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alacant

migration windows to linux

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20 hours ago, alacant said:

Unfortunately, Linux documentation is written by coders for experts and is quite often out of date and inaccurate. But hey, perfect for cloudy nights:)

That is not my experience at all. I've found what documentation I need mostly pretty easy to follow. The "mostly" is reference to the very odd occasions when I've resorted to configuring something via the command line. Even then a search on the many Linux forums will inevitably come up with instructions that will either talk me through it or its a simple copy/paste of commands. Even though I've been playing with Linux a long time, I'm no expert  and I've found it easy to use and infinitely less frustrating than recent incarnations of Windows.

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Would really advise trying a Linux install on an older PC or one that won't harm if it goes t!!s up if you have never done one before. If you don't know what you are doing messing about with bios and/or boot configs can cock up a perfectly good computer, I speak from experience. 🤔.

It does however give you experience on sorting pc problems 😉.

Steve

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32 minutes ago, Gasman said:

Would really advise trying a Linux install on an older PC or one that won't harm if it goes t!!s up if you have never done one before. If you don't know what you are doing messing about with bios and/or boot configs can cock up a perfectly good computer, I speak from experience. 🤔.

It does however give you experience on sorting pc problems 😉.

Steve

This is how I started out with Linux, many years ago,when It wasn't quite a s "friendly" as it is now, when even trying to get a printer to work with it was a head scratching job. There was also that fear of breaking what was working OK, so an old PC where you could simply format everything and start again and run the BIOS back to default was good! If anyone has an old machine and, as has been said, some linux distros will work with a very meagre spec its a perfect way to have a dabble with something new. That said, things are much easier than they were, If I fancy a go with a different distro, I first  load it onto a bootable memory stick and play around with it for a few days to see how good it is and to make sure it will work with all my kit, only then, if  I like it, will I dual boot it alongside my everyday setup.     

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, wornish said:

Installing KStar next.

Excellent progress. Do post how you do. 

One thing which hits you with Kstars is its logic. Everything is where you'd expect. The other big plus I found compared to ascom is that it has everything from mount control, imaging, plate solving and guiding all in the same app. There's no more apt, PhD,  eqmod etc to have to install separately and get talking to each other. 

Cheers and good luck.

Edited by alacant

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2 hours ago, Redscouse said:

Try Linux Mint Mate. The GUI is much more user friendly

In fact I'd planned to download both flavours and compare.

I stopped at that point because of some horror stories with early Yoga 2s. If I understand correctly, one needs to switch off secure boot and fast boot, but this also turned off wi-fi. Trouble is, wi-fi became switched off permanently, even after re-instating the initial conditions. Apparently this was a problem with UEFI, which had to be updated. Began to get cold feet at that point!

Ian

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Still not a easy step but depending on your OS version and PC spec(plenty memory reqd)  you could use a virtual Linux to get the feel. However its been some time since I have done this to know if Kstars etc would run ok under Virtualbox  - guide on how to and some VM's here https://www.osboxes.org/guide/  Kstars did run under  Luduntu Virtual Machine (VM) perhaps someone who has done this more recently can comment .   

In effect you start Windows (10 for example) as normal no changes required and then run the VM under its controller (e.g. VirtualBox) - So it wouldn't screw up (tech term) your Windows Bios etc.

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Mint is easy to use and install as a dual boot with windows  but it is no replacement, there is just too much it cant do and most of the big boys (software wise) wont touch it.

Alan

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3 hours ago, alacant said:

Excellent progress. Do post how you do. 

One thing which hits you with Kstars is its logic. Everything is where you'd expect. The other big plus I found compared to ascom is that it has everything from mount control, imaging, plate solving and guiding all in the same app. There's no more apt, PhD,  eqmod etc to have to install separately and get talking to each other. 

Cheers and good luck.

KStars installed great and started ok. Will try connecting to my mount and camera tomorrow.  Got to say very impressed so far.

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Kstars software is just amazing.  After finally choosing the correct mount type i.e. EQMOD.  ( and NOT the Skywatchers alt/az 😓 ) , my mount connected and slewed perfectly.  My ZWO camera also connected and worked straight away.

The whole experience of switching from Windows 10 to Ubuntu linux and using Kstars was way easier than I expected.  Kstars seems very capable and logical to use.

Got to play with it now to do some actual astrophotography.

You certainly don't need to be a computer geek to create a dual boot system the whole process is not that  difficult.  

Take it in easy steps and make sure you have backed up your system first.

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Posted (edited)

 

19 hours ago, The Admiral said:

Apparently this was a problem with UEFI,

Been using dual boot for years on several systems. Never had any issues turning off/on fast/secure boot. (and the newer versions are UEFI friendly)

18 hours ago, Alien 13 said:

Mint is easy to use and install as a dual boot with windows  but it is no replacement, there is just too much it cant do and most of the big boys (software wise) wont touch it.

Alan

I agree with all of the above. For someone wishing to have a first look I think Mate is one of the friendliest for the user. 
Once they get to know the basics, as you and I both know, there are a plethora of flavours available depending upon what the user wants to achieve. 

Edited by Redscouse
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On 29/06/2018 at 19:40, alacant said:

Excellent progress. Do post how you do. 

One thing which hits you with Kstars is its logic. Everything is where you'd expect. The other big plus I found compared to ascom is that it has everything from mount control, imaging, plate solving and guiding all in the same app. There's no more apt, PhD,  eqmod etc to have to install separately and get talking to each other. 

Cheers and good luck.

 

23 hours ago, wornish said:

Kstars software is just amazing.  After finally choosing the correct mount type i.e. EQMOD.  ( and NOT the Skywatchers alt/az 😓 ) , my mount connected and slewed perfectly.  My ZWO camera also connected and worked straight away.

The whole experience of switching from Windows 10 to Ubuntu linux and using Kstars was way easier than I expected.  Kstars seems very capable and logical to use.

Got to play with it now to do some actual astrophotography.

You certainly don't need to be a computer geek to create a dual boot system the whole process is not that  difficult.  

Take it in easy steps and make sure you have backed up your system first.

Yep, indi/kstars is wonderful, because everything is "under the same roof". I use it on a raspberry pi clone, so I don't need to take my laptop outside. Support is also excellent, from the indilib forum. The only problem is that once you have it, you want to build a fully automated obsy, to use its full potential.

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11 hours ago, wimvb said:

 

Yep, indi/kstars is wonderful, because everything is "under the same roof". I use it on a raspberry pi clone, so I don't need to take my laptop outside. Support is also excellent, from the indilib forum. The only problem is that once you have it, you want to build a fully automated obsy, to use its full potential.

Yes I am beginning  to realise that.  I will resist 🤥

I note there is also a Mac and a Windows version.  The Windows version relies on ascom drivers  and other stuff so its not as easy to use as the Linux version which as you say gives you everything under one roof.  Wish I had found out about this earlier.

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7 minutes ago, wornish said:

Windows version relies on ascom drivers

There's a Windows version of the indi server; you can lose ascom completely. HTH.

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52 minutes ago, alacant said:

There's a Windows version of the indi server; you can lose ascom completely. HTH.

Do you know if this supports the same drivers as the linux version?

Btw, the windows version is called (surprise, surprise) windi. Actually it was, it's now called INDI Server for Windows. And I have no idea if support is at the same level as for the linux version.

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AFAIK Kstars/Ekos on Windows needs to talk with an INDI server for full functionality. The ASCOM interface uses an INDI wrapper around ASCOM which provides only basic functionality. 

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8 hours ago, kens said:

AFAIK Kstars/Ekos on Windows needs to talk with an INDI server for full functionality. The ASCOM interface uses an INDI wrapper around ASCOM which provides only basic functionality. 

Thats what I found out when I tried it.  You dont get the same functionality or choice of equipment.   Kstars itself seems to be at the same release level as far as I can tell.

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This is from cloudmakers.eu, the developers of indi server for windows:

INDI Server for Windows is a wrapper and INDI server for ASCOM drivers.

Still only ascom. I thought they had come further with development. But I guess, for someone who doesn't want to leave windows, and still wants the functionality of ekos/kstars, this might be an alternative. As long as there are ascom drivers for the hardware.

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22 hours ago, wimvb said:

Do you know if this supports the same drivers as the linux version

Don't know, sorry. I suppose it would depend if it's possible to build indilib on windows. It looks ATM like the indi server needs to be run on a Linux box with a windows box as a client running kstars.  By no means an expert...

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On 02/07/2018 at 00:37, kens said:

AFAIK Kstars/Ekos on Windows needs to talk with an INDI server for full functionality. The ASCOM interface uses an INDI wrapper around ASCOM which provides only basic functionality. 

Yes, found that out to.

2 hours ago, alacant said:

Don't know, sorry. I suppose it would depend if it's possible to build indilib on windows. It looks ATM like the indi server needs to be run on a Linux box with a windows box as a client running kstars.  By no means an expert...

Indilib is linux based. Windi (indi server for windows) is only a wrapper that uses the ordinary windows ascom drivers, as @kens wrote.

You can run indiserver and ekos/kstars on the same (linux) machine, and scrub windows completely. This works even with an ordinary raspberry pi.

If you run the server on a Pi, and ekos/kstars on windows, you lose control if the connection is broken. But if you run everything on the same machine, and control that from a remote desktop such as windows remote desktop or Teamviewer, a lost connection will not stop a sequence. If you lose the connection, you simply set up a new one.

I'm looking into this atm. I plan to use one Rock64 (raspberry clone with usb3) for mount control and guiding, and one for focusing, image acquisition and ekos/kstars. By using two computers, I can avoid having to use a usb hub.

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On 01/07/2018 at 11:23, wimvb said:

indi/kstars is wonderful

Support: problem connecting to phd2 from ekos reported Wednesday evening. Fixed in good time for Thursday evening's astro-dark. 

Big thanks to Jasem@indilib and Andy@PHD2

Now that's what I call service:)

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26 minutes ago, alacant said:

Support: problem connecting to phd2 from ekos reported Wednesday evening. Fixed in good time for Thursday evening's astro-dark. 

Big thanks to Jasem@indilib and Andy@PHD2

Now that's what I call service:)

I agree, service is excellent. Many a commercial business could learn from that. When I switched from raspberry pi (32 bit) to Rock (64 bit), it only took a few days before software was available in 64 b after I made the request.

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I would suggest to start with installing Linux in a virtual machine.  I use the free VMware workstation player for that. Install it under Win10, and download a Linux ISO and install it in the player. Then if you install the included VMware tools you can also copy and paste between Windows and Linux. The virtual machine itself  you can copy to the computer in your obervatory and run it there again under Win10 or what you have or give to a friend.

By this you can try different Linux flavors and just delete copy or keep as as many as you wish or run even in parallel. (typical disksize  required 10 gbytes, 6 gbytes minimum)  A computer with 4 gbyte ram or even 2 gbytes will work fine with Win10 and a virtual machine.

For Windows users maybe, a Linux flavor with LXDE  like Lubuntu as interface will be actractive and easier to use.

You could also download and try  "Astronomy Linux ", an Ubuntu with already many astronomy programs installed

The Linux in the virtual machine will be able to control your telescope and have access to internet.  It is  easier to install and experiment then dual boot and removal is easy if you don't like it.

Han

 

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Great, you have convinced me, I am moving. Tonight I have hit the Nth Windows 10 screw up, tonight the windows  button has stopped working. There must have been 12 times so far when I have a clear sky, power up one of a few laptops I use for astronomy, and " Windows is about to enhance your life experience, please wait a few minutes"..... " now rebooting", !windows is installing your updates"......great finished 4 hours later. Now all the camera and ascom drivers have been replaced with "improved", non-working Microsoft one's, again. Oh look. the sun is rising.

I came on here tonight to check on the Linux status and found this.

Being a Debian hardcore Linux user, I'll give it a go.

I will probably still process the data in Windoze, as a lot of software I use is Windoze only.

 

A Question though, are there reliable and usable packages for capture from SX, ZWO and Celestron cameras and filter wheels and SW mounts for DSO and Planetary, with scripting and guiding?

John.

 

 

 

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ZWO \ SW equipment is well catered for, but the SX \ Celestron I'm not sure of.... I just run Indi \ Kstars & it all works for me....

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6 minutes ago, focaldepth said:

Great, you have convinced me, I am moving. Tonight I have hit the Nth Windows 10 screw up, tonight the windows  button has stopped working. There must have been 12 times so far when I have a clear sky, power up one of a few laptops I use for astronomy, and " Windows is about to enhance your life experience, please wait a few minutes"..... " now rebooting", !windows is installing your updates"......great finished 4 hours later. Now all the camera and ascom drivers have been replaced with "improved", non-working Microsoft one's, again. Oh look. the sun is rising.

I came on here tonight to check on the Linux status and found this.

Being a Debian hardcore Linux user, I'll give it a go.

I will probably still process the data in Windoze, as a lot of software I use is Windoze only.

 

A Question though, are there reliable and usable packages for capture from SX, ZWO and Celestron cameras and filter wheels and SW mounts for DSO and Planetary, with scripting and guiding?

John.

 

 

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of linux and indi.

Most hardware is supported. The indi site has a list, and the forum is very helpful.

http://indilib.org/

http://indilib.org/devices/telescopes/celestron.html

http://indilib.org/devices/ccds/starlight-xpress-ccd.html

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