SpaceX go boom!

[Guest]

Well.... This is rocket science, booms are to be expected i suppose. 

[RT65CB-SWL]

17 minutes ago, icpn said:

pity Musk was not on it

I could think of a few others other than Elon Musk. At least he has re-ignited the space-race.

[DaveS]

Some videos of Raptor engines test firing and gimbaling

 

 

[DaveGarland]

I might be wrong but I thought I heard "main engine cut off" and then "waiting for separation". But to me those engines looked like they were still firing? 

[Ags]

It got off the launch pad and flew quite far downrange, so for me it was a definite success. Most people I speak to equate explosion to failure however.

SpaceX have revolutionized space travel, and this rocket looks on track to be another feather in their cap. 

[Elp]

Aren't fireworks designed to go boom? They were launching rockets space bound early to mid last century with much more basic tech (and likely better skills). 33 engines just sounds ridiculous, even basic logic dictates you keep things simple for less things to go wrong.

[DaveGarland]

I agree. Space X must have NASA quaking in their boots. There's a lot that Elon can be criticised for but he's got an incredible mind. He just seems to come up with new ways of doing things. Maybe an aspect of his Asperger's? I dunno but SpaceX is definitely exciting. Bring on the next launch. 

19 minutes ago, Ags said:

It got off the launch pad and flew quite far downrange, so for me it was a definite success. Most people I speak to equate explosion to failure however.

SpaceX have revolutionized space travel, and this rocket looks on track to be another feather in their cap. 

 

[cajen2]

They keep saying "We'll be learning a lot from this!" Like not building rockets that explode? 😛

[Stu]

Without wishing to cause any offence, I do have a wry smile when I read criticisms about SpaceX engineering approach and whether this launch was a failure or not, or whether just getting a 120m tall rocket with twice the power of any previous rocket off the pad is having low expectations! The sheer complexity not only of the rocket but the infrastructure to support it and the speed with which they are achieving it is mind blowing I think.

It is self evident that, like him or loath him, Elon Musk has personally driven a revolution in rocket technology, achieved by his fail and iterate rapidly approach. His Falcon rockets have over 100 return and re-use successes, and it wasn’t all that long ago that landing boosters vertically as they do was literally the stuff of Thunderbirds.

There are a relatively small number of people who actually change the direction humanity takes (whether you like that change or not); Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, Larry Page cover a lot of the recent ones, and Musk has to be on this list too.

Anyway, what was my point? Oh yes. Let’s just enjoy the ride, it’s an amazing time to be alive and watch the progress which is being made. I’m quite sure they have thought of everything which has been mentioned and covered it off, they are quite good at this stuff after all. It must be amazing to be amongst the engineers actually achieving this stuff! Great fun, although I bet they put the hours in!

[DaveGarland]

10 minutes ago, Stu said:

Without wishing to cause any offence, I do have a wry smile when I read criticisms about SpaceX engineering approach and whether this launch was a failure or not, or whether just getting a 120m tall rocket with twice the power of any previous rocket off the pad is having low expectations! The sheer complexity not only of the rocket but the infrastructure to support it and the speed with which they are achieving it is mind blowing I think.

It is self evident that, like him or loath him, Elon Musk has personally driven a revolution in rocket technology, achieved by his fail and iterate rapidly approach. His Falcon rockets have over 100 return and re-use successes, and it wasn’t all that long ago that landing boosters vertically as they do was literally the stuff of Thunderbirds.

There are a relatively small number of people who actually change the direction humanity takes (whether you like that change or not); Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, Larry Page cover a lot of the recent ones, and Musk has to be on this list too.

Anyway, what was my point? Oh yes. Let’s just enjoy the ride, it’s an amazing time to be alive and watch the progress which is being made. I’m quite sure they have thought of everything which has been mentioned and covered it off, they are quite good at this stuff after all. It must be amazing to be amongst the engineers actually achieving this stuff! Great fun, although I bet they put the hours in!

What you said 👏

[SamAndrew]

Just getting this thing off the ground was a great success, the design and engines were obsolete ages ago, they just used it because it was built and ready to go. They're hampered by the poor initial launch tower design, the foundations for which were layed down years ago, and have since been improved with the new tower in Florida. The lack of flame diverter meant the rebound from the ground was most likely what took out the 4 engines initially, and further damage probably caused the failure of the other engines in flight and eventual loss of control. 

1 hour ago, Elp said:

Aren't fireworks designed to go boom? They were launching rockets space bound early to mid last century with much more basic tech (and likely better skills). 33 engines just sounds ridiculous, even basic logic dictates you keep things simple for less things to go wrong.

They use lots of smaller engines because they're easier to restart, throttle, and gimble, which are all vital to make this rocket reusable. There' no way you could throttle a rocket to a stop using the F1 off a Saturn 5. There's so much going on here that the casual observer doesn't appreciate. The Soyuz rocket has 32 thrust chambers and is considered one of the most successful rockets in history. 

[Ags]

6 hours ago, SamAndrew said:

The lack of flame diverter meant the rebound from the ground was most likely what took out the 4 engines initially, and further damage probably caused the failure of the other engines in flight and eventual loss of control. 

That may be true, but when the top stage lifts off from the Moon or Mars, there will be no flame diverter...

[maw lod qan]

Although everyone hoped it would be a complete success, I believe everyone knew it would end up at RUD!

His comment, as long as it doesn't destroy the pad, clearly shows he wants to get the next one out there with things fixed from this lesson.

Like @stu said, E. Musk's way of thinking has not just NASA, but all of the subcontractors wringing their hands and wiping sweat from their foreheads.

When this monster reaches orbit, Boeing and the other big names from the past just might be finished in the space race.

Saving as much from every launch that can be saved, right down to catching the nose cone fairings in a net mounted on a ship, to thinking of methane possibly being harvested on other planets to refuel the space craft, we are looking at the future.

Somewhere in the past, I bet someone made the comment, you might land something in microgravity, but land it back on Earth is impossible! That's what oceans are for!

[SteveNickolls]

Taken after lift off yesterday-

 

Oops-

 

Cheers,

Steve

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by SteveNickolls

[Macavity]

9 hours ago, Stu said:

 It must be amazing to be amongst the engineers actually achieving this stuff! Great fun, although I bet they put the hours in!

Heheh. Even more amazing, if you arrive in work and find no longer employed - by Email... or someone has deleted your ID? 😛
I suppose I still believe in a bit of... "Cheerful irreverence" re. the legion of *celebrities*... people who can "Do no wrong" etc.
I can/do celebrate the achievement of his "back room boys", but I just cannot relate to some of the public adulation of Elon?

Why do people LOVE (and defend!) Elon Musk... Sabine Hossenfelder... Brian Cox... Uhm... John Campbell? lol.
I think it is an interesting question. Some of e.g. the "Quora" pundits do provide some illumination...
The "American Dream"? "Freedom of Speech"? (I would never disagree with an Elon Fan!)
Someone suggested "to drive up Tesla Shares"... A "Doge" or something? lol.

The ultimate irony is that some of these people actually DO GOOD!
Do "Heros" need to be 100% good? It's a Philosophical thing?
I am getting tired of listening to their "Fanboys"! 😅

Hey, since it's everywhere else?!? lol. 🤣

Edited April 21, 2023 by Macavity

[scotty38]

2 hours ago, Ags said:

That may be true, but when the top stage lifts off from the Moon or Mars, there will be no flame diverter...

I would assume due to lower gravity and a lot less weight to lift it will be far less important 

[Mr Spock]

4 minutes ago, Macavity said:

Why do people LOVE (and defend!) Elon Musk...

Curious question. Why do people also hate people like Musk and others. Successful people always attract opposites like this. Unfortunately a lot of people hate for no real reason and that always puzzles me. As long as they remember when they visit SGL we don't allow personal attacks no matter how you feel about someone.

Anyway, back to the positive. Hopefully this test (failure?) is just another step on the road to success. We need a number of successful space programs if we are to explore the wonders of the solar system. I just wish there were more opportunities for us to be out there. We need to explore what's going on with various moons; we need to get back to Pluto with an orbiter; we need to grab some comet parts. There is so much to exploration to get excited about - just a shame I'm too old to see some of it come to fruition 

[Stuart1971]

Just my twopeneth, but Instead of wasting all this money trying to get big chunks of pointless metal into space, maybe they should spend there money and make the world a better place first….then after that who knows….just a thought….👍🏻

[Macavity]

13 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

Curious question. Why do people also hate people like Musk and others. Successful people always attract opposites like this. Unfortunately a lot of people hate for no real reason and that always puzzles me. As long as they remember when they visit SGL we don't allow personal attacks no matter how you feel about someone.

But it is a FAIR question though? I am relieved to find a certain number of people are ALSO asking it... 😎
But this/mine is not a personal attack? But words have power... "Back to the positive"?!? 😱
I do agree, e.g. some of his critics should... "learn more about rocketry"! lol. 🤣
(Maybe there are some genuine Rocketeers here!!!)

Edited April 21, 2023 by Macavity

[Elp]

You can't really compare the likes of Nasa or many other space agencies to spacex, primarily because of the way they're funded. NASA is mostly government funded so they have to justify their spend and allocate it accordingly, spacex is privately and commercially funded headed by someone whom likes to make noise in the media so have more freedom to do what they want. I think this is why they've made so much progress so quickly as they wish to further commercialise and reap the rewards from being able to make money from their ventures in future before anyone else in a similar position. Just imagine how many starlink satellites they could release with just one of these rocket launches considering how much payload they're designed to carry and can charge others accordingly for their equipment. It's a business at the end of the day.

[Mr Spock]

As far a commercial aspects go, I'm sure Musk must have watched "Moon Zero Two" at some point 

[scotty38]

19 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Just my twopeneth, but Instead of wasting all this money trying to get big chunks of pointless metal into space, maybe they should spend there money and make the world a better place first….then after that who knows….just a thought….👍🏻

Fundamentally I couldn't possibly argue with this sentiment but how, who, what, where would this happen? I mean we can't even get a few hundred folk in Westminster to agree on anything much less something that would benefit the world....

 

Edit - I suppose Elon could give Greta the money????

Edited April 21, 2023 by scotty38

[DaveS]

I'm conflicted about Musk. On the one hand I applaud what he's doing to make space travel affordable and sustainable, but on the other his Starlink junk just annoys the heck out of me, though I can see that he needs the money to fund Starship etc.

Like I say, no simple answer. 

[Stuart1971]

7 minutes ago, scotty38 said:

Fundamentally I couldn't possibly argue with this sentiment but how, who, what, where would this happen? I mean we can't even get a few hundred folk in Westminster to agree on anything much less something that would benefit the world....

 

Edit - I suppose Elon could give Greta the money????

Very true, and I don’t have the answer, but what benefit to 99.9999% of the people on this earth, is getting a big rocket into space going to have, absolutely none whatsoever, an absolute pointless task, but he has the money to waste…at least his starlink venture was helping many people, as much as it’s a pain for us astrophotographers….but this latest stuff, is a case of “Boys and there toys”

[DaveS]

32 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Just my twopeneth, but Instead of wasting all this money trying to get big chunks of pointless metal into space, maybe they should spend there money and make the world a better place first….then after that who knows….just a thought….👍🏻

Point one: it isn't a waste.

Point two: what Musk has spent is chicken feed compared to what would be needed.