A little knowledge

[rowan46]

My daughter was in her science class yesterday. A picture was shown on the white board and the question was asked

"Does anybody know what this is?"

"Its a nebula replied my daughter"

"That's correct. Do you know which one?"

"M42" said my daughter

"you can't take random numbers" said the teacher "That's silly."

The class laughed at my daughter and she came home embarrassed. She told me the story this morning and I asked her if she found out what the nebula was called.

"yes" replied my daughter "The teacher said it was called the Orion Nebula"

My daughter was embarrassed by this woman. So I thought that turnabout is fair play. So to all the teachers who know half their subject and think they know it all. This one is for you

[Demonperformer]

I hope your daughter is going to direct her teacher to this thread ...

[valleyman]

A quick letter to the head and an apologie from the teacher seems to be in order.

At least your daughter is getting all the correct information at home.

[bish]

I would be very tempted to let the teacher know that they don't know enough to be teaching the subject. A letter to the head as suggested above is probably the best way.

[LeoLion]

The approach from the teacher should have been to ask " why did you identify it as M42 ? " and then he/she may have received the useful feedback that would have extended their( and the classes ) knowledge . To be dismissive ( plus create a class laugh ) can easily destroy the fragile flower of a future scientist.

Recently several members of my astro society had a great evening at a primary school (luckily with clear skies ) with a good science teacher . The kids knowledge level varied a lot (and some knew a great deal , inc mums and dads) but it was an absolute pleasure with all of them adding to the classroom with views with their own eyes . Plied with pizza and coffee at the scopes too !

[JB80]

You can be even more proud of your daughter now

I do hope that the teacher will be enlightened sometime soon, just give her a book with M42 in it to take to class so she can explain and show to the room that she was correct after all.

[steppenwolf]

Definitely a letter to the teacher is in order here.

A couple of years ago, I arranged a visit to Patrick Moore for the 10 year old son of the guy who got me into astronomy in the first place and Zak and Patrick got on really well especially as Zak is very bright, eager to learn and fascinated by the cosmos. On the Monday morning they had 'show and tell' at school where the children tell the class what they did on the weekend. Zak proudly talked of his visit to Selsey and showed the class his signed copy of 'Patrick Moore on the Moon' given to him as a gift during his visit - the teacher asked him "Who is Patrick Moore?" !!!! Zak was totally deflated .....

[banner001]

at age 11 i had an argument with my school chemistry teacher...at age 12 i passed my chemistry GCSE which i did at night school

[vulcan]

At secondary school, my maths teacher drew a diagram of the Solar System on the blackboard but got the orbits of Earth and Mars transposed in order. When I pointed this out, I similarly got laughed at - after all, teacher knows best

[Adamski]

I think your daughter deserves a medal for her knowledge, and also take in the relevant proof and produce it in class in front of the pupils and correct the teacher for every body to see. She could redeem herself very well cos she is right after all.

[Gamma Ray]

This is that moment, which is actually rather sad, when you realise as a child that teachers don't know it all.

[Dai150PL]

I feel very sorry for your daughter, and there is a need for a call to the school. There was no reason for her to be spoken to like that, please make the teacher aware that he/she was wrong on so many levels. I am with pibbles, let your daughter take in a book for her class mates.

[kharga]

I feel sorry for your daughter - get her to take the book in and show the whole class that she was right.

The same thing happened to my son when they were discussing volcanoes. He said that there used to be a volcanoe nearby. He was told he was wrong, so the next day he took in my book "Geology in the Peak district" which explains that Carlton Low is infact the remains of a volcanoe. His teacher had the grace to appologise and say that he had learnt something that day.

[Brent]

I'm really stunned by this!

A teacher can't possibly know everything but we are talking basics of the subject here and as already said, the correct way to answer your daughter would have been to ask " why M42 ? ".

Your daughter was belittled and, as already suggested, I would send a letter to the head and get an apology for your daughter in front of the class.

[Ags]

I remember my science teacher explaining that rockets don't work in space because there is nothing to push against! She was quite good usually - I decided it was just a momentary brain failure which can happen to anyone.

Get your daughter to bring in an astro mag with a picture of M42, that will show the teacher.

[FLO]

I have two young sons and would be equally as miffed if it happened to either of them. Fortunately I think most teachers would handle a situation like that better. I remember when I was a young lad I found on a beach what I thought was a piece of fossilised dinosaur egg (I was really into dinosaurs!). It was of course the remains of a fishing float. I took it into school to show my teacher. Rather than embarrass me in front of the whole class, he looked suitably impressed and offered to run some tests before confirming the find. Next day he took me aside and gently explained what it was and how the sand had abraded it in such a way to make it look remarkably like a fossil. There are some excellent teachers out there.

I now live near Devon's Jurassic coast so have no difficulty finding fossils

Steve

[DarkSky71]

teacher probably thought M42 was a motorway

[Bulkins]

I certainly think something should be done but I also think that teachers that don't understand the fundamental need to nurture (and this appears to be the case here) can also be small-minded enough to bear a grudge. But I'm sure Rowan46 will know that diplomacy is required.

[inksmithy]

The teacher doesnt need to be made to look an idiot in front of the class, but speaking as someone who has a fairly precocious kid as well, the child needs to have the background sense of indignation that she was laughed at unfairly put to rest.

As has been suggested, I would support the idea that she goes into the school with a book showing a picture of the nebula and an explanation of the M42 identifier.

Again, as a person with kids who sometimes look like they are smarter than I am, I think the teacher is a bit of a fool for introducing a topic they didn't even have the most basic information about. I wouldn't expect a high school science teacher to necessarily know the ins and outs of the Messier list, but I would expect them to know it exists and if they were going to show a picture of one, I would expect them to know what number it was!.

That teacher doesnt need to be embarrassed, but does need to be set straight and if its by your daughter, then two birds have been hit by one stone.

My .02p.

Alan

[Woking]

Agree with the diplomatic posts above by just suggesting your daughter takes in a book with a picture of M42 and details. Situation would be gently corrected and both teacher and classmates can further increase their knowledge and hopefully interest.

Well done to your daughter by the way and also think it's great that Nebula and guess wider astronomy topics are covered on her school's curriculum. I can't remember any reference to space in my science subjects all those years ago!

[Viv]

Always remember the old saying - those who know do, whose who don't - teach !!

I know we have a couple of guys here, who are awsome teachers & so enthuastic for sharing knowledge - unfortunately not all are like that.

Letter is needed & just wait until parents evening !

[Domis]

Many years ago in 3rd grade we were studying Nature Sciences when the subject of hibernation came up.The school supplied text book used bears as an example of animals that hibernate.The week before I had watched a wildlife documentary which claimed otherwise.I informed the teacher of this and was told that what was in our text books was what was right.That evening at home,I looked it up in an encyclopedia which confirmed that bears do not "truly hibernate".My parents told me to bring the encylopedia to school the next day and show the teacher,which I did.She simply said Ok and set the book down.Two days later after she apparently did her own investigating,she sat me down with paper and pencil and guided me in how to write a letter to both the publisher and author of the schools text book explaining the difference between a bears "winter sleep" and actual hibernation , informational resources used and to ask them to correct any future editions of the text books.To this day I feel as though she was the best teacher I ever had.

[calibos]

I would be against the idea of sending a letter to the head. The formal complaint might be taken gracefully by the teacher or It might breed resentment on the part of the teacher which does no favours for your daughter.

I would go with the other idea proposed by others already. Give your daughter a book to bring the next day she has that class and tell her to approach the teacher at the beginning of class with the book. Tell the daughter not to broach the subject in a "Na Na nanana' I was right, you were wrong way though! Hopefully the teacher will apologise and explain to the class that your daughter was right after all and she will go from being the subject of laughter from the class to gaining Kudos from the class for proving the teacher wrong.

[rowan46]

I got more info from my daughter today. It seems they were doing physics and there were 2 teachers one was explaining nuclear fission, which she appears to have understood and the other was explaining nuclear fusion which appears to have gone in one ear and out the other. The pic of M42 was brought in as an example of nuclear fusion, it seems the subject wasn't astronomy. Although this explains and to some extent mitigates the teachers ignorance that was never my issue in the first place. No subject is small enough for a teacher to know everything it's this attitude that some adults have to children to appear all knowing thus undermining a childs self confidence by giving conflicting or erroneous information. I like the way some of the teachers have handled things on this thread and think the best way of dealing with a precocious child is to admit ignorance and agree to get back with a credible scource.

To get back to the story it seems these teachers were having a teaching assessement as part of the interview process and that the lady who taught about fusion didn't get the job. A shame because she sounded keen just needed to go that extra mile perhaps.

No point in taking a book in my daughter says as apparently none of her classmates care if she as right or wrong, the teacher wasn't at school today and my daughter doesn't think she will be back. My daughter thanks you all for the comments as they have made her feel a little less foolish.

[brantuk]

Hope your daughter feels a lot better now - tell her from me she was spot on correct - no matter what the teacher said

(We should send the boys around to give the teacher a good slap for being a pratt lol)