15mm Panoptic

[NGC 1502]

 

Just a note to mention that there’s a rarely seen for sale 15mm Panoptic for £165 at ENS Birmingham.

Wondering if it will get snapped up or hang around.......so much competition about, including from TeleVue.......

Ed.

[John]

Not the most popular Panoptic IMHO - that one is probably a bit overpriced.

There was one on e.bay a few weeks back for £99.00. Maybe it's the same one ?

[emadmoussa]

Ah, the good ol' pretentious, astronomically priced Televue. 

[John]

11 minutes ago, emadmoussa said:

Ah, the good ol' pretentious, astronomically priced Televue. 

All of them or just the Panoptic 15mm ?

[emadmoussa]

8 minutes ago, John said:

All of them or just the Panoptic 15mm ?

The brand...yes. 

 

[John]

13 minutes ago, emadmoussa said:

The brand...yes. 

 

They are expensive, I agree. Not pretentious though, IMHO.

 

[emadmoussa]

1 minute ago, John said:

They are expensive, I agree. Not pretentious though, IMHO.

 

There's a lot of psychology in branding, Televue is perhaps the astronomy equivalent of Apple. No doubt they're high quality, but so are Explore Scientific and Pentax and they're significantly more affordable. 

[John]

But where does pretentious come into it ?

 

[John]

Thinking again, this is a "heads up" thread for a particular eyepiece so not really the place for a "Tele Vue vs the world" debate - there are plenty of those around the internet already ! 

Thanks for the heads up Ed - you are quite right that you don't see many Pan 15's for sale

[Highburymark]

I love mine. But up against a nearly new Delite for around the same price? Delite every time.

[Louis D]

I think the short eye relief of the 15mm Panoptic helped to seal its fate.  That, and all the affordable 14mm to 16mm 82 degree eyepieces that came on the market over the last 15 years.  Any other ideas on why TV discontinued it?

[NGC 1502]

15 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Any other ideas on why TV discontinued it?

 

Perhaps the introduction of the Radians with a comfortable 20mm eye relief and 60 degree fov was a reason 15 Pan was discontinued. But only Al or David Nagler could give the full story.  I have looked through a 15 Pan and thought it was a very nice and compact lightweight eyepiece, still desirable today.  I also found the eye relief was not a problem as long as the user is not wearing glasses.

Ed. 

[rwilkey]

I thought about the 15 Pan at one time following my love for the 24 & 19mm, however, I am now sure it would not have lived up to my expectations.  I bought the incredible and compact 16mm Nagler T5 instead. 

[NGC 1502]

7 hours ago, rwilkey said:

I thought about the 15 Pan at one time following my love for the 24 & 19mm, however, I am now sure it would not have lived up to my expectations.  I bought the incredible and compact 16mm Nagler T5 instead. 

 

Indeed the N16 T5 is a lovely compact EP, probably more desirable than the Pan15.   Never owned either, but as mentioned I’ve looked through a Pan15, no problem.  How do you find the 10mm ER of the N16, same as is listed for the Pan15 ?  

I own the N7 T1, and the N3-6 zoom.  They also both have 10mm ER and I have no problems with with either. None of them eyeglass friendly of course.

Ed.

 

 

[Space Hopper]

On 09/12/2018 at 20:26, emadmoussa said:

Ah, the good ol' pretentious, astronomically priced Televue. 

But you get what you pay for.

[emadmoussa]

22 minutes ago, Tubby Bear said:

But you get what you pay for.

Or, you may get what you overpay for. No doubt Televues are top-notch, fantastic eyepieces, but the price far far exceeds the production process, the return of investment is astronomically high. As I said, Apple is notorious for that and it too has particular, sometimes fanatic fans, some kind of a cult, or even an identity. No offense is meant here, only a common description. Honestly, I compared Delos with ES and couldn't see any difference. Surely, I'm not as experienced as many members on this forum, but I wouldn't call myself blind I even compared a Panoptic with a Hyperion, and the difference was very subtle in favour of the Panoptic, of course. But it wasn't worth 4 times the price, that's for sure. 

[NGC 1502]

2 hours ago, emadmoussa said:

Or, you may get what you overpay for. No doubt Televues are top-notch, fantastic eyepieces, but the price far far exceeds the production process, the return of investment is astronomically high. As I said, Apple is notorious for that and it too has particular, sometimes fanatic fans, some kind of a cult, or even an identity. No offense is meant here, only a common description. Honestly, I compared Delos with ES and couldn't see any difference. Surely, I'm not as experienced as many members on this forum, but I wouldn't call myself blind I even compared a Panoptic with a Hyperion, and the difference was very subtle in favour of the Panoptic, of course. But it wasn't worth 4 times the price, that's for sure. 

 

Your’re quite right that everything from TeleVue is very expensive indeed.  Part of that may be to recoup extensive development costs, uncompromising manufacturing costs, and don’t forget their 100% quality control.  Other makers have copied, and some have excellent products, no doubt about it.  But TV live in the real world, they’re only too well aware of the competition, they know that if the price is too high then sales fall away and they’re out of business.  Only the buyer can really say if something is overpriced.  Personally I wouldn’t buy a Rolls Royce, I’m happy with a Ford, but if someone else wants a Roller, then as long as it’s paid for with honest money, good luck to them.

You mentioned ‘no offence meant’..........none taken ?

Cheers from Ed.

[rwilkey]

17 hours ago, NGC 1502 said:

 

Indeed the N16 T5 is a lovely compact EP, probably more desirable than the Pan15.   Never owned either, but as mentioned I’ve looked through a Pan15, no problem.  How do you find the 10mm ER of the N16, same as is listed for the Pan15 ?  

I own the N7 T1, and the N3-6 zoom.  They also both have 10mm ER and I have no problems with with either. None of them eyeglass friendly of course.

Ed.

 

 

Hi Ed, I own all three of the ones you mention, not had chance to try the N7T6 yet as it's fairly new to me, but find the ER on both the N16T5 and the N3-6 zoom well-suited to me.

[Space Hopper]

23 hours ago, emadmoussa said:

Or, you may get what you overpay for. No doubt Televues are top-notch, fantastic eyepieces, but the price far far exceeds the production process, the return of investment is astronomically high. As I said, Apple is notorious for that and it too has particular, sometimes fanatic fans, some kind of a cult, or even an identity. No offense is meant here, only a common description. Honestly, I compared Delos with ES and couldn't see any difference. Surely, I'm not as experienced as many members on this forum, but I wouldn't call myself blind I even compared a Panoptic with a Hyperion, and the difference was very subtle in favour of the Panoptic, of course. But it wasn't worth 4 times the price, that's for sure. 

Fair comments, but once i'd tried my first Tele-vue eyepiece i was hooked.

If used ES stuff before : our Astro society has a few.

The ES 30 / 82 we have is a beauty.

However, i binoview and i think Televue Panoptics in particular are very well suited to that.

The 24s are my favourites like Ed above.

The are quite superb, and are Televue's best selling eyepiece for a reason.

I'm sure ES eyepieces are just as nice, but they are a non starter for me as they have those wretched undercut barrels.

 

The OP mentions the 15 Pans, and i've always fancied a look through a pair.

But they never had a good reputation, which is why they were discontinued i should think.

 

 

[Moonshane]

I really liked mine but it seemed extravagant to have a pair of 15mm TV plossls as well and I preferred the plossls in the binoviewers. 

I didn't like the 16mm T5 for the same reason I can away from T5 TVs in general (and Ethos/Delos) - off axis false colour. I'd agree between a 15mm Panoptic and a 15mm Delite the Delite would win for me every time.

[Highburymark]

On 12/12/2018 at 19:53, Moonshane said:

I really liked mine but it seemed extravagant to have a pair of 15mm TV plossls as well and I preferred the plossls in the binoviewers. 

You're probably right Shane - but I keep telling myself how can something that small be extravagant?

 

 

[Alan White]

I loved the 15mm Panoptic that I tried as did Ed NGC1502 when I had one on loan.
The one at ENS was top dollar price and I felt a little expensive, so I passed, bearing in mind I have an ES 16mm 68.

Someone has bought it though and it has gone off ENS now.

Must say Televue has not marketed me into buying, the views presented in my scopes have done so.
That was against, Pentax, Explore Scientific, Vixen etc. and I have a case of green on black plus Explore Scientific and Vixen.
It has nil to do about being a brand, I don't do brands, ever.
I buy quality kit, what I like and how I like it and it is a mixed bag.

[Paul73]

ENS pricing is always towards the top of the 2nd hand bracket. But, they are a business, so need to make a profit. If people buy, then their pricing is ok?

Re. The Panoptics. I had a 24mm which wasn’t particularly well corrected (same as the others that I’ve looked through). But, the viewing was comfortable and the image engaging. Loved it! Same with the TV Plossls. A design so far behind the times that a critical evaluation will not be kind. But, the clarity and viewing experience is utterly charming.

Paul

[NGC 1502]

On 29/12/2018 at 10:12, Paul73 said:

ENS pricing is always towards the top of the 2nd hand bracket. But, they are a business, so need to make a profit. If people buy, then their pricing is ok?

Re. The Panoptics. I had a 24mm which wasn’t particularly well corrected (same as the others that I’ve looked through). But, the viewing was comfortable and the image engaging. Loved it! Same with the TV Plossls. A design so far behind the times that a critical evaluation will not be kind. But, the clarity and viewing experience is utterly charming.

Paul

 

Agreed that ENS pricing is at the top end.  But I’ve found that their statements regarding condition to be honest,  it’s straightforward to purchase, and it’s easy to check prices to decide if we’re ok with that.

Regarding correction of TV eyepieces. Even top end eyepieces like TV won’t correct for all aberrations like coma for which a parracor will mostly fix.

Ed.

 

[Cjg]

I have a 15 Panoptic, purchased second hand. Love the views and the portability.   My two most used eyepieces are a 24mm Panopticon and the 9mm Nagler. Purchased after being loaned one to look through with my Tak....the view was breathtaking.  Expensive, compared to other brands, perhaps. Bear in mind that ES etc cloned TV designs for their own range.  Pretentious, interested to know why you think that?

Think £165 was pricey, but as no longer in production, the chances of coming across one diminishes each year. 

Chris