just me

[old glyn]

I can only echo brantuk's words. Without a go-to device much time is taken in just locating an object - usually more time that is spent viewing it. Our unreliable weather makes a go-to essential for me as even on half-decent nights there are some clouds aloft.

[blinky]

GoTo is great for imaging but I guess it does loose something visually. The problem I have is that I have that much light pollution that finding stars to navigate by when using non goto makes the whole experience a nightmare. If I had a dark site then a large push to Dob would be great.

[Macavity]

Astronomers come from various backgrounds - Financial, Physical - Even (dare I say!) intellectual? LOL. There is a... "puritan work ethic", occasionally mooted, but I sincerely and passionately believe that Astronomy should be accessible to Everyone. Take advice, but "do your own thing" (Man!)...

[pete_l]

One mans "lazy" is another mans "efficient".

Is it lazy to do the minimum amount of work needed to achieve your goal, or is that simply being efficient? They're both the same thing but the words we use to describe the effect colours our (and others) judgment about whether it's a desirable attribute or a bad one.

It all depends what you want out of astronomy (or even if you want one single thing, or many). Do you want it to be like going for a walk: exploring as you go and not being sure what you'll find along the way. Or do you want it to be like collecting something (stamps?): amassing as many as you can in a given amount of time and having that as your reward?

I would expect most people would like a bit of both. In which case, get a GOTO telescope and have the option to switch off the computer.

[Ant]

I moved over to GOTO for the simple reason that with the skies that I had the objects that I wanted to photograph were not visible through a scope.

It really came home one evening when I spent my entire imaging session trying to find something and failed.

So for some GOTO is a necessity, for others it's a time saving thing. Some don't know any different as the scopes that they have bought have always had GOTO, and for some they avoid it like the plague.

Cheers

Ant

[barkis]

Goto is a convenience, and obviously a great benefit to imaging astronomy because of the time saving in quick location of objects.

Visual astronomers also take advantage of the technology, but I'm sure there are still many who prefer to expand their own personal memory database, by learning the sky, and using natural pointers in the sky to locate Deep Sky Objects.

Most telescopes are supplied with setting circles, but due to their size are damned hard work to use, and cause more frustration than anything else.

How nice it is at a star party, when a humble observer, trying hard to find a particular Body with his non goto newt, is helped out by a colleague, who's map of the sky is in his mind, and proceeds to position the telescope on to the object for him.

If you have time, and the patience, make it a challenge to teach yourself to learn the sky. It will give you great satisfaction, and You will be pleased you did.

Ron.

[ronin]

A small goto is great as a grab and go scope. If it can be run from a mains supply or a car even better.

Have seen many arguements about this and as previously said get what suits you.

All of the scope types have plus points and minus points. However ultimately the idea is to see the object that you have chosen. A goto will help with regards to that.

Yes you get a smaller scope with a goto, but did you really think that the manufacturers would give away the motors, circuit boards and associated bits for nothing?

Also on a goto the alignment is not stand on the ground and hope for the best. You have to align it and you have to do it as accurately as possible.

Concern I have at this time is the number of posts about failures and problems on Skywatcher/Celestron systems.

[RayGil]

Being someone who has had both types of scopes and mounts I can honestly say I have learned more with the GOTO set-up than I have ever learned with the manual set up.

Previous to my current set-up which is a SkyWatcher 200p (8” Mirror) and a EQ5 with SynScan GOTO added I have either manual mounts or mounts with a RA tracking motor for photography.

Both Refractors and Reflectors and I certainly prefer reflectors unless you have a very large wallet.

Now unless you use your telescope for large bright objects and have loads of free time then I would certainly choose the GOTO every time.

If you like me and have a work schedule and family like to slot in around you hobby (should that be the other way around?) You will find a manual telescope very frustrating on anything other that the brightest object in out solar system.

I may only have a couple of hours to go out with the scope and I have spent many frustrating hours searching for DSO’s (Deep Space Objects) and getting nowhere, arriving back home without seeing the objects I was searching for. What did I learn from this experience? Space is very big!

Now since having the GOTO option I have learned, a lot about Polar alignment, how to set up and telescope correctly, how to align a telescope to 3 bright stars, to get correct alignment. Just learning the bright visible stars is an achievement and if you go at different times of the night and months throughout the year you get to learn all about the local bright stars that you need to know for correct alignment.

When I go out these days it what used to take me 10 minutes to set up (Manual) now takes me 30-40 minutes to get everything, balanced, polar aligned, and GOTO 3 star alignment set up, but once set up correctly that is it for the observing session.

A full catalogue of objects and planets are at my finger tips, full visual tracking of objects, anyone who has manually found DSO objects in the eyepiece only for a few seconds later is gone? Things move fast out there! The bigger your scope and the higher power eyepiece you use the smaller your field of view and you are constantly adjusting your scope, where as with the GOTO option once correctly set up objects remain the the FOV for very much longer in fact nearly all night if required.

I can spend most of my evenings observing session actually viewing the objects I wanted to view from my observing lists, and yes I'm learning more about the night sky than ever before simply because GOTO made it a less frustrating experience and allowed me to spend my time with the telescope doing what I like to do, which is view our vast expanding universe.

People who say to me you are not learning about the hobby is rubbish, I have learned more since I went GOTO than ever before, If you want to learn the sky manually that's great get a star map book and a pair of binoculars and enjoy your hobby, but to say to me I know more about the sky than you, could be true? But ask your self this! What did you come into the hobby for? To sit there night after night learning star charts so you could point out to people oh there is M31 or M57? Or did you come into the hobby to view the wonders of the night sky and out planets? Just because I have a GOTO telescope does not mean I'm not learning, in fact I could point out a vast amount of objects and planets in out sky, simply because once GOTO has positioned the scope and cantered the object, that's not the end! I step back from the eyepiece and look up “Oh that's where it is” can I see it in binoculars? What's the nearest constellation? Any bright known stars in the FOV. GOTO simply means you have options, how you use those options depends on the person. For me the whole galaxy is there, and other galaxies as well so don't be an Astro Snob! GOTO is a fantastic achievement for the average astronomer and has released the hobby into the 21st century

.

My telescope time is no longer a frustrating experience and is more a giant learning curve learning about DSO’s, nebula's and galaxies and I've now moving on to astro-photography this again is another massive learning curve, but now I have the time to learn about the photography side knowing that I can at least find the DSO objects next step is photographing them

[philhas]

I often use my goto in manual mode on really clear night's:icon_confused: but when most of the time you are dealing with clouds coming in and heavy dew in the air (I live by the sea) its nice to be able to dial the DSO:)

[philhas]

Oh and by the way well said Ray

[MorningMajor]

For a whole raft of different opinions check this thread out.

I've got a goto and hopefully in the next month or so I'm going to buy a Dob - so I guess I'll find out for myself then!

[Polar Bear]

Well as usual this question has opened the proverbial 'can of worms' again.

What must be remembered is that the equipment we all use is purely 'a means to an end' and as such what you want to do will determine what equipment is suitable for you.

Astronomy is such a broad church that there is no right or wrong way just a multitude of different ways. To some it can be as simple as learning the night skies using sky charts , a comfy chair and some inexpensive binoculars. Others like to sit in their observatories with huge expensive scopes controlled by laptops. Some like to 'bag' objects in the night sky using go-to whilst others search for comets and pay no attention to Messier and NGC objects.

Best way forward for yourself is to decide early on what you want to do and seek out others who like to observe the same things and seek their guidance.

I am sure Go-To helps some whilst others are happier seeking out objects without the aid of electronics. If cost is an issue I would suggest spending on optics rather than electronics but again , this is just a personal choice. What must be remembered is most discoveries in the heavens were made in a pre-electronic age , indeed a majority were made pre-electric ! George Alcock was discovering Super Nova in the 1960's with a pair of 11 x 80's .

Paul

[JamesM]

Astrophotography aside, as a visual person I enjoy the benefits of 'Goto'. Like Ray, I feel I have learnt an awful lot about the location of objects and the opportunity to stand back and see the object in a wider context without having to find them again. I enjoy the ability to programme the handset to show objects of my choosing (that might not be on the list) which is invaluable with outreach/public work and enables as many people as possible to see these objects in the short time that is often available. Being able to pick out an object when the sky is partially cloudy is also very useful as you let the system find it and then wait for the clouds to clear to take a look - almost impossible to do manually with your reference stars constantly being hidden. To observe when it's a little cloudy is far from ideal BUT given the weather as of late it can often be the only opportunity that you have to get out there. I wouldn't say that 'Goto' is better, just simply that it is a very useful bit of kit to have and of course you can always turn it off and go manual if you want - you can't turn on/off what you haven't got.

Having said all of the above, there is of course another side to all this. One of the 'temptations' with this kit is to rifle through list after list because it is just a button press away, "is that it!.......right, now let's look at the next one". Many of you who have spent ages trying to find an object manually, are more likely to spend more time with it once you've found it which supports the argument that giving a little bit of extra time does reveal more detail, helps to remember it's differences to similar objects which together will improve observations skills. The other problem with having 'Goto', is not so much to do with the technology itself but more to do with budget. There is really no point in buying gear that will show you where an object is, if your remaining budget has meant that you can only choose a smaller scope that may not in the end reveal what the system is pointing at. It may well say there are 14,000 objects on the data base, but it doesn't mean you will be able to see all of them. Lastly, the manual way of finding objects should not be forgotten entirely, as the visual observers amongst us will almost inevitably end up with a very large dobsonian which, unless you can afford expensive encoders, will require you have a good knowledge of the sky in order to heal yourself before the next bout of aperture fever!

Goto is great, providing you have set things up correctly but as with any advantage, it can encourage laziness when it comes to actually observing the objects. Remember, you can always switch it off!

James

[Pete Presland]

this question must be asked as much as any on here,do whatever pleases you is the only answer really.if the search and find rocks your boat great if not the goto is the one for you.given a choice between aperture and goto personally its aperture every time

[Hemsy]

Being someone who has had both types of scopes and mounts I can honestly say I have learned more with the GOTO set-up than I have ever learned with the manual set up.

Previous to my current set-up which is a SkyWatcher 200p (8” Mirror) and a EQ5 with SynScan GOTO added I have either manual mounts or mounts with a RA tracking motor for photography.

Both Refractors and Reflectors and I certainly prefer reflectors unless you have a very large wallet.

Now unless you use your telescope for large bright objects and have loads of free time then I would certainly choose the GOTO every time.

If you like me and have a work schedule and family like to slot in around you hobby (should that be the other way around?) You will find a manual telescope very frustrating on anything other that the brightest object in out solar system.

I may only have a couple of hours to go out with the scope and I have spent many frustrating hours searching for DSO’s (Deep Space Objects) and getting nowhere, arriving back home without seeing the objects I was searching for. What did I learn from this experience? Space is very big!

Now since having the GOTO option I have learned, a lot about Polar alignment, how to set up and telescope correctly, how to align a telescope to 3 bright stars, to get correct alignment. Just learning the bright visible stars is an achievement and if you go at different times of the night and months throughout the year you get to learn all about the local bright stars that you need to know for correct alignment.

When I go out these days it what used to take me 10 minutes to set up (Manual) now takes me 30-40 minutes to get everything, balanced, polar aligned, and GOTO 3 star alignment set up, but once set up correctly that is it for the observing session.

A full catalogue of objects and planets are at my finger tips, full visual tracking of objects, anyone who has manually found DSO objects in the eyepiece only for a few seconds later is gone? Things move fast out there! The bigger your scope and the higher power eyepiece you use the smaller your field of view and you are constantly adjusting your scope, where as with the GOTO option once correctly set up objects remain the the FOV for very much longer in fact nearly all night if required.

I can spend most of my evenings observing session actually viewing the objects I wanted to view from my observing lists, and yes I'm learning more about the night sky than ever before simply because GOTO made it a less frustrating experience and allowed me to spend my time with the telescope doing what I like to do, which is view our vast expanding universe.

People who say to me you are not learning about the hobby is rubbish, I have learned more since I went GOTO than ever before, If you want to learn the sky manually that's great get a star map book and a pair of binoculars and enjoy your hobby, but to say to me I know more about the sky than you, could be true? But ask your self this! What did you come into the hobby for? To sit there night after night learning star charts so you could point out to people oh there is M31 or M57? Or did you come into the hobby to view the wonders of the night sky and out planets? Just because I have a GOTO telescope does not mean I'm not learning, in fact I could point out a vast amount of objects and planets in out sky, simply because once GOTO has positioned the scope and cantered the object, that's not the end! I step back from the eyepiece and look up “Oh that's where it is” can I see it in binoculars? What's the nearest constellation? Any bright known stars in the FOV. GOTO simply means you have options, how you use those options depends on the person. For me the whole galaxy is there, and other galaxies as well so don't be an Astro Snob! GOTO is a fantastic achievement for the average astronomer and has released the hobby into the 21st century

.

My telescope time is no longer a frustrating experience and is more a giant learning curve learning about DSO’s, nebula's and galaxies and I've now moving on to astro-photography this again is another massive learning curve, but now I have the time to learn about the photography side knowing that I can at least find the DSO objects next step is photographing them

Well sir, you've convinced me. My biggest fear would be that the excitement would be short lived. However if I read that, its quite the opposite....Best add for GO-TO scopes ever. Perhaps FLO could use something like that on their site.

[James]

..... I get a real sense of achievement in locating an object by learning about the night sky and using the stars/ constellations as markers to hone in to what I am looking for. ....

You may have answered your own question there Personally I like goto - for the investment of a few minutes setup time I can see many more objects later should I choose to.

Whilst I'm capable of star hopping I get impatient doing so sometimes hence my use of goto.

If you get a sense of achievement from using your bin's in this way just think how it'll feel when you home into a faint globular/nebula/galaxy at the limit of your scopes ability...

James

[swamp thing]

Now unless you use your telescope for large bright objects and have loads of free time then I would certainly choose the GOTO every time.

So, any scope without Goto is only fit for bright objects?

So when I wish to observe some really faint Galaxies I would be better off selling my 16" Dob and buying a 102mm Goto would I??

Horses for courses buddy come on. For faint Galaxies you need aperture. The mount don't matter as long as it's stable.

Regards Steve

[philhas]

So, any scope without Goto is only fit for bright objects?

So when I wish to observe some really faint Galaxies I would be better off selling my 16" Dob and buying a 102mm Goto would I??

Horses for courses buddy come on. For faint Galaxies you need aperture. The mount don't matter as long as it's stable.

Regards Steve

You could sell it and buy First Light Optics - Skywatcher Skyliner 400P FlexTube GOTO

[swamp thing]

You could sell it and buy First Light Optics - Skywatcher Skyliner 400P FlexTube GOTO

No thanks, when I sell it, it will be to go bigger not electric.

Don't get me wrong I think it's a great tool. It's just for DS observing I think its not needed.

Finding the telescopic Planets and other small bright things, Goto is great but you can't miss a Galaxy in the eyepiece.

Regards Steve

[philhas]

No thanks, when I sell it, it will be to go bigger not electric.

Regards Steve

Well that's true, you can't beat aperture. Wish I had the funds for a big Dob...I wouldn't care if it were Goto or manual!

[MorningMajor]

It always help to have a bit of sky knowledge - so when your goto zooms off in totally the wrong direction you know you're not aligned properly!

[Macavity]

I think there's still an opening for someone to make the consumate "Grab and Go", Alt-Azimuth(!), GoTo mount. Arguably Ioptron do this already <G> - A bit of hard standing... a digital level - You can "Synch" to objects all night long, with a Handset... But maybe not quite so easily, via "Planetarium" Software on a Netbook?

I have no REAL problems with the "dark side" - (Video) imaging, but aligning an equatorial for "GoTo", EQ-Moding - using CdC etc., requires a certain... "Application". Even if you build an observatory. <sigh> Paradoxically, I think (Alt-Azimuth) GoTo is a good leaning tool! Having "Gone to" certain targets, with a Synscan, I can now find them quasi-instinctively, using more "traditional methods"... Ah, would I was younger, fitter?